Ex LNER (and Grand Central) Mark 4 sets for TfW

[Turbo004]

67025 is planned to go to Holyhead Tuesday morning. HD05 is planned to leave Holyhead Wednesday lunchtime if all goes to plan for Canton. Lack of available drivers at Holyhead is the cause.

 

[Welshguy1048]

Certainly looks better than the recent poor performance! Hopefully the spate of issues ends.
Not totally sure of what the plan is now to get HD05 done with regards to 5 car to be honest.


The latest plan I heard was its still planned to go but unsure of any timings, certainly was the aim to get HD05 to Canton tomorrow so if it doesn't go today potentially it could head down in the morning.

Thank you @sd0733

Dave

67025 is planned to go to Holyhead Tuesday morning. HD05 is planned to leave Holyhead Wednesday lunchtime if all goes to plan for Canton. Lack of available drivers at Holyhead is the cause.

Thank you @Turbo004

Dave

 

[sd0733]

67025 is planned to go to Holyhead Tuesday morning. HD05 is planned to leave Holyhead Wednesday lunchtime if all goes to plan for Canton. Lack of available drivers at Holyhead is the cause.

Thanks for the update. Did wonder about what the spare crew situation would be on a bank holiday evening.

 

[Bob Price]

Looks like TfW are taking the 67 situation into their own hands. From Rail Express in X they have acquired 67026 and 028. One for spares and one to reactivate

https://twitter.com/railexpress/status/1787781131573604595?t=rhBAdDyPrGT9d4ytMuaB_g&s=19

 

[Lurcheroo]

Looks like 4 sets out today.
Interestingly HD06’s diagram usually has an ECS MANP-CREWE but will instead operator a 20:30 service departure from Manchester stopping at Stockport and Wilmslow.
I think this is a perfectly good thing to do, but does anyone know why it’s happening today?

Edit: think I may have figured it out, looks like usually a 4 car 197 arrives from Cardiff, splits and then 2 cars go back to Cardiff whilst 2 form the service to Crewe and the loco runs back ECS.

 

[MP393]

Looks like 4 sets out today.
Interestingly HD06’s diagram usually has an ECS MANP-CREWE but will instead operator a 20:30 service departure from Manchester stopping at Stockport and Wilmslow.
I think this is a perfectly good thing to do, but does anyone know why it’s happening today?

Edit: think I may have figured it out, looks like usually a 4 car 197 arrives from Cardiff, splits and then 2 cars go back to Cardiff whilst 2 form the service to Crewe and the loco runs back ECS.

Yes your edit is correct. Occasionally the Loco + Stock will form that service in the case of a shortage of 197s, if only one unit goes up as 1W22 then the split doesn’t happen and the Loco works back to Crewe in service.

 

[sd0733]

Looks like 4 sets out today.
Interestingly HD06’s diagram usually has an ECS MANP-CREWE but will instead operator a 20:30 service departure from Manchester stopping at Stockport and Wilmslow.
I think this is a perfectly good thing to do, but does anyone know why it’s happening today?

Edit: think I may have figured it out, looks like usually a 4 car 197 arrives from Cardiff, splits and then 2 cars go back to Cardiff whilst 2 form the service to Crewe and the loco runs back ECS.

It did the same yesterday too with shortage of 197s
The 20:30 only goes to Crewe, with the path to Cardiff coming from Llandudno so having it as the Mk4 makes things much simpler without splitting in Manchester.

 

[Topological]

It did the same yesterday too with shortage of 197s
The 20:30 only goes to Crewe, with the path to Cardiff coming from Llandudno so having it as the Mk4 makes things much simpler without splitting in Manchester.

Is the longer-term plan for the Mk4 to work in service?

Presumably when we get the 5 car 197s on the Manchesters splitting becomes much harder. The 1930 from Manchester is still busy (at least at the northern end) so it would be a shame if the plan was for the 5 car that arrived from the south to continue to split into the 1930 and 2030.

 

[sd0733]

Is the longer-term plan for the Mk4 to work in service?

Looks like it goes back to being a Cardiff service in the new timetable with the Mk4 going empty to Crewe too.
The way it works at the moment with it terminating at Crewe and a unit running via Crewe from Llandudno seems a better idea as it does mean 2 trains of higher capacity and less messing around in Manchester.
Personally I think the way it is with the empties and splitting is a real waste of resources and causes lots of problems but it seems for whatever reason that's the preferred way!

 

[Caaardiff]

The ECS runs via Warrington for train crew route knowledge.
I think in the new timetable the Manchester-Crewe may actually be attaching to the Llandudno-Cardiff, although may be wrong there!

 

[sd0733]

The ECS runs via Warrington for train crew route knowledge.
I think in the new timetable the Manchester-Crewe may actually be attaching to the Llandudno-Cardiff, although may be wrong there!

The 20:24 one runs via Styal, the 22:30 ecs runs via Warrington. There's other trains going via Styal or the later ecs around 23:50 could in theory cover the Styal bit.

It looks as if the one from Llandudno forms the Stopper to Shrewsbury in that timetable looking at the platforms.

To bring it back to Mk4s, the path is now showing for 67025+HD05 move tomorrow. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:71254/2024-05-08/detailed

 

[Jez]

Is the longer-term plan for the Mk4 to work in service?

Presumably when we get the 5 car 197s on the Manchesters splitting becomes much harder. The 1930 from Manchester is still busy (at least at the northern end) so it would be a shame if the plan was for the 5 car that arrived from the south to continue to split into the 1930 and 2030.

I think the long term plan was for the 19xx arrival from South Wales to still split even when its a 5 car. I think the 2030 is meant to be the only 2 car booked working out of Manchester to South Wales? So the 1930 would be the 3 car set after the split.

