Eurostar - advance tickets and prices?

Howardh · 3 Apr 2013

Using the principal that the longer you book ahead the cheaper it is, I've been looking at Eurostar to book a return trip mid-August (London/any Belgian Station). As it's still outside the four-months advance booking point, nothing's yet available.

Out of curiosity I have looked at the dates four months from now which ARE available, and there doesn't seem to be any cheap availabilty whatsoever (apart from going out at stupid-o'clock).

Trains within a month or so DO have cheap returns.

Am I better off not booking so long in advance, and waiting until nearer the time (if unsold seats become available cheaper), is August so busy there will be no cheap seats, or should I grin and bear it and book Ryanair for a £ton?

BTW I'm going from Manchester and flights to Brussels or Antwerpen are limited from here.

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30907 · 3 Apr 2013

I get the normal £69 return on all ES services Tues 31/7.
Are you looking at through fares from Manchester? if so you will either get a "no fares available" or a fare using the Euro High Saver, because Advance fares won't be on sale for another month or more (12 weeks just like all UK fares).
you need to judge whether you will save enough by waiting. For Brussels on a weekday there is usually plenty of availability except 1058 ex SP.

Howardh · 4 Apr 2013

30907 said:
I get the normal £69 return on all ES services Tues 31/7.
Are you looking at through fares from Manchester? if so you will either get a "no fares available" or a fare using the Euro High Saver, because Advance fares won't be on sale for another month or more (12 weeks just like all UK fares).
you need to judge whether you will save enough by waiting. For Brussels on a weekday there is usually plenty of availability except 1058 ex SP.

Not from Manchester, as tickets won't be available until a month after Eurostar. Doing London - Any Belgian Station and will add the Manc/London bit on after.

EDIT;
Sod it - it's too much hassle. Booked Ryanair (£100.80) so will just need a return from Chaleroi to Mechelen which is about £20. Now...never flown with them before

Aldaniti · 4 Apr 2013

Howardh said:
Not from Manchester, as tickets won't be available until a month after Eurostar. Doing London - Any Belgian Station and will add the Manc/London bit on after.

EDIT;
Sod it - it's too much hassle. Booked Ryanair (£100.80) so will just need a return from Chaleroi to Mechelen which is about £20. Now...never flown with them before

You're right. I've been put off using Eurostar for journeys from the north - for some strange reason I can never find the cheapest advertised fares either!! - but booking with Ryanair is a drastic step to take. My deepest sympathy.

Howardh · 4 Apr 2013

Aldaniti said:
You're right. I've been put off using Eurostar for journeys from the north - for some strange reason I can never find the cheapest advertised fares either!! - but booking with Ryanair is a drastic step to take. My deepest sympathy.

Thank you. Although it's four months away, I've already packed my belongings into a bag to see if it's under the maximum size. Will re-try tomorrow.

But seriously, why do train companies make things so difficult? Sure it's difficult to know months in advance which bits of the track are under engineering, but I'd be happy to buy a fairly standard advance ticket MAN/LON/ABS for £100 return right now for a train in five months, and then turn up on the day, instead of mind-boggling offers, reductions and whatever. They could even e-mail me back and put me on a specific train if they want.

Anyway, my money's gone to that (insert adjective) Mr O'leary. I'm that desperate to book the darned thing, now I can start on hotels knowing that I've a quarter of a chance of getting there.

button_boxer · 4 Apr 2013

If you want the cheapest fare you probably need to book the London to Belgium leg as soon as it becomes available (4 months ahead) and then phone Eurostar domestic sales (01233 617913) when the UK advances become available (typically 12 weeks ahead) to book the Manchester to London leg. The most you will pay for the UK leg (assuming arrival at Euston at 0940 or later if it's a weekday) is £38.70 each way for the High Saver, it could be as little as £12.50 each way for the cheapest advance.

Aldaniti · 5 Apr 2013

Howardh said:
Thank you. Although it's four months away, I've already packed my belongings into a bag to see if it's under the maximum size. Will re-try tomorrow.

But seriously, why do train companies make things so difficult? Sure it's difficult to know months in advance which bits of the track are under engineering, but I'd be happy to buy a fairly standard advance ticket MAN/LON/ABS for £100 return right now for a train in five months, and then turn up on the day, instead of mind-boggling offers, reductions and whatever. They could even e-mail me back and put me on a specific train if they want.

Anyway, my money's gone to that (insert adjective) Mr O'leary. I'm that desperate to book the darned thing, now I can start on hotels knowing that I've a quarter of a chance of getting there.

I guess Eurostar have now captured the majority of the Paris and Brussels traffic, the last time I looked it was over 70%. As this increases, often the incentive to generate further business reduces correspondingly, particularly when capacity is finite.

paul1609 · 5 Apr 2013

Howardh said:
Thank you. Although it's four months away, I've already packed my belongings into a bag to see if it's under the maximum size. Will re-try tomorrow.

But seriously, why do train companies make things so difficult? Sure it's difficult to know months in advance which bits of the track are under engineering, but I'd be happy to buy a fairly standard advance ticket MAN/LON/ABS for £100 return right now for a train in five months, and then turn up on the day, instead of mind-boggling offers, reductions and whatever. They could even e-mail me back and put me on a specific train if they want.

Anyway, my money's gone to that (insert adjective) Mr O'leary. I'm that desperate to book the darned thing, now I can start on hotels knowing that I've a quarter of a chance of getting there.

Because the Manchester to Brussels market by rail is so small its not worth them persuing it.
I dont have any figures for manchester but leeds managed just over a hundred through ticket sales to Eurostar destinations 2 years ago.

Deerfold · 5 Apr 2013

paul1609 said:
Because the Manchester to Brussels market by rail is so small its not worth them persuing it.
I dont have any figures for manchester but leeds managed just over a hundred through ticket sales to Eurostar destinations 2 years ago.

Which is presumably why the OP isn't looking up Manchester - Belgium.

Howardh said:
Doing London - Any Belgian Station and will add the Manc/London bit on after.

cgcenet · 8 Apr 2013

Aldaniti said:
I guess Eurostar have now captured the majority of the Paris and Brussels traffic, the last time I looked it was over 70%. As this increases, often the incentive to generate further business reduces correspondingly, particularly when capacity is finite.

The Channel Tunnel is running at around 57% of capacity at present. Whatever is limiting the number of passenger train services running through the CT, it certainly isn't capacity.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

paul1609 said:
Because the Manchester to Brussels market by rail is so small its not worth them persuing it.
I dont have any figures for manchester but leeds managed just over a hundred through ticket sales to Eurostar destinations 2 years ago.

Perhaps that is looking at it the wrong way round, and what is limiting the take-up of the train between mainland Europe and the UK provinces is the lack of decent integrated ticketing. If international rail ticketing were to go back to the way it used to be, i.e. you could buy your international through train ticket at the local rail station in a similar way to buying a domestic rail ticket, then the game would instantly change...

Bald Rick · 8 Apr 2013

cgcenet said:
The Channel Tunnel is running at around 57% of capacity at present. Whatever is limiting the number of passenger train services running through the CT, it certainly isn't capacity.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Perhaps that is looking at it the wrong way round, and what is limiting the take-up of the train between mainland Europe and the UK provinces is the lack of decent integrated ticketing. If international rail ticketing were to go back to the way it used to be, i.e. you could buy your international through train ticket at the local rail station in a similar way to buying a domestic rail ticket, then the game would instantly change...

Either that, or that as the OP demonstrates, it is often cheaper, and almost always quicker to fly (unless you want Calais / Lille).

And don't confuse eurotunnel capacity with Eurostar capacity. The latter is reached well before the former.

cgcenet · 9 Apr 2013

Bald Rick said:
Either that, or that as the OP demonstrates, it is often cheaper, and almost always quicker to fly (unless you want Calais / Lille).

