Underground station closures and service reductions

[rebmcr]

If that was normal the country would be collapsing - so what is special about these drivers’ circumstances? Did they all touch one thing infected and not wash their hands?

Drivers have the ability to correctly prioritise their safety, and that of the people around them.

Others without the shelter of unions are (quoting a friend for example) furious that they are still being required to attend an office for half the week (in alternating groups) despite having a fully-operational work from home setup. As long as scumbag firms like that exist, the trains will continue to be crowded.

 

[Meerkat]

Drivers have the ability to correctly prioritise their safety, and that of the people around them.

Others without the shelter of unions are (quoting a friend for example) furious that they are still being required to attend an office for half the week (in alternating groups) despite having a fully-operational work from home setup. As long as scumbag firms like that exist, the trains will continue to be crowded.

So you are saying the drivers are refusing to work, rather than being ill or having a reason to isolate?

 

[rebmcr]

So you are saying the drivers are refusing to work, rather than being ill or having a reason to isolate?

No, I'm saying that others who have a reason to isolate don't have the backing to stand up to greedy employers.

 

[SlimJim1694]

For the same reasons as the rest of the population!
- they may have recently returned from a location abroad
- have family members who are self isolating
- be in close contact with other staff, taxis etc (now limited to two persons each)
- touch equipment used by others (no gloves or hand sanitiser provided)

of 15 driving staff required at my depot yesterday evening, 1 booked on

I find these figures quite staggering. As a driver (on the mainline, not the Underground) I think it is extremely important we continue to attend work as much as possible. There are nothing like these absence figures where I am (and it is in London). I guess its priorities isn't it... are people going to stand up and do their bit when most needed or are they going to see it as a way of getting out of work? I also wonder when these people currently self-isolating intend to stop doing so because this issue isn't going to go away in a week or two. Nobody is being tested so can't know if they've had it or not anyway. Will they still be refusing to book on in six months or a year? Presumably so, because if its not safe now it won't be safe then.

 

[westv]

More examples on twitter this morning of packed tube services!

 

[modernrail]

As per the title really! There are clearly too many people too close together on the remaining services. This could be because TfL have pared back services too much or because too many non-essential journeys are happening.

What should TfL do, add more services, restrict access (how?) or something else?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd say access free of charge but only for those who can prove they are a key worker. Walk to your nearest food shop instead. There is basically nobody within walking distance of a Tube station that is not also within walking distance of a local food shop of some kind.

 

[philjo]

Maybe initially require a pass or the key workers letter stamped from work to be shown for entry to the tube. Is it feasible to register their oystercards so they get (free) access while all other cards and contactless are declined by the barriers (requiring manual entry for emergency travel)

 

[JonathanH]

I think that we need to stagger working times. If people are essential workers, they could shift the working times to spread the load throughout the day (although I appreciate that it isn't easy).

 

[Mojo]

The services haven’t been cut back for no reason; the number of available staff is really limited right now and the service is being made up on the day and night before by the Service Control teams based upon staff availability rather than a revised timetable being adhered to.

I think the biggest difficulties are at certain times of the day; early morning services (especially the first train of the day) have always been busy and at the moment is no exception. With the exception of construction workers many of the others are doing essential jobs that need to continue. The reduced service is certainly not helping this; I do feel that perhaps more effort should be put in place to provide a more intensive service say start of traffic to 7am, if possible; with services cut back for the rest of the morning.

 

[telstarbox]

Matt Hancock has just said that TfL should be running more services on the tube. (Not saying you're wrong Mojo!)

 

[thejuggler]

This soon became a political football.

Government don't believe the level of staff absenteeism and therefore a full Underground service should be operating.

 

[Mojo]

Matt Hancock has just said that TfL should be running more services on the tube. (Not saying you're wrong Mojo!)

I don’t think there is anything he said that conflicts with what I, and others have been saying.

London Underground should be running more services than it is, before 7am.

 

[DarloRich]

I loved Hancock saying this was not a party political matter............... right before he chucked Khan under the tube!

What Hancock and his Johnsonian overlord should be doing is saying if you are not an essential worker you MUST stay at home.

They wont because they haven't got a clue how to support them

 

[hwl]

I loved Hancock saying this was not a party political matter............... right before he chucked Khan under the tube!

What Hancock and his Johnsonian overlord should be doing is saying if you are not an essential worker you MUST stay at home.

They wont because they haven't got a clue how to support them

I think part of the issue is that the Mayor does not realise that huge numbers in the financial services industry are classed as key workers because they can't work from home (security / anti-insider trading etc. ) and TfL have got the estimates completely wrong and then construction is a key the self employed busy if at all possible category. Construction works are easily identifiable because of the high vis.

The Mayor thinks of key workers in priority housing terms for lower earners /recent starters e.g. nurses police fire ambulance.

 

[Mikey C]

This soon became a political football.

Government don't believe the level of staff absenteeism and therefore a full Underground service should be operating.

I must admit to being a bit sceptical at the sheer numbers of tube driver self isolating, which seems vastly out of kilter with the rest of the population

Which is not to say it's isn't a disgrace that so many constructions sites are still open, but 2 wrongs don't make a right

 

[Mojo]

I think part of the issue is that the Mayor does not realise that huge numbers in the financial services industry are classed as key workers because they can't work from home (security / anti-insider trading etc. ) and TfL have got the estimates completely wrong and then construction is a key the self employed busy if at all possible category. Construction works are easily identifiable because of the high vis.

That is not my experience of what happens whatsoever. Because I very rarely see any Hi Vis on early morning travellers (less than 5%), such people who are going to work in construction are more easily identified (presumed) by very casual clothing, normally sportswear, and very occasionally bags branded with tool company names and logos.