Anyway, good to hear all 4 diagrams were covered today. I noticed a 158 covering a 197 West Wales to Manchester service so looks like its the 197s we are short of today rather than MK4's.

 

[craigybagel]

The 20:24 one runs via Styal, the 22:30 ecs runs via Warrington. There's other trains going via Styal or the later ecs around 23:50 could in theory cover the Styal bit.

It looks as if the one from Llandudno forms the Stopper to Shrewsbury in that timetable looking at the platforms.

To bring it back to Mk4s, the path is now showing for 67025+HD05 move tomorrow. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:71254/2024-05-08/detailed

To be fair, given how much Crewe depot has expanded over the last few years there isn't much space to cut back on route retention any more for either Styal or Warrington with so many drivers to keep competent.

 

[sd0733]

To be fair, given how much Crewe depot has expanded over the last few years there isn't much space to cut back on route retention any more for either Styal or Warrington with so many drivers to keep competent.

True, I know solving one problem causes another. Just a shame there's not an easy way of ticking all boxes and avoiding all the splits.

 

[craigybagel]

True, I know solving one problem causes another. Just a shame there's not an easy way of ticking all boxes and avoiding all the splits.

Indeed - it's not like running the trains back separately doesn't cause headaches in its own right, even before you look at the inefficiencies of it all!

 

[XCTurbostar]

Does anyone know if 1V93 on Saturdays will revert to a 67+MK4 from June 2nd?

 

[sd0733]

Does anyone know if 1V93 on Saturdays will revert to a 67+MK4 from June 2nd?

Definitely won't as it is, it stops at Valley and Llanfair PG which aren't permitted Mk4 calls.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Definitely won't as it is, it stops at Valley and Llanfair PG which aren't permitted Mk4 calls.

Thanks, I assume the set that finishes at Holyhead on a Friday will continue to be unused all weekend then!

 

[Newp410]

Does anyone know if 1V93 on Saturdays will revert to a 67+MK4 from June 2nd?

Definitely won't. The 5th weekday diagram will likely come into play during the period of the June timetable (the one starting with 1W13) once HD05 re-enters service as a 5-car.

 

[MP393]

Thursday 09/05. HD06 breaking free from the Crewe-Crewe circuit after a few days and will end at Canton tonight. 4 diagrams out though so good to see.

67008 HD02
1V31 04:54 Crewe Cardiff
1W55 08:49 Cardiff Manchester
1V42 12:30 Manchester Cardiff
1W23 16:49 Cardiff Manchester
1K66 20:30 Manchester Crewe

67012 HD03
1W11 04:35 Cardiff Manchester
1V37 08:30 Manchester Cardiff
1W96 17:14 Cardiff Holyhead

67013 HD06
Empties ATC Crewe - Manchester
1V33 06:27 Manchester Cardiff
1W19 12:49 Cardiff Manchester
1V50 16:30 Manchester Swansea

67022 HD07
1V91 05:30 Holyhead Cardiff
1W57 10:52 Cardiff Manchester
1V46 14:30 Manchester Cardiff
1W65 18:55 Cardiff Manchester
Empties to ATC Crewe

 

[mikestone1952]

Looks like 1K66 was loco hauled despite 1W22 running with 4 cars Tuesday and Wednesday (according to rtt) so is it diagrammed for some reason this week?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Is the weekdays 18:30 Manchester to Cardiff Mk4 booked?

 

[Topological]

Is the weekdays 18:30 Manchester to Cardiff Mk4 booked?

Sadly the usually missing diagram (includes the 10:30 from Manchester as well)

 

[Jamesrob637]

Sadly the usually missing diagram (includes the 10:30 from Manchester as well)

Okay, will it be booked Mk4 from the June timetable change? Thanks.

 

[sd0733]

Looks like 1K66 was loco hauled despite 1W22 running with 4 cars Tuesday and Wednesday (according to rtt) so is it diagrammed for some reason this week?

Looks to be yes, it's part of the Mk4 diagram and 5K23 the normal ecs isn't shown at all. Seems to be just this week though.

Okay, will it be booked Mk4 from the June timetable change? Thanks.

1st class fares are available to buy on the 10:30 and 18:30 from the June Timetable so hopefully it will be brought in then.

HD04 heading out on a test run tomorrow with 67015 https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:71662/2024-05-10/detailed as its first full run as a 5+2 it should then re-enter full service on Saturday.

 

[BillStampy]

1st class fares are available to buy on the 10:30 and 18:30 from the June Timetable so hopefully it will be brought in then.

My only issue I foresee is engineering works on the SWML redirecting the empty via the VoG, which isn't cleared for MK4s (I'm pretty sure). Which would mean atleast once every so often an entire week will be out of the question due to the redirection, unless they start it from Cardiff then the 1030 and 1830 would be fine.

 

[craigybagel]

Looks to be yes, it's part of the Mk4 diagram and 5K23 the normal ecs isn't shown at all. Seems to be just this week though.

It's in the amendments for this week. I've no idea why though.

1st class fares are available to buy on the 10:30 and 18:30 from the June Timetable so hopefully it will be brought in then.

It's on the traincrew diagrams as a 67 from June, hopefully that will actually be the case!

 

[Topological]

It's in the amendments for this week. I've no idea why though.

It's on the traincrew diagrams as a 67 from June, hopefully that will actually be the case!

Excellent news.

I would prefer there were going to be enough 197s that the service was able to go back to hourly between West Wales and the Marches and could be operated with 4 carriages. However, given where we are having the Mk4 does mean there is better capacity than currently operating so the diagram becoming Mk4 is a big positive.