If you want Calais (or if you are travelling to mainland Europe from southern Kent or Sussex), then quite honestly the best way to travel by public transport is by train to Dover then ferry as a foot passenger.

It's inevitable that a flight will be quicker than trains from northern UK to mainland Europe, at least until HS2 is built and through trains start running (but I'm doubtful that the latter will happen). But as for it being cheaper, that is not how things ought to be and part of this may be down to poor ticket integration.

Bald Rick said:
And don't confuse eurotunnel capacity with Eurostar capacity. The latter is reached well before the former.

When I say the CT is at 57% capacity, I mean in terms of slots for running trains through it. The slots reserved for freight (which includes the vehicle shuttles) often get filled up, while those reserved for passenger trains tend to go spare. The cynic in me suggests that it suits Eurostar, as still the de facto private monopoly operator of passenger trains through the CT, to run a relatively limited service so that it can get away with charging high fares.

Howardh · 9 Apr 2013

Even though Eurostar now goes from St P, the biggest whinge from us northerners (on top of the pricing and the shortage of through tickets) is changing from Euston to St P, the time taken and the bother of it all.

OK, it's better than Waterloo, but adds an hour + to the journey and you can see the planes flying over you!

As far as I know the new HS links won't address this? Bizarre. Why have a high-speed link North-Lon and then have to get off and cart your luggage half-a-mile down the road if you want to get to Paris?

Jordeh · 9 Apr 2013

Howardh said:
As far as I know the new HS links won't address this? Bizarre. Why have a high-speed link North-Lon and then have to get off and cart your luggage half-a-mile down the road if you want to get to Paris?

HS1 and HS2 will be connected by some of the North London Line which will be upgraded to handle the continental gauge.

JoeGJ1984 · 9 Apr 2013

I don't see why the HS2 can't go to St Pancras rather than Euston, thereby eliminating either a tube journey or an out of station interchange, which I think should increase travel to the continent from the regions by rail. And also make it easier for through running. This seems to be a major drawback of HS2 (I think HS2's domestic benefits are rather limited, but I think there are benefits from giving the regions easy connections into Europe).

30907 · 9 Apr 2013

Euston was chosen because there was theoretically space - and some sort of underground rolling walkway would be no problem.
There is a variant proposal being pushed for a wholly underground station with the line continuing towards Stratford with links to HS1 and (presumably) stabling at T Mills. See April Modern Railways.

Going back to the OP - on revisiting the EStar site I discover (with difficulty - it's very unresponsive) that Manchester-Brussels claims to be completely sold out from the UK summer timetable start, which is ludicrous as Advances on VT are available to the end of June.
Whether the problem is with ES or VT I don't know, but I now agree that this is poor, and apologies for suggesting it wasn't a major problem.

Deerfold · 9 Apr 2013

JoeGJ1984 said:
I don't see why the HS2 can't go to St Pancras rather than Euston, thereby eliminating either a tube journey or an out of station interchange, which I think should increase travel to the continent from the regions by rail. And also make it easier for through running. This seems to be a major drawback of HS2 (I think HS2's domestic benefits are rather limited, but I think there are benefits from giving the regions easy connections into Europe).

I'm guessing this is down to the lack of room for any new platforms - they're putting an additional 6 into Euston.

The business case for HS2 is built entirely on its domestic benefits, with a priviso there may be some additional ones from enhanced European connectivity.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

30907 said:
Euston was chosen because there was theoretically space - and some sort of underground rolling walkway would be no problem.

Apart from all the tube lines, utilities and British Library archives in the way.

cgcenet · 9 Apr 2013

There were supposed to be train services between UK provinces and mainland Europe when the Channel Tunnel opened. What stopped those from happening was principally that (due to border security) they were to be barred from carrying UK domestic passengers (just as present Eurostar services cannot). This would have made them unviable, so I doubt there will be any through trains to mainland Europe using HS2 unless the border arrangements are relaxed to allow mixed domestic/international operation.

Eurostar - advance tickets and prices?

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