Sad Sprinter
Established Member
Does anyone know much about the 1970s plan to build the Channel Tunnel? For instance, what stock would have been used through the tunnel and where the London terminus would be?
so not the 1970s planned trains. Yes, as I recall images were as Taunton says. I think a Class 83 type AC loco.Universal Networkers Class 342 was for the CTRL's domestic services. Never got beyond the proposal stage.
so not the 1970s planned trains. Yes, as I recall images were as Taunton says. I think a Class 83 type AC loco.
Transcript from a 1961 Trains Illustrated article that must have been looking forwards:
although scheme details probably altered after this description (which may not have been official govt one?)
Later 60s images with a working model railway in this pathe clip - in pathe's usual style!
Does indeed look like Hornby were the rolling stock contractor...
so not the 1970s planned trains. Yes, as I recall images were as Taunton says. I think a Class 83 type AC loco.
Transcript from a 1961 Trains Illustrated article that must have been looking forwards:
although scheme details probably altered after this description (which may not have been official govt one?)
Later 60s images with a working model railway in this pathe clip - in pathe's usual style!
Does indeed look like Hornby were the rolling stock contractor...
I can't post an image from my book
Work the building of the channel tunnel. Page 56 and 57
Under the 1989 proposal
The route was to run to Waterloo and Kings Cross (via tunnel through the south part of London) via Ashford.
In the Railway metropolis page 153 there is a map of the routes proposed at various points:
some very interesting routes
- 1972: Folkestone-Ashford -Tonbridge-Croydon and to a terminus at Kensington Olympia
- 1988: Folkestone-Ashford- East of Tonbridge- Maidstone (westside of the town)- Swanley-Waterloo
- 1989: Folkestone-Ashford- Maidstone East side of the town- Swanley North- Waterloo and Kings Cross
- Rail Europe had a route from Ashford to the Isle of Grain (or around there) to Stratford and London
@Sad Sprinter hope this helps
Stock i believe was universal networkers (correct me if i am wrong)
Transcript from a 1961 Trains Illustrated article that must have been looking forwards:
I don't know about Google Books, but I was able to "borrow" a copy for an hour on the Internet Archive (requires free registration): Link.Thanks, I'll have a look and see if theres any useful sections previewed on Google Books.
and that was the 1970s tunnel!!but the eventual decision was that retention tanks would be widespread by the time the tunnel opened.
I think the original short section of tunnel (around quarter of a mile long) was eventually used as an access tunnel to the work site of the current tunnel?Am I right in thinking that a small amount of digging actually occurred? If so, how much?
Yes - I was thinking that even at the end the 1970s scheme was projecting an opening in 1980, and as the debate over toilets seems to have been pre-1970 it's likely that an even earlier opening date was predicted at that stage, so the conclusion on retention tanks appears to have been rather optimistic.and that was the 1970s tunnel!!
Yes, can't recall which UK rolling stock was the 1st to be built WITH retention toilets (apart from maybe sleepers) I'm wondering if it would have been in the 1990s?Yes - I was thinking that even at the end the 1970s scheme was projecting an opening in 1980, and as the debate over toilets seems to have been pre-1970 it's likely that an even earlier opening date was predicted at that stage, so the conclusion on retention tanks appears to have been rather optimistic.
Yes, can't recall which UK rolling stock was the 1st to be built WITH retention toilets (apart from maybe sleepers) I'm wondering if it would have been in the 1990s?
319's certainly - then the diesel turbo fleet. (from memory) , along of course with the MK3 sleepers.Wasn't it the 317s on account of the Moorgate services?
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I visited the National Railway Museum a couple of weeks ago and there is this 1970s model of a Channel Tunnel rail link, running parallel with the existing line, and featuring decidedly continental stock!
No, that was a working N guage model railway and its now (well, half of it) on display at the Elham Valley line.Was this layout originally at the Eurotunnel visitