Eurotunnel operator, GetLink offers to subsidise new cross-Channel rail services

trei2k · 6 May 2024

In the Financial Times today, there is an interesting article about GetLink (operator of Eurotunnel) and the steps that they are taking to try to incentivise other operators on board.

Source: https://on.ft.com/3wp5SfC

The operator of the Channel Tunnel has offered €50mn in support to encourage companies to open new cross-Channel rail services to rival Eurostar.

Yann Leriche, Getlink chief executive, said at least five companies were “seriously” interested in starting new passenger trains between the UK and Europe, and that the barriers to entry have decreased in recent years.

Sir Richard Branson’s Virgin Group, a consortium backed by the largest shareholders in Mobico, formerly known as National Express, and Dutch start-up Heuro have all said they are considering launching services, and Leriche said there were at least two other contenders.

“We have a lot of room, including at peak times. I think there is a potential to have more high speed trains and freight trains,” he told the Financial Times.

Getlink, formerly known as Eurotunnel, manages and operates the infrastructure of the Channel Tunnel and also operates the LeShuttle passenger and freight trains.

Leriche believes there is space for more than one new operator, and the money could be split between new entrants. Overall, about 400 trains a day use the tunnel, which has capacity for 1,000. The actual usage is below the forecasts when the tunnel was opened 30 years ago.

Getlink and HS1, which operates the high-speed lines from Kent to London, have long pushed for more operators to launch services.

Leriche said Getlink had earmarked at least €50mn to spend over the next five years in direct subsidies to support any new operator launching a service.

The money would be available once the new service was launched to help operators with the initial high running costs of launching a new train service. Getlink previously supported Eurostar when it began nonstop trains between London and Amsterdam.

“There are still hurdles [to launching a new service], but they used to be quite high and now they are very limited,” Leriche said.

Among the biggest challenges to any new entrant is the cost of ordering modified trains to comply with the tunnel’s stringent safety rules, including increased fire resistance.

Leriche said this critical hurdle had been cleared after Alstom’s new TGV trains were certified to run through the tunnel, meaning a new operator could buy trains off the shelf, “massively” reducing expenditure.

Getlink has also worked with national regulators to streamline the regulatory process to certify new operators, and believes there is demand for 4mn passenger journeys a year from Germany and Switzerland, on top of Eurostar’s current routes from London to Paris, Brussels and Amsterdam.

Evolyn, a Spanish-led project backed by the billionaire Cosmen industrialist family, an investor in Mobico, has announced a preliminary agreement, but not a final deal, to buy new trains from Alstom. Mobico itself held talks over joining the consortium but opted not to.

Separately, Leriche said he was confident there would be no significant disruption to passenger services from the introduction of new EU biometric border controls due to be introduced this year.

The UK’s leading logistics body has warned that Channel ports could “grind to a halt” as a result of the control, which will require passengers to register details including fingerprints at passport control.

Leriche said Getlink had invested €80mn in new border facilities, and has the space to handle the new logistics.

Getlink is also considering opening new inland lorry terminals, to allow vehicles to leapfrog congestion in Kent and northern France.

This would mark a significant shift for the company, which currently only operates stations near the tunnel entrances close to the English Channel.

As Getlink diversifies its business, it has also held talks with the UK and French governments over adding more cables to carry electricity to connect energy markets in the UK and the continent.

There are quite a few standout points from the article, aside the fact that they are waving some money at bringing in some new competition.

"Leriche said this critical hurdle had been cleared after Alstom’s new TGV trains were certified to run through the tunnel, meaning a new operator could buy trains off the shelf, “massively” reducing expenditure."

That is interesting news that the new TGVs have been certified to run through the tunnel. I assume they will be able to use all the existing facilities connected to HS1 in the UK? St. Pancras, Stratford International(?), Ebbsfleet International and Ashford International?

"Overall, about 400 trains a day use the tunnel, which has capacity for 1,000"

I am surprised that GetLink don't run more of their own shuttles, there appears to be the demand - is it rolling stock that limits them? I thought GetLink had around 57 locos?

