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TV Licensing

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Tetchytyke

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I thought the distinction for whether you needed a license or not was whether the device had a TV tuner so a computer with monitor wouldn't normally need a license but if a TV tuner card was installed then a license would be needed. According to the TV licensing site they now claim that it's whether the device is used for live TV or not regardless if it's through an aerial or streamed.

The law was updated a few years ago. It is illegal to watch live TV on any device, or to watch TV programming on iPlayer on any device, without a licence. TV Licensing are telling the truth.

The distinction for mobile devices remains whether it is plugged in. If it's not plugged in you need a licence at home, if it's plugged in you need it where you are. Starbucks put signs up saying you couldn't watch TV in their stores if you were charging your phone. They weren't being difficult, they were protecting themselves.

As for the BBC, I find it amazing how a Venn Diagram of people who rail against "diversity" and who rail against BBC "turd" would usually look like this: O

I don't think the TV Tax should be a criminal matter either, FWIW, for mainly the same reasons I don't think fare evasion should be. Crapita can't be trusted with the power they have and they use it to exploit the most vulnerable.


If the BBC was funded from general taxation, then the government could use their budget as a weapon to get them to do what they wanted, undermining such impartiality.

The government choose the terms of the TV Licence, so the same thing applies anyway!

The bias does work both ways, when Labour were in the boss' chair the BBC sucked up to them too. But I do think sucking up to the current Conservative Party leaders is more an act of suicide than anything else.

The list of past BBC Board/Trust chairmen makes interesting reading!
 
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mmh

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I received a threatening email from TV Licensing after I cancelled my direct debit for a licence for somewhere I hadn't lived and had been empty for 10 months. I'd have told them why, but after half an hour of looking I realised the one thing you couldn't tell them online was "goodbye."

I don't actually know how they had my email address, perhaps I'd given it them at some point in the past but I've always had a paper licence and never dealt with them online. I decided they could bugger off. No other "utility" treats its "customers" with such contempt.
 

The_Train

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The jusification - which I understand, and agree with to at least some extent - is that it's in the public interest for a broadcaster to exist which is duty-bound to at least try to be impartial. If the BBC was funded from general taxation, then the government could use their budget as a weapon to get them to do what they wanted, undermining such impartiality.

Whilst I understand a need for impartiality, particularly when it comes to Governments and their opposition, it still doesn't justify an organisation charging people a fee to not only access their services, but those of other organisations as well. I should not be paying the BBC money so that I can access TV broadcasting by ITV, Channel 4 or any of the other Freeview channels that are not BBC.

It wouldn't be accepted in any other walk of life, so why do the BBC continue to get away with this disgusting, archaic procedure?
 

py_megapixel

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It wouldn't be accepted in any other walk of life, so why do the BBC continue to get away with this disgusting, archaic procedure?
It's not really an access fee, it's a tax on everyone who owns a television.
That's why it's called a "TV license" and not a "BBC subscription fee"
What you're saying is analogous to complaining about your council tax being used to maintain roads you don't drive on.

The government choose the terms of the TV Licence, so the same thing applies anyway!
And that is exactly where the idea falls down. It's not perfect; far from it.
 

Tetchytyke

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It wouldn't be accepted in any other walk of life, so why do the BBC continue to get away with this disgusting, archaic procedure?

The TV Tax (and the Office for National Statistics count it as a tax) is not a subscription to the BBC, and it doesn't just pay for the BBC.

It's no different to a non-driver having to pay for the upkeep of roads, or a non-parent paying for the upkeep of a school.

Whether the BBC should be funded by tax is a different argument (and is one I largely agree with!)
 

Bald Rick

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Couple of letters received in the post today...

First from TV Licensing claiming that my TV Licence (due for renewal end August) hasn't been paid.

Second my bank statement for August showing that my cheque sent to TV Licensing in early August (together with their payment slip) was cashed on 14th August.

Anyone else experienced similar, and how easy was the issue to resolve? :frown:

P.S. Looks like someone on TrustPilot (Avril Harper) has had a similar issue...


This is absolutely shocking.

You paid by CHEQUE?
 

The_Train

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It's not really an access fee, it's a tax on everyone who owns a television.
That's why it's called a "TV license" and not a "BBC subscription fee"
What you're saying is analogous to complaining about your council tax being used to maintain roads you don't drive on.


And that is exactly where the idea falls down. It's not perfect; far from it.

But it isn't a tax on television ownership. I can own a TV and watch Netflix and other streaming services without a TV license.
So it's not a television tax and it isn't a BBC Subscription fee - so what is it then?

The TV Tax (and the Office for National Statistics count it as a tax) is not a subscription to the BBC, and it doesn't just pay for the BBC.

It's no different to a non-driver having to pay for the upkeep of roads, or a non-parent paying for the upkeep of a school.

Whether the BBC should be funded by tax is a different argument (and is one I largely agree with!)

Taken from https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk
Over 90% of the licence fee is spent on BBC TV channels, radio stations, BBC iPlayer, BBC Sounds and online services.


I suppose that proves your point that it "doesn't just pay for the BBC" to be factually correct - not far off though is it and the BBC certainly don't do badly out of it. All the more amazing that they continue to serve up dross despite this funding.

So my point still stands really, it just requires a slight amendment - there is no justification to being charged a fee, which is mopped up by one organisation, to watch hundreds of channels unrelated to the organisation that is benefiting from it. It can be portrayed however you like, but the reality is that it is a tax which funds the BBC and little else!

And for any avoidance of doubt, I will happily pay the 10% that is left over for the rest of television. £15* per year to access hundreds of channels is not so bad compared to the £140* per year we are seemingly paying for a few BBC channels, along with a few online services (*approximate figures used here ;) )
 

Sean Davidson

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Not that they ever worked!!! Fantastic piece of fear mongering though.


When I was at Uni in halls of residence like clockwork every October hundreds of letters from TV Licensing would appear and would slowly gather dust in the post pigeon holes until an enterprising clean binned them all. I made friends with some of the support staff at the hall (always befriend the support staff you never know when it might be useful!) and they related to me that one year an inspector had come to the door and demanded to be allowed entry to the halls and shown into every room to check whether the students were watching TV illegally or not. Apparently the response from member of staff who answered the door was less than polite. They never did come back and try to check again. Still sent the letter though like clockwork :rolleyes:



Ah well you see that's because their so secretive that no-one person knows how they work! I'm not making it up, just quoting their own website!!



I used to live in a large tower block, 25 floors each with eight flats, there was no way a detector van would have been of any use in there.
 

Bletchleyite

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The jusification - which I understand, and agree with to at least some extent - is that it's in the public interest for a broadcaster to exist which is duty-bound to at least try to be impartial. If the BBC was funded from general taxation, then the government could use their budget as a weapon to get them to do what they wanted, undermining such impartiality.

While I'm a fan of the Beeb and happy to pay for it, arguably Channel 4 is better at that - how is that funded? It's not fully commercial.
 

AM9

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While I'm a fan of the Beeb and happy to pay for it, arguably Channel 4 is better at that - how is that funded? It's not fully commercial.
Actually it is fully funded by commerciaal activities, although it is in effect a publically owned not-for-profit corporation. I agree that it is the 'best of the rest' of the TV operations but it does have the inevitable disruptive advertisment breaks that only the BBC avoids.
 

Tetchytyke

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And that is exactly where the idea falls down. It's not perfect; far from it.

I find it strange how, anywhere else in the world, "state broadcaster" is shorthand for "state mouthpiece". But somehow the BBC are above all that.

I think they will come to regret sucking up to the latest leaders, though. They're playground bullies. Soft-soaping Priti Patel, as they did this morning, won't save them.
 

trebor79

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Here's how my friend dealt with them when they kept pestering his deceased mother [I know it's the Mirror but his annotations to their letters are quite amusing]:

And in another reply to a further letter this month he said: "Sorry, I'm still dead, and so don't really watch much telly. Please leave me and my son alone.

