lyndhurst25
Established Member
- Joined
- 26 Nov 2010
- Messages
- 1,406
(I am aware of this previous closed thread - Mods., merge if you think that is appropriate - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/carlisle-security-and-northern-rail-major-concerns.156426/ )
This happened to me today, they've now got my date of birth on file, and I'm not happy about the way it was handled.
My journey was from from Romiley to Rose Hill Marple. I've never used either station before. At Romiley I looked for and did not find the ticket office. Looking into the station entrance there are just some dimly-lit stairs which I assumed led up to the Manchester-bound platform. There are no signs that I saw indicating that a ticket office ticket office exists. I have since learned apparently one does: hidden, up the stairs and somewhere around the corner. However, a sign at the doorway says "Access for trains to Marple, Sheffield under roadbridge & left into carpark". So I went under the roadbridge to the Rose Hill-bound platform. Should I have searched harder to find the ticket office? If so, my bad.
There is a ticket vending machine on the Rose Hill Marple-bound platform, which I used to try and buy my £2.40 single ticket. I get as far as inserting my credit card before it pauses for a long time and then says that there is a problem verifying my credit card and advises me to speak to a member of staff. Assuming my credit card may be faulty, I use then use the machine to obtain a Promise to Pay Permit, with the intention of paying either on the train or at Rose Hill Marple.
On the train no one is collecting fares. On arrival at Rose Hill Marple the ticket office is closed. Around six Carlisle Security also got off my train and started inspecting tickets at the station exit. I presented my PtP Permit and a £5 note, asking for a single from Romiley. Firstly, I was asked for my name. I asked why they needed to know my name to buy a train ticket. They said it was because they could not accept cash or card payments so would need to bill me for the fare. I clarified that they were wanting to bill me for just the £2.40 fare and they said yes. Fair enough I suppose, so I willingly provided my name and address.
Next, they wanted my date of birth. Initially I refused to give it, saying that they did not need the information to bill me for the fare owed. A discussion was had about this between the person dealing with me and another of the inspectors. They then said that they would have to issue me with a Penalty Fare if I did not supply my DoB. They said that they were within their rights do this because I should have bought a ticket at Romiley ticket office, which I explained that I looked for and did not find, however they would issue with me with a £2.40 Unpaid Fare Notice if I supplied them with my DoB. Taking the lesser of two evils, I reluctantly gave them my DoB. They said that they needed my DoB "For their records, in case you get caught doing the same again". I was then issued with an Upaid Fare Notice for the £2.40 fare owing.
I'm not happy about the lack of signs to the ticket office at Romiley potentially leaving people open to Penalty Fares or prosecution. I'm slightly annoyed that Carlisle can't take payments so have issue UFNs and collect people's names and addresses. However, I'm fuming that Carlisle Security have demanded and got my date of birth under duress: my understanding is that they have no right to demand this information.
Can they even issue a Penalty Fare if I've got a Promise to Pay Permit? If they can then Northern TVMs shouldn't be issuing PtP Permits at stations during the times that the ticket office is open.
This happened to me today, they've now got my date of birth on file, and I'm not happy about the way it was handled.
My journey was from from Romiley to Rose Hill Marple. I've never used either station before. At Romiley I looked for and did not find the ticket office. Looking into the station entrance there are just some dimly-lit stairs which I assumed led up to the Manchester-bound platform. There are no signs that I saw indicating that a ticket office ticket office exists. I have since learned apparently one does: hidden, up the stairs and somewhere around the corner. However, a sign at the doorway says "Access for trains to Marple, Sheffield under roadbridge & left into carpark". So I went under the roadbridge to the Rose Hill-bound platform. Should I have searched harder to find the ticket office? If so, my bad.
There is a ticket vending machine on the Rose Hill Marple-bound platform, which I used to try and buy my £2.40 single ticket. I get as far as inserting my credit card before it pauses for a long time and then says that there is a problem verifying my credit card and advises me to speak to a member of staff. Assuming my credit card may be faulty, I use then use the machine to obtain a Promise to Pay Permit, with the intention of paying either on the train or at Rose Hill Marple.
On the train no one is collecting fares. On arrival at Rose Hill Marple the ticket office is closed. Around six Carlisle Security also got off my train and started inspecting tickets at the station exit. I presented my PtP Permit and a £5 note, asking for a single from Romiley. Firstly, I was asked for my name. I asked why they needed to know my name to buy a train ticket. They said it was because they could not accept cash or card payments so would need to bill me for the fare. I clarified that they were wanting to bill me for just the £2.40 fare and they said yes. Fair enough I suppose, so I willingly provided my name and address.
Next, they wanted my date of birth. Initially I refused to give it, saying that they did not need the information to bill me for the fare owed. A discussion was had about this between the person dealing with me and another of the inspectors. They then said that they would have to issue me with a Penalty Fare if I did not supply my DoB. They said that they were within their rights do this because I should have bought a ticket at Romiley ticket office, which I explained that I looked for and did not find, however they would issue with me with a £2.40 Unpaid Fare Notice if I supplied them with my DoB. Taking the lesser of two evils, I reluctantly gave them my DoB. They said that they needed my DoB "For their records, in case you get caught doing the same again". I was then issued with an Upaid Fare Notice for the £2.40 fare owing.
I'm not happy about the lack of signs to the ticket office at Romiley potentially leaving people open to Penalty Fares or prosecution. I'm slightly annoyed that Carlisle can't take payments so have issue UFNs and collect people's names and addresses. However, I'm fuming that Carlisle Security have demanded and got my date of birth under duress: my understanding is that they have no right to demand this information.
Can they even issue a Penalty Fare if I've got a Promise to Pay Permit? If they can then Northern TVMs shouldn't be issuing PtP Permits at stations during the times that the ticket office is open.