RailUK Forums

Sir Felix Pole · 6 May 2024

'Inland lorry terminals to avoid congestion in Kent and Northern France' is interesting - starting the Shuttle at Ashford or piggyback trailers from somewhere like Barking perhaps?

LNW-GW Joint · 7 May 2024

trei2k said:
There are quite a few standout points from the article, aside the fact that they are waving some money at bringing in some new competition.
"Leriche said this critical hurdle had been cleared after Alstom’s new TGV trains were certified to run through the tunnel, meaning a new operator could buy trains off the shelf, “massively” reducing expenditure."
That is interesting news that the new TGVs have been certified to run through the tunnel. I assume they will be able to use all the existing facilities connected to HS1 in the UK? St. Pancras, Stratford International(?), Ebbsfleet International and Ashford International?

If they mean the TGV-M/Avelia Horizon or derivative, I doubt it has Channel Tunnel certification.
Probably it means with the revised tunnel regulations they hope to obtain certification within the present TGV-M modular design parameters rather than requiring a special build just for the tunnel.

Peter Mugridge · 7 May 2024

Sir Felix Pole said:
'Inland lorry terminals to avoid congestion in Kent and Northern France' is interesting - starting the Shuttle at Ashford or piggyback trailers from somewhere like Barking perhaps?

I don't think the loading gauge on HS1 is generous enough for that is it?

At least not with the standard shuttle vehicles; they could of course build some to match the line but I don't think they could then get them big enough to carry HGVs?

Trainbike46 · 8 May 2024

Peter Mugridge said:
I don't think the loading gauge on HS1 is generous enough for that is it?

At least not with the standard shuttle vehicles; they could of course build some to match the line but I don't think they could then get them big enough to carry HGVs?

They probably could; In europe there are trains that can take lorries and fit within the loading gauge, and I believe HS1 was built to a european loading gauge

trei2k said:
In the Financial Times today, there is an interesting article about GetLink (operator of Eurotunnel) and the steps that they are taking to try to incentivise other operators on board.

Source: https://on.ft.com/3wp5SfC

There are quite a few standout points from the article, aside the fact that they are waving some money at bringing in some new competition.

"Leriche said this critical hurdle had been cleared after Alstom’s new TGV trains were certified to run through the tunnel, meaning a new operator could buy trains off the shelf, “massively” reducing expenditure."

That is interesting news that the new TGVs have been certified to run through the tunnel. I assume they will be able to use all the existing facilities connected to HS1 in the UK? St. Pancras, Stratford International(?), Ebbsfleet International and Ashford International?

"Overall, about 400 trains a day use the tunnel, which has capacity for 1,000"

I am surprised that GetLink don't run more of their own shuttles, there appears to be the demand - is it rolling stock that limits them? I thought GetLink had around 57 locos?

Definitely an interesting article; I note they state that they supported the Eurostar service to Amsterdam in a similar manner. This could therefore lead to more direct destinations, as well as competition on existing routes.

Direct London-Geneva or London-Basel SNCF services maybe?

poffle · 8 May 2024

I've thought that a direct container train from e.g. Lille to Dublin would be a future possibility. Would need a train ferry between Holyhead and Dublin, gauge changing container wagons gauge changing facilities in Dublin.

Would eliminate all the need for customs checks that has killed off the lorries transiting GB. Potentially faster than the Ireland - France ferry routes for freight to Benelux, Germany and points east.

I know Stena have experience with train ferries in Scandinavia and in Ireland there is government push to reduce truck movements from Dublin Port. Probably EU funding available.

Definitely much more in the speculative category than anything imminent.

RT4038 · 8 May 2024

poffle said:
I've thought that a direct container train from e.g. Lille to Dublin would be a future possibility. Would need a train ferry between Holyhead and Dublin, gauge changing container wagons gauge changing facilities in Dublin.