"Yours, the late Mrs Brewis."

Chemistry teacher David said his replies were meant to be "tongue-in-cheek" as well as "slightly passive aggressive".

You don't have to give them anything. They will keep sending letters of an increasingly threatening nature with the assumption that you are committing an offence, gradually these letters will get to the point they tell you someone is coming to visit. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't but you can happily ignore them if they turn up.
We used to have great fun as students. We did have a TV but used it only for games consoles and watching Starship Troopers, Pulp Fiction and The Big Lebowski on DVD. We ignored the threatening letters. Then one day the doorbell goes. Law student answers it, it's the TV licencing goons.
"Have you got a television?"
"I don't have to answer that"
"Can we come in and verify that you don't have a television?"
"Do you have a warrant?"
"No"
"Well, you can piss off then". Slam

They called again a few months later, bit sneakier this time. After being denied entry "I'm desperate for a wee mate, could I use your toilet?"
 

Darandio

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They called again a few months later, bit sneakier this time. After being denied entry "I'm desperate for a wee mate, could I use your toilet?"

Indeed, very sneaky. There are also videos online of them posing as parcel couriers in order to get the occupant to open the door.
 

adc82140

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The TV Licence is there to pay for programming that would not be commercially viable for any other channel. It's called Public Service Broadcasting. For example can you see ITV producing a serious programme for rail enthusiasts? (I don't mean lightweight stuff like C5's Paddington 24/7 with fake suspense etc) They wouldn't because it wouldn't attract ad revenue. The BBC could though, using licence money. And if enough people campaigned they would have to. There are many other minority interests catered for by the beeb too that could not sustainably fund themselves through advertising. The Sky at Night, Radio 3, etc.

The likes of Strictly actually turn a profit through overseas rights sales.

However I do think the licence fee model is now outdated. There are too many other sources of content. Subscription won't work, as there would not be enough income to produce the programming. Nor would the US style public television tin rattle. Perhaps a broadband levy? Or stick it on the council tax like they do in France..
 
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Scotrail12

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The likes of Strictly actually turn a profit through overseas rights sales.

So why can't shows like Strictly be for free then if they make money in other ways? They've sold it to several other countries over the years so if that makes them money, then I wonder why we still have to pay the license fee to watch it.

For all of those countries abroad with an equivalent version, they don't have to pay.
 

adc82140

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The profits from Strictly etc are reinvested to make the minority programmes and keep the cost of the licence down.
 

trebor79

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BBC is almost indistinguishable from commercial stations now, except for the lack of adverts.
Same rubbish reality, talent and soap opera shows. Same music on the radio.
The only channels than can't be easily replicated are BBC 4 (though the quality of that has notably declined recently), Radio 4 and Radio 6.
I have no problem paying a fee for something that the commercial world can't do. I hate paying it just to see the BBC try and compete with the commercial world.
 

stevetay3

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In context to what’s happening re the tv licence. How on earth can the BBC give Zoe Ball a 1 million pound pay rise for playing rubbish records on the radio. What planet are thay on.
 

adc82140

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BBC is almost indistinguishable from commercial stations now, except for the lack of adverts.
Same rubbish reality, talent and soap opera shows. Same music on the radio.
The only channels than can't be easily replicated are BBC 4 (though the quality of that has notably declined recently), Radio 4 and Radio 6.
I have no problem paying a fee for something that the commercial world can't do. I hate paying it just to see the BBC try and compete with the commercial world.
I challenge you to find the output from Radio 3 anywhere else.
 

mmh

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For example can you see ITV producing a serious programme for rail enthusiasts? (I don't mean lightweight stuff like C5's Paddington 24/7 with fake suspense etc) They wouldn't because it wouldn't attract ad revenue. The BBC could though, using licence money.

I can't see the BBC doing so either, as they haven't and they don't have a fantastic history of niche programming, although have managed to acquire a reputation that they have.

