GWR Class 166 Declassified First Class closed off

[800001]

All unit trains i have been on have had the first bay of seats behind the cab closed off.

LNER have some of an FC carriage closed off

The 1st class area where seats are not in use, is for customers to collect there free refreshments next to kitchen area.
Any staff travelling pass on Lner should be using half of coach C.

 

[DorkingMain]

I have to agree that shutting off parts of the train to maintain social distancing for pass staff is not a massively good look, but one that is nonetheless necessary. Staff don't really have the luxury of choice about travelling on a particular train and trying to identify particular services which might be quieter or safer was just too much of a headache.

We received suggestions from one of the unions during the height of COVID (when everyone was still bundling onto coastal trains) that we could lock out one coach or part of a coach for the purposes of allowing pass staff or key workers to travel in a socially distanced fashion (and to stop it looking like an empty coach with one member of staff rolling along in it).

However, we ended up finding that wasn't practical - a lot of people made very dubious claims about being key workers while attempting to travel for free, and it would be incredibly difficult for staff to enforce, especially on DOO routes.

 

[Parallel]

Yes, I have witnessed this happening with 166s on my daily commute. I understand why they’re doing it but it’s a bit frustrating as a passenger as some peak trains on the route now are busy and it’s not possible to socially distance on board with one third of two carriages out of use. Then you can see an off duty member of train crew enjoying 4 tables/16 seats to themselves!

Like I said, I see why they’re doing it to protect staff but it just gives the impression that passengers are second best and it doesn’t matter as much if they’re all crammed in. If they were running 5 coach 16xs, it wouldn’t be as much of an issue as there’d be more room to spread out.

 

[LowLevel]

On sets with first class at our TOC (which isn't much in demand) a few bays are often cordoned off for staff or on HSTs the buffet car is used (as a small separate vehicle it is ideal - I'm not keen on staff travelling in first in uniform in general but in this case it makes perfect sense).

On units without FC we are just told to get on with it in a nutshell. It's not really possible to partition a 15x. If the saloon is too busy the instruction for drivers/guards is to ask the guard if they mind you taking the second seat in the rear cab (at their discretion) or a seat in a middle cab if available, or at worst a taxi can be provided. I am always quite happy to allow colleagues to share my cab (provided they have been trained on the operating rules), others are less so.

 

[ChilternTurbo]

The GWR service I used (IET) from Hereford to Paddington this week had the leading first class carriage designated for staff use only. I only know that because I missed the signage and was politely asked more into the next carriage when I initially seated myself there. I did get a couple of cups of tea and some biscuits from the apologetic train manager which was nice as wasn't expecting any catering at all.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Hmm is this supposed to be the case for every unit at the moment? I've travelled on a few 166 services over the last couple of months and it seemed random luck of if the old 1st class areas were closed off from the public or not.

 

[D2007wsm]

I caught a 166 the Wednesday before last and the ex First Class section at the back was definitely open to regular passengers. The one at the front was empty so presumably for staff use.

 

[Parallel]

It varies from train to train, and presumably the crew operating it.

 

[philthetube]

Not to sound rude, but why do staff travelling passenger (of which there are generally none or very few) require a designated space to be kept for them all of the time?

On a 2 car 150 we're talking a good third or so of the train out of use to passengers, which isn't going to help social distancing at all.

A driver would be entitled to refuse to travel on a service as part of their duty if social distancing was not possible, in fact the toc's have a responsibility to ensure that social distancing is possible for employees

Get a dozen drivers in a day refusing to travel and the network would collapse.

 

[MCSHF007]

Any staff travelling pass on Lner should be using half of coach C.

Really? In my experience (admittedly all pre-Covid) all LNER (& EMT/EMR & XC) staff always (rightly or wrongly) travel PASS in first class.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Btw there's 2+2 seating at the end of the middle coach as well.

There is but it's got very poor window alignment! Suppose we can't have it all though.

Yes, I have witnessed this happening with 166s on my daily commute. I understand why they’re doing it but it’s a bit frustrating as a passenger as some peak trains on the route now are busy and it’s not possible to socially distance on board with one third of two carriages out of use. Then you can see an off duty member of train crew enjoying 4 tables/16 seats to themselves!

Like I said, I see why they’re doing it to protect staff but it just gives the impression that passengers are second best and it doesn’t matter as much if they’re all crammed in. If they were running 5 coach 16xs, it wouldn’t be as much of an issue as there’d be more room to spread out.

Agreed, I don't think it looks appealing from a customer point of view. Even if just one section was locked out of use it wouldn't be so bad, but to have both locked is a bit extreme as that's 32 seats gone for the sake of maybe 3 to 4 staff members? Also passengers are the ones paying to travel on that service.

If it was an early morning or late night service it wouldn't be an issue. But the problem now is that people are starting to travel again and trains are getting busier. Caught the 18:37 from Bath to Cardiff on Thursday and it was fairly well loaded. Got on at Bath and the only seat free was a bay of 6, which I took but felt a bit selfish. But it was particularly frustrating seeing everybody have to cram in to one section of the train and not maintain social distancing when there weren't actually any members of staff travelling on the train!

 

[221129]

Also passengers are the ones paying to travel on that service

Irrelevant. Without the staff, there would be NO service.

 

[800001]

Really? In my experience (admittedly all pre-Covid) all LNER (& EMT/EMR & XC) staff always (rightly or wrongly) travel PASS in first class.

Since covid they should be in C

 

[43096]

Irrelevant. Without the staff, there would be NO service.

Without passengers, there will be no need for staff.

 

[dk1]

Without passengers, there will be no need for staff.

Oh I dont know about that. There are some excellent examples across the UK where you wouldnt expect any passengers whatsoever

 

[ValleyLines142]

Irrelevant. Without the staff, there would be NO service.

Doesn't make a difference. It is completely unacceptable, especially when trains are busier.

 

[dk1]

The complete fleet renewal has been a godsend in my neck of the woods. The fact drivers do the doors means that unless say a passcom is activated or degraded working in operation, conductors have no need to enter passenger saloons therefore not needing any area to be sealed off. It was done for a time on 745s between Norwich & London for the benefit of Stadler tech staff travelling behind the driver. There are so many seats on these trains it made no difference at all to passengers. Traincrew with us also no longer use rail replacement buses instead individual taxis are used for each member. Those in 'training bubbles' are permitted to travel together but only if they personally agree.

 

[pompeyfan]

Doesn't make a difference. It is completely unacceptable, especially when trains are busier.

let’s play devils advocate then... how are staff supposed to travel safely at work? As others have said employers have a duty of care to provide a safe environment to their staff. Passengers on trains choose to be there, employees are rostered to be there.

 

[dk1]

let’s play devils advocate then... how are staff supposed to travel safely at work? As others have said employers have a duty of care to provide a safe environment to their staff. Passengers on trains choose to be their, employees are rostered to be there.

Exactly. No member of staff is going to put themselves at risk & no operator would dare put their employees in that position. If a safe way of working isn't put into place then the train doesn't run. It's as simple a second that.

 

[ValleyLines142]

let’s play devils advocate then... how are staff supposed to travel safely at work? As others have said employers have a duty of care to provide a safe environment to their staff. Passengers on trains choose to be their, employees are rostered to be there.

Could say the same thing about passengers. How are they supposed to travel safely?

What happens if a 166 comes in, and it's busy? Okay, pre-COVID, for me personally I'd just sit next to someone or stand in the vestibule area. But that can't happen now. All very well waiting for the next train but a) that means being late for work/appointments/connections and b) the following train could be the same.

I salute every single member of rail staff that has worked during the pandemic. I really do. Without them there'd be no service. But we need to look at the bigger picture. There are passengers too.

As I mentioned earlier up thread. Close ONE first class section off, not both.

 

[LowLevel]

Cross Country came up with the solution of having the two tables behind the cab in coaxh C of their 170s for staff travel blocked off in the reservation system. Unfortunately dodging scrotes with county lines phones seem particularly fond of that part of the train!

 

[pompeyfan]

Could say the same thing about passengers. How are they supposed to travel safely?

What happens if a 166 comes in, and it's busy? Okay, pre-COVID, for me personally I'd just sit next to someone or stand in the vestibule area. But that can't happen now. All very well waiting for the next train but a) that means being late for work/appointments/connections and b) the following train could be the same.

I salute every single member of rail staff that has worked during the pandemic. I really do. Without them there'd be no service. But we need to look at the bigger picture. There are passengers too.

As I mentioned earlier up thread. Close ONE first class section off, not both.

passengers take the associated risk that comes with commuting during a pandemic, hoping that the TOC and their fellow travellers are doing what they can to protect everyone.

I had seen the post about only locking one FC section out, but missed that it was from yourself so apologies. I agree that seems a sensible solution.

 

[ValleyLines142]

passengers take the associated risk that comes with commuting during a pandemic, hoping that the TOC and their fellow travellers are doing what they can to protect everyone.

I had seen the post about only locking one FC section out, but missed that it was from yourself so apologies. I agree that seems a sensible solution.

Agreed, can't always control what fellow passengers do, but TOCs CAN control what they do. I will speak to GWR about having one section locked.

 

[delt1c]

Doesn't make a difference. It is completely unacceptable, especially when trains are busier.

Its a chicken and egg situation, the TOC has a duty of care to both passengers and staff. Whatever the TOC does someone will says its wrong.

 

[leedstraindude]

The reason both ends will be shut will be for when the train changes direction en route or between journeys. It will not be practical to deep clean that area on all those occasions.

 

[43096]

The reason both ends will be shut will be for when the train changes direction en route or between journeys. It will not be practical to deep clean that area on all those occasions.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Just designate one area and stick to it.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Its a chicken and egg situation, the TOC has a duty of care to both passengers and staff. Whatever the TOC does someone will says its wrong.

There's way of going about it, though.

I note today the 1530 Cardiff to Portsmouth was a 165+166, with the 166 declassified FC section open as well.

If the 166s are going to have more or less the equivalent of half a coach blocked off, then to compensate a 165 needs to be tagged on where possible.

 

[387star]

There's way of going about it, though.

I note today the 1530 Cardiff to Portsmouth was a 165+166, with the 166 declassified FC section open as well.

If the 166s are going to have more or less the equivalent of half a coach blocked off, then to compensate a 165 needs to be tagged on where possible.

Back to 5 cars with new diagrams from this week

 

[delt1c]

There's way of going about it, though.

I note today the 1530 Cardiff to Portsmouth was a 165+166, with the 166 declassified FC section open as well.

If the 166s are going to have more or less the equivalent of half a coach blocked off, then to compensate a 165 needs to be tagged on where possible.

I dont disagree , however we are in difficult times at the moment so we all have to make the best of what is available. What is needed is a goverment cash injection to fund lengthening trains in order to keep social distancing. TOC are businesses and have limited funds

 

[CC 72100]

There's way of going about it, though.

I note today the 1530 Cardiff to Portsmouth was a 165+166, with the 166 declassified FC section open as well.

If the 166s are going to have more or less the equivalent of half a coach blocked off, then to compensate a 165 needs to be tagged on where possible.

It's not the equivalent of half a coach. It is 4 tables/16 seats. The sections at the end of the coach where the toilet is seat the same amount, and the middle bit (the main saloon between the doors) must seat over double that. It's more like a quarter of the coach.

If a 3 coach turbo has 80 seats per coach, we are talking about 12-15% of total capacity lost per 3-car unit, if that.