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Thomas Cook European timetable

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LNW-GW Joint

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This paragraph is on the seat61 site: http://seat61.com/news.htm#.Uc6WJPVwbDc

End of the Thomas Cook European Timetable...

It's devastating news for regular European train travellers and booking agents. Thomas Cook are closing down their entire timetable and guidebook publishing division, which means the closure of the Thomas Cook European Rail Timetable, which recently celebrated 140 years of publication since its first edition in 1873. The August 2013 edition will be the last. Can any other publishing house take it over? I hear the Timetable covered its costs, so this is presumably a 'strategic' 'business' decision, to heck with people. Forgive Them For They Know Not What They Do... Can anyone out there take this august publication over

Thomas Cook has been in quite serious trouble recently and is restructuring.
I did wonder how the Timetable would fare in the cutbacks.
I have only just bought this month's edition, for trip planning.
I am only an intermittent purchaser (once every couple of years or so) but it is a big blow for those of us who like the big picture of rail travel overseas.

I used to buy it from any handy Thomas Cook travel agents, but the last time I tried they denied all knowledge of it and scoffed at the idea that Thomas Cook would have anything to do with trains!
So my last few purchases have been online.

Using national rail websites is very hard work, especially for cross-border travel.
I wonder if someone else will buy up the operation?
 
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Greenback

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I wonder if someone else will buy up the operation?

I was wondering the same thing! In fact, would anyone need to buy it at all? Could an enterprising company or website like seat61 simply produce a similar book if they felt it would be worthwhile?

I thought that Thomas Cook may give up on the timetable given their financial difficulties. In the internet age when it is increasingly difficult to get paper copies of just about anything it seemed an inevitable decision at some point.
 

radamfi

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Whilst I used to use the Thomas Cook timetable a lot, nowadays I hardly look at it and mostly download everything I want from the national websites. It is good for the mainstream traveller who only wants to use the main and tourist orientated services, but for an enthusiast the lack of minor lines and local services is a problem. Now there is a mobile iPhone/Android app to get European train times offline, the casual user now has a free alternative.
 
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Greenback

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Whilst I used to use the Thomas Cook timetable a lot, nowadays I hardly look at it and mostly download everything I want from the national websites. It is good for the mainstream traveller who only wants to use the main and tourist orientated services, but for an enthusiast the lack of minor lines and local services is a problem. Now there is a mobile iPhone/Android app to get European train times offline, the casual user now has a free alternative.

That is the major problem,. Is there a sufficient customer base to make a timetable book a viable comemrcial proposition these days?
 

Jordeh

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Whilst I used to use the Thomas Cook timetable a lot, nowadays I hardly look at it and mostly download everything I want from the national websites. It is good for the mainstream traveller who only wants to use the main and tourist orientated services, but for an enthusiast the lack of minor lines and local services is a problem. Now there is a mobile iPhone/Android app to get European train times offline, the casual user now has a free alternative.
What is this app out of interest? (Will prove useful this summer).
 

radamfi

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The app is called "Rail Planner Eurail/InterRail". It can easily be found in the app stores by searching for "Eurail"
 

Capybara

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Sad news. I'm a regular with the summer timetable. And the book does stuff that apps and computers generally don't do (even if I had an iphone which I don't) which is to proved a very quick way of looking at options etc, particularly when on the move. Let's hope someone steps in.
 

philjo

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I hope another publisher steps in to keep it going. Just the June & December editions would suffice if it helps to reduce publication costs with monthly updates available as a PDF (for a specific country) to download for purchasers?
compared to the weight of the UK timetable the Thomas Cook one is easy to carry with you! I don;t have a smartphone so would rely on the printed timetables - I can access online ones via my ipad but need wifi to access most of them.
Am I correct in thinking the Eurail timetable app still works when offline?