And if enough people campaigned they would have to.

I disagree. Their obligations are set out. They don't have to listen to campaigners and are used to not doing so.

There are many other minority interests catered for by the beeb too that could not sustainably fund themselves through advertising. The Sky at Night, Radio 3, etc.

The Sky at Night? A monthly programme, they're spoiling us. Radio 3 I'll grant you would be unlikely to survive with its format unchanged commercially. What do amateur astronomers and classical listeners do elsewhere?

The profits from Strictly etc are reinvested to make the minority programmes and keep the cost of the licence down.

... to pay Jeremy Vine and Gary Lineker's modest wages.

I challenge you to find the output from Radio 3 anywhere else.

It's noteworthy that the bits of the BBC which people defend are the "cheap" bits.
 

adc82140

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Maintaining a symphony orchestra and running the proms doesn't come cheap.
 

py_megapixel

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Classic FM?
Same concept, but nowhere near the same quality. The presenters always seem to be waffling about something irrelevant (often gardening), and it's incredibly repetitive.
I have nothing against gardening, but it's not classical music, which is what I expect to hear when I tune into a station called Classic FM
 

stevetay3

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The bbc did a show a few years back called train spotting live, all it did was take the p out of the hobby and paint enthusiasts as low in IQ. We don’t need more of that.
 

nlogax

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Have to admit the last six months have had me reappraising my consumption across all BBC content. Per week it typically looks like this;
  • A single podcast
  • Maybe half an hour of R4
  • Same for London news
  • Couple of minutes browsing local weather
..and that's it. Compared to how much traditional telly and news intake came from the BBC.

£12.56 per month isn't noticeable to me and I don't mind continuing to pay for what I'm still using. For all the whining about supposed left and right bias in their news reporting, I just don't see it and the news organisation still seems to play a fairly straight bat. It IS obvious the license fee's days are numbers as the Beeb struggles to maintain its relevance across all audiences.

if you want a decent R3 or Classic FM alternative then try Scala Radio.
 

mmh

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Maintaining a symphony orchestra and running the proms doesn't come cheap.

A drop in the ocean alongside the TV budget, though. Ignoring whether or not there should be a BBC orchestra (I'm in two minds), I wonder how many people realise there are five BBC orchestras. I could understand someone thinking that's quite extragavagant.
 

adc82140

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if you want a decent R3 or Classic FM alternative then try Scala Radio.

Scala's a good listen, but it's different to Radio 3, as is Classic FM. It's a bit like comparing Iron Maiden to S Club 7 because they're both "pop music"
 

mmh

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Have to admit the last six months have had me reappraising my consumption across all BBC content. Per week it typically looks like this;
  • A single podcast
  • Maybe half an hour of R4
  • Same for London news
  • Couple of minutes browsing local weather
..and that's it. Compared to how much traditional telly and news intake came from the BBC.

That made me wonder what my BBC consumption looked like. I started wondering "which shows do I regularly watch," then realised I watch so few these days I can probably list them all. In days gone by I would have been watching far, far more including almost all BBC sitcoms religiously. So here goes:

- Pointless (BBC1, although I prefer The Chase)
- Weatherman Walking (BBC Wales)
- Tudur's TV Flashback (BBC Wales)
- Pobol y Cwm (BBC for S4C)
- S4C News (BBC for S4C)
- Various repeats on UKTV channels e.g. Would I Lie To You, QI, Allo Allo, Porridge (do these count?)
- Ken Bruce for Popmaster (Radio 2)
- Wynne Evans (the Go-Compare man, seriously) (Radio Wales)
- Rhys Mwyn (Welsh language punk/alternative music) (Radio Cymru)
- BBC Weather website / app (my only BBC web use left, sadly News and Sport went downhill badly)

Not much at all, and a lot of it could fit in the minority/niche categories that some defend the BBC for, while others might reasonably question why a national and compulsory "TV Licence" is funding it.
 
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