Would eliminate all the need for customs checks that has killed off the lorries transiting GB. Potentially faster than the Ireland - France ferry routes for freight to Benelux, Germany and points east.

I know Stena have experience with train ferries in Scandinavia and in Ireland there is government push to reduce truck movements from Dublin Port. Probably EU funding available.

Definitely much more in the speculative category than anything imminent.

Why would a container being conveyed by rail across the UK from France to Holyhead have any less customs checks than those on a lorry?

peteb · 8 May 2024

trei2k said:
In the Financial Times today, there is an interesting article about GetLink (operator of Eurotunnel) and the steps that they are taking to try to incentivise other operators on board.

Source: https://on.ft.com/3wp5SfC

There are quite a few standout points from the article, aside the fact that they are waving some money at bringing in some new competition.

"Leriche said this critical hurdle had been cleared after Alstom’s new TGV trains were certified to run through the tunnel, meaning a new operator could buy trains off the shelf, “massively” reducing expenditure."

That is interesting news that the new TGVs have been certified to run through the tunnel. I assume they will be able to use all the existing facilities connected to HS1 in the UK? St. Pancras, Stratford International(?), Ebbsfleet International and Ashford International?

"Overall, about 400 trains a day use the tunnel, which has capacity for 1,000"

I am surprised that GetLink don't run more of their own shuttles, there appears to be the demand - is it rolling stock that limits them? I thought GetLink had around 57 locos?

A big incentive for any new operator will be paths that better connect to onward services at Lille and Brussels. The most significant onwards connections from Brussels appear to be Amsterdam and Cologne. Cologne ICE (DB) connections are currently ~20 minutes with Eurostar, but really need to be ~30 minutes to make it a more reliable option/connection. An operator that could secure a better arrival slot with cooperation from DB (through ticketing etc) must surely be a major worry for Eurostar, who have until now operated on a take it or leave it basis.

Wolfie · 8 May 2024

RT4038 said:
Why would a container being conveyed by rail across the UK from France to Holyhead have any less customs checks than those on a lorry?

While necessary customs checks might get done in a different location they'd certainly still be done.

Gag Halfrunt · 8 May 2024

poffle said:
I've thought that a direct container train from e.g. Lille to Dublin would be a future possibility. Would need a train ferry between Holyhead and Dublin, gauge changing container wagons gauge changing facilities in Dublin.

Alternatively you could just load the containers onto a ship.

Cloud Strife · 8 May 2024

Sir Felix Pole said:
'Inland lorry terminals to avoid congestion in Kent and Northern France' is interesting - starting the Shuttle at Ashford or piggyback trailers from somewhere like Barking perhaps?

There's an argument that Ebbsfleet International would be ideal for this purpose. There's plenty of space there to build a truck terminal. Lille is trickier, but there's a good site to the west of the city where a terminal could be built.

However, the sticking point might be the slow speed of the trains. As far as I can tell, they would be limited to 140km/h on the LGV Nord/HS1, which would cause serious bottlenecks for other traffic.

ac6000cw · 8 May 2024

Gag Halfrunt said:
Alternatively you could just load the containers onto a ship.

Yes, exactly.

It's the reason international shipping containers were invented and are 'intermodal' i.e. can be easily carried on different transport modes and swapped between them quickly.

RT4038 · 8 May 2024

peteb said:
A big incentive for any new operator will be paths that better connect to onward services at Lille and Brussels. The most significant onwards connections from Brussels appear to be Amsterdam and Cologne. Cologne ICE (DB) connections are currently ~20 minutes with Eurostar, but really need to be ~30 minutes to make it a more reliable option/connection. An operator that could secure a better arrival slot with cooperation from DB (through ticketing etc) must surely be a major worry for Eurostar, who have until now operated on a take it or leave it basis.

I doubt it is a major worry. The market for such travel is relatively small, and the DB experience somewhat patchy to attract significant numbers. Not much likelihood of this being big business I think. Quite possibly the 'paths that better connect' are simply not available anyway.

peteb · 8 May 2024

RT4038 said:
I doubt it is a major worry. The market for such travel is relatively small, and the DB experience somewhat patchy to attract significant numbers. Not much likelihood of this being big business I think. Quite possibly the 'paths that better connect' are simply not available anyway.

There were several passengers on my train to Brussels who were fretting about missing the onwards DB Cologne-bound ICE due to depart 20 after our arrival, as we arrived about 5 late, then all got stuck in a horrid traffic jam of suitcases etc queuing for the lifts down to the connections tunnel under Midi. And these were just in my carriage.

furnessvale · 8 May 2024

Two points.

It will be interesting to see how those subsidies stack up when contested in court by existing operators.

Secondly, if they have lots of spare paths they could always try reducing the eye watering charges which deter classical railfreight and containers from using the tunnel.

Trainbike46 · 8 May 2024

furnessvale said:
Two points.

It will be interesting to see how those subsidies stack up when contested in court by existing operators.

The fact that eurostar received them for the Amsterdam service suggests that they are likely to be legally okay (and would reduce the credibility of any unfair competition claims from Eurostar)

furnessvale said:
Secondly, if they have lots of spare paths they could always try reducing the eye watering charges which deter classical railfreight and containers from using the tunnel.

furnessvale · 8 May 2024

Trainbike46 said:
The fact that eurostar received them for the Amsterdam service suggests that they are likely to be legally okay (and would reduce the credibility of any unfair competition claims from Eurostar)

Subsidies for a new route are one thing. Subsidies for a competitor on an existing route are something else. I do not know if the latter is the case.

RT4038 · 8 May 2024

peteb said:
There were several passengers on my train to Brussels who were fretting about missing the onwards DB Cologne-bound ICE due to depart 20 after our arrival, as we arrived about 5 late, then all got stuck in a horrid traffic jam of suitcases etc queuing for the lifts down to the connections tunnel under Midi. And these were just in my carriage.

I understand that, but several passengers per carriage is probably not a big % of their business, and I doubt it ever will be.

StephenHunter · 11 May 2024

Wolfie said:
While necessary customs checks might get done in a different location they'd certainly still be done.

This is already happening with lorries on Le Shuttle:

Arrival in Folkestone - Border requirements

Instructions on what happens when arriving in Folkestone with a truck

www.eurotunnelfreight.com

Vehicles with an amber status will be directed to the closest Inland Border Facility located in Sevington, near Ashford, accessed from junction 10a off the M20.

Meerkat · 13 May 2024

Cloud Strife said:
There's an argument that Ebbsfleet International would be ideal for this purpose. There's plenty of space there to build a truck terminal. Lille is trickier, but there's a good site to the west of the city where a terminal could be built.

Not one on a loop like at Folkestone. Looked to see if there was room using the existing junction for the Fawkham link but its a bit hilly round there. If you don't need to loop round then just build the ramps alongside the Fawkham loop and not have to build any new track.

furnessvale said:
It will be interesting to see how those subsidies stack up when contested in court by existing operators.

Is that why they offer subsidies rather than just discounts?

Mgameing123 · 13 May 2024

Hopefully this could help us get more low cost options or maybe more luxury options?

Cloud Strife · 13 May 2024

Meerkat said:
Not one on a loop like at Folkestone. Looked to see if there was room using the existing junction for the Fawkham link but its a bit hilly round there. If you don't need to loop round then just build the ramps alongside the Fawkham loop and not have to build any new track.

I think it would be fine without loops, as there's more than enough place there to load and unload. The infrastructure at Folkestone and Calais is ridiculously overblown, although that design was mostly in anticipation of it being a genuine turn-up-and-go service rather than the airline-type service that it (quickly) became.

I remember having a chat with one old bloke who had been involved in the business planning for the tunnel, and he said quite clearly that the original intention for Le Shuttle was that there wouldn't be pre-booking, you'd just turn up, pay the toll and go as trains would be going frequently. That's why the toll booths (signed as such until very recently) in Folkestone and Calais were designed that way, even down to the LED displays that displayed the fare due.