I use the DBB Navigator (German railways) and SBB mobile (swiss railways) apps - each one tends to give slightly different results for the same journey. The railteam app also gives similar results.
 

radamfi

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atillathehunn

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There was an interesting piece of the BBC's PM Programme today about the timetable. They had someone (I don't know who) on the programme mourning the loss of the publication. He also set listeners an interesting journey challenge. He did quite well, getting from Spain to Volgograd via Venice and Vienna. Quite interesting. I will miss the publication! Random jaunts across Europe from here are very easy. It's one change of train to Moscow, but 2 changes are required to London. This will become much more of an adventure and game of luck without this!
 

leytongabriel

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Last time I tried to do a non-Eurostar international booking at Paris Gare du Nord the member of staff having difficulty serving me denied the timetable's existance. When I pointed out that I could see it on the shelf behind him he put up the counter thingy and wouldn't serve me. It turned into a 'speak to the manager' situation. If station staff don't know of it or how to use it then we are in trouble.
 

306024

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For those of us that like to travel for the sake of it this is indeed bad news. Hopefully someone will pick up the baton.

The electronic systems are very good if you know where you want to go, which lets face it is fine for 99% of passengers, but half the fun is working out scenic journeys over obscure routes. The shipping information is excellent too, far easier to look in one book than thrash around on the internet (for some of us oldies anyway).

Mind you when PKP (Polish Railways) retimed my train 7 mins earlier recently I would have missed it if I had relied on TC alone. Nevertheless I'll miss having the 'insurance' of this timetable on my european adventures.
 

sarahj

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The timetable people seemed to be treated in an odd way at the HQ in Peterbrough. The TC HQ was this hudge building, looking all impressive. Meanwhile at the back, in what looked like a portacabin, the guys worked away producing the red book.
I do wish them all the best and hope they manage to get soemthing going.


Many moons ago TC also used to publish a little book on sleeping cars. I went into one shop asking about it. They knew nothing, but i showed them the info. They promised to look and asked me to come back. I came back, and at the back of a cupboard they found a copy, a little scraggy. The cost to me, zero.
Mind that was in the days when you buy international reail tickets, no issues.
Imagine today walking into a high street chain today asking for a 1st class return from Amsterdam to Maastricht.
 

Polarbear

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The man in seat 61 has suggested that a private venture is looking to take on publication of the european timetable;

http://www.seat61.com/news.htm

End of the Thomas Cook European Timetable... Or not?
It's devastating news for regular European train travellers and booking agents. Thomas Cook are closing down their entire timetable and guidebook publishing division, which means the closure of the Thomas Cook European Rail Timetable, which recently celebrated 140 years of publication since its first edition in 1873. The August 2013 edition will be the last. Can any other publishing house take it over? I hear the Timetable covered its costs, so this is presumably a 'strategic' 'business' decision, to heck with people. Forgive Them For They Know Not What They Do... Can anyone out there take this august publication over?

Update 12 July: I hear this morning that the timetable compilers are trying to set up a private venture to take it over. I wish them every success!

I can only echo the sentiments above & hope that this very useful publication continues to be produced in the future.
 

Gordon

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I worked for the timetable on leaving school, so sad news for me. I suspect the timetable would pay its way on its own. I think diversification into wider guidebooks was not helpful to the cause as that market is saturated.
 

Greenback

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I worked for the timetable on leaving school, so sad news for me. I suspect the timetable would pay its way on its own. I think diversification into wider guidebooks was not helpful to the cause as that market is saturated.

The timetable may well cover its cost, but in the global economy at the moment that may not be enough for a big company who need to maximise profits.

It may suit a rich benefactor with a love of railways who won't necessarily need to make a certain percentage return on investment...
 

brianthegiant

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Was invaluable when I went inter-railing 20 years ago, when the web was a very small very nerdy scene with limited connection with the real world, and the TC timetable was pretty much invaluable unless you were going to try & get timetables from each country posted to you.

But nowadays, I think most people planning a euro trip will just look on the web & not bother with the hassle of buying a book & waiting for it to arrive. Presumably all the different countries do timetable changes on different dates, not to mention engineering works, so trying to keep a paper book up to date across so many countries must be very difficult.