Also, at the moment the crowding is not at usual peak times (although I’d argue the first trains of the day on most lines could be classed as peak as usually standing room only); it is in early mornings.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Well , if anyone can work out how to find , roster , timetable and manage additional train operators (+ everything else that goes with running a train service) can come up with "smart" ideas ,I am sure their practical input would be very welcome.

The stress that TfL staff of all grades must be under at the moment is very considerable. Excellent efforts being made to maintain lesser frequencies of say 12 tph on lines that have had double that frequency.

 

[simple simon]

I think part of the issue is that the Mayor does not realise that huge numbers in the financial services industry are classed as key workers because they can't work from home (security / anti-insider trading etc. ) and TfL have got the estimates completely wrong and then construction is a key the self employed busy if at all possible category. Construction works are easily identifiable because of the high vis.

The Mayor thinks of key workers in priority housing terms for lower earners /recent starters e.g. nurses police fire ambulance.

The stock market is not a key industry - its not needed to save lives and therefore at this time of emergency all stock markets should be shutdown - New York, Tokyo etc too!

 

[BayPaul]

The stock market is not a key industry - its not needed to save lives and therefore at this time of emergency all stock markets should be shutdown - New York, Tokyo etc too!

But banks providing loans to businesses that would otherwise be failing probably is a key industry, as is providing merchant banking services to supermarkets, keeping ATMs going, providing payroll services for other key businesses etc. Even at a stock market level, businesses are seeking re-financing at the moment. Needless destruction of businesses probably would cost lives.

 

[telstarbox]

Banks are clearly strategically important.

 

[hwl]

But banks providing loans to businesses that would otherwise be failing probably is a key industry, as is providing merchant banking services to supermarkets, keeping ATMs going, providing payroll services for other key businesses etc. Even at a stock market level, businesses are seeking re-financing at the moment. Needless destruction of businesses probably would cost lives.

Exactly the governments definition of "Key" is different to TfL and the government have a far better overall understanding than the GLA/Mayor's narrow definition that is fixated around housing affordability requirements.

The treasury is drawing blanks on easy to action support mechanisms for the self employed including lots of construction leaving millions (probably circa 2-2.5m) with no income or unable to claim benefits. Many employers are also unable to utilise the government support scheme as HMT has failed to understand the diversity of business models in the real world. Hence they need to keep as many as possible in work because they have no alternative.

 

[Meole]

Looks like Hancock wants central control of TfL.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Interesting tweet this morning.

 

[Dstock7080]

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/p...ner-mike-brown-on-our-response-to-coronavirus

London's Transport Commissioner Mike Brown on our response to coronavirus
26 March 2020
Support NHS heroes and TfL — please stay at home
MY heartfelt thanks go to the people of London for acting on the instruction of the Mayor and Government to stay at home and not travel to help fight the spread of coronavirus, save lives and protect our NHS.

We have seen Tube and rail passenger numbers plummet by 92 per cent and by almost 80 per cent on buses. This is enabling the transport network to serve the needs of health and other critical workers across the city.

In the same way as national rail services into London have been reduced, we are also running fewer Tube trains. This is because about 30 per cent of our own drivers, station staff, controllers and maintenance teams are not able to come to work, including those self-isolating or ill with coronavirus. The training involved with these roles takes many months and it is simply not possible to replace them immediately while maintaining a safe service. Our staff keeping the network running are making a heroic effort.

We are running as many trains in the early morning as possible. There has been crowding on some sections of the Tube at these times as London has adapted to our new ways of working. We have dealt with this by making some changes to these morning services, by applying station control measures and by working with 500 British Transport Police officers while also encouraging people to spread their time of travel. We are working with national rail services to ensure we manage crowding hotspots together too.

We have also taken the step to temporarily pause all TfL and Crossrail construction work to reduce the number of construction workers needing to travel into central London. I am extremely grateful for the willing help and support we have received on this from the industry and our supply chain.

 

[nidave]

Interesting tweet this morning.

I think someone has been crying out for attention and wants to become a bit of an internet sensation. Why didnt they tell them to F off or video it?

 

[Mikey C]

Isn't the problem on the tube that while number are massively down, those who are using it are mainly travelling at the same time, so the number stats are a bit misleading? I imagine that the tubes now (at 1pm) would be empty as leisure travel will have 99.9% gone.

Bus travel might be more evenly spread as there will be more pensioners using them during the day (shopping, hospital visits etc)

 

[Mag_seven]

Just a quick reminder that this thread is to discuss Underground station closures and service reductions.

If anyone wants to discuss anything else then please start a new thread.

Thanks

 

[LAX54]

Isn't the problem on the tube that while number are massively down, those who are using it are mainly travelling at the same time, so the number stats are a bit misleading? I imagine that the tubes now (at 1pm) would be empty as leisure travel will have 99.9% gone.

Bus travel might be more evenly spread as there will be more pensioners using them during the day (shopping, hospital visits etc)

Run an 'enhanced' service 0600 to 0900, then cut right back to a minimal service, pick up again at 1600 to 1900, then wind down, reducing service, making the last passenger trains about 2300.

 

[Mojo]

Run an 'enhanced' service 0600 to 0900, then cut right back to a minimal service, pick up again at 1600 to 1900, then wind down, reducing service, making the last passenger trains about 2300.

The main problems are before 06.00. In particular on many lines on the first trains, which have always been busy. In reality you would only need to ensure that the enhanced service runs up to about 07.30. Part of the main issue is that there is no timetable to publicise; I’ve been looking this week and found that the reliability of the first train times are very patchy. It will start to get better over the next few weeks when timetables are published.

Running the last trains at 23.00 would not help the people that the trains are being run for; many shifts finish at 23.00 in various industries, including the Underground where most station grades that include a nightshift, and the police.