StephenHunter said:
This is already happening with lorries on Le Shuttle:

The same happens in quite a few places in the EU too. It's a much better system than the old method of checking everyone at the border, especially now that everything is computerised and deposits can be taken and refunded automatically without requiring people to pay them in cash.

signed · 13 May 2024

> Direct London-Geneva or London-Basel SNCF services maybe?

SNCF is the majority stake in Eurostar, depending on call stations, could be a major competition with themselves, which wouldn't happen. Unless running under the Eurostar banner, of course.

The way more likely thing would be DB, which was really keen on running Frankfurt-London via Brussels, but Brexit made that fell through. The news says they are still looking into it.

Brissle Girl · 13 May 2024

peteb said:
There were several passengers on my train to Brussels who were fretting about missing the onwards DB Cologne-bound ICE due to depart 20 after our arrival, as we arrived about 5 late, then all got stuck in a horrid traffic jam of suitcases etc queuing for the lifts down to the connections tunnel under Midi. And these were just in my carriage.

That happened to me about 5 years ago, and I only made the connection with about 2 mins to spare. Talk about stressful. It completely put me off trying something similar again, or encouraging others to try Eurostar for a connection to Germany.

Mgameing123 · 14 May 2024

Brissle Girl said:
That happened to me about 5 years ago, and I only made the connection with about 2 mins to spare. Talk about stressful. It completely put me off trying something similar again, or encouraging others to try Eurostar for a connection to Germany.

How late did your train arrive?

Cloud Strife · 14 May 2024

signed said:
but Brexit made that fell through

Brexit in this case is really a non-issue for passenger trains. The issue is and always has been the arrangements for police/immigration control, as running to Frankfurt would require at least two (if not more) sets of UK border controls to be placed in Cologne and Frankfurt at tremendous cost.

The UK ETA *may* open the door in this respect, as it should be perfectly possible for passengers without the ETA to be denied boarding, while actual controls could be carried out on arrival.

Mgameing123 · 14 May 2024

Cloud Strife said:
Brexit in this case is really a non-issue for passenger trains. The issue is and always has been the arrangements for police/immigration control, as running to Frankfurt would require at least two (if not more) sets of UK border controls to be placed in Cologne and Frankfurt at tremendous cost.

The UK ETA *may* open the door in this respect, as it should be perfectly possible for passengers without the ETA to be denied boarding, while actual controls could be carried out on arrival.

Why not just do a Lille shuffle?

Cloud Strife · 14 May 2024

Mgameing123 said:
Why not just do a Lille shuffle?

It's incredibly unattractive for passengers. However, it's worth remembering that some Eurostar trains have/had immigration control on arrival, such as those from Marne-la-Vallee, which only had exit French controls and not UK entry controls.

deltic · 14 May 2024

The problem that arises is presumably the lack of flexibility in carrying internal European passengers - ie could a Cologne - London service be able to carry Cologne-Brussels passengers. If not then the finances start unravelling.

If you could overcome that barrier then you could develop a network of services to the likes of Barcelona, Milan, Zurich, Munich and Berlin.

signed · 14 May 2024

Cloud Strife said:
Brexit in this case is really a non-issue for passenger trains.

The main issue with Brexit is the fact that border controls take a LOT longer than previously. Eurostar even artificially capped passenger numbers to prevent bottlenecks.

Cloud Strife said:
The issue is and always has been the arrangements for police/immigration control, as running to Frankfurt would require at least two (if not more) sets of UK border controls to be placed in Cologne and Frankfurt at tremendous cost.

Running UK BC in Cologne would basically be a gift to Eurostar at the German expense, so competition may be very much stiff from the beginning, so I doubt this would ever happen.

Eurotunnel operator, GetLink offers to subsidise new cross-Channel rail services

Member

RailUK Forums

Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member