I would very much question whether an independently published Euro timetable would pay for itself even by a shoestring operation with no overheads, when the annual research effort is considered. (having written a non-fiction book myself).
If this ever gets published again it would be very much a hobby project by someone.

sorry, Brian
 
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brianthegiant

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If anyone want a copy of the Thomas Cook Rail map of Europe, my 1991 edition goes on sale on ebay 7pm on weds item # 321218813382
 

philjo

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Thomas Cook have issued a Press release - the timetable will continue to be published independently - a former member of their staff has bought the rights. the first issue is expected in February.

http://www.thomascook.com/press-centre/thomas-cook-european-rail-timetable-lives-on/

Thomas Cook agrees deal so the European Rail Timetable lives on

Thomas Cook UK & Ireland has today confirmed it has reached an agreement with a previous member of staff for the rights to its iconic European Rail Timetable. The timetable will now be published by John Potter, a former member of Thomas Cook’s Timetable Editorial Team. A re-launch of the timetable by John’s company European Rail Timetable Limited is planned for February 2014.

Speaking about the agreement John Potter said: “I’m really excited at the prospect of taking this independent business forward, and hope that our new team can build on the success enjoyed by the ‘Thomas Cook European Rail Timetable’ during its illustrious 140 year history. I would like to thank Thomas Cook for its co-operation in making this happen.”

First known as “Cook’s Continental Time Tables” and published continuously since 1873 (the only exception during World War II), the unique Thomas Cook European Rail Timetable was seen as the ‘rail-bible’ for a wide audience of business and leisure travellers, as well as rail enthusiasts of all ages across the globe. The only publication of its kind, it was renowned for providing schedules for over 50,000 train, bus and ferry connections in over 5,000 locations throughout Europe and beyond.

Earlier this year Thomas Cook UK & Ireland announced its intention to focus on core products, signalling the end of the company’s publishing arm. Commenting on today’s agreement Peter Fankhauser, CEO for the UK & Continental Europe at Thomas Cook said: “We know customers were disappointed that the timetable stopped and, whilst publishing isn’t part of our transformation strategy, we felt it was important to support John with his new venture and continue the tradition started by our founder. We wish John and his team every success for the future.”

Other members of the former Thomas Cook Editorial Team, David Turpie and Chris Woodcock will be employed by European Rail Timetable Limited. Between them, John, Chris and David worked on the Timetable for more than 46 years.

ENDS

Notes to editors:

• Under the new agreement all licences for the timetable will be transferred from Thomas Cook to European Rail Timetable Limited.
• The new timetable will not use the Thomas Cook brand, however it will contain the same information.
• August 2013 was the final edition of the Thomas Cook European Rail Timetable
• This is the only timetable of its kind in publication today
• Contact details for the new timetable will be:

Web: www.europeanrailtimetable.eu
 

davetheguard

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Thanks for the update philjo - until recently the silence has been deafening.

This is really good news; much as on-line timetables are very useful for specific journeys, somehow the ability to see the choice of routes, and a glance at the whole service in one go, makes planning journeys with a paper copy so much more fun!

I wish the "new" editorial team every success, and expect to buy one or two copies a year.....
 

ianhr

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Excellent news! Many railway system websites now only show point to point timings. I found this very frustrating on a recent visit to Spain where it has become increasingly difficult to get paper timetables from RENFE. FEVE still produce them, although probably for not much longer now that they have been incorporated into RENFE.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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Sad news that it's ended, I use it a lot as you can not get all the info that wonderful publication used to have on the internet. I am pleased to see from Philjo's posting that it may be taken over and if it does resume, I will buy it every now again as I hope to travel by train in Europe at least twice a year and in the past, some of my trips have been rather complicated at the cook's timetable has been invaluable, especially as it shows lake steamer and mountain railway information too.
 

philjo

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Out of interest if you look on Amazon there are used copies of the June 2013 timetable selling for £5000 !

I found the timetable book very useful for planning my trip to southern France - I haven't found any detailed TGV timetables online, only ones showing listings for specific stations. the TC timetable was much easier to use to workout suitable connections/where to change based on frequency of service. The TGV timetables online may show a connection but hides the fact that there isn't another connection from that station for several hours if you miss it (though there is a backup if you book to change elsewhere instead)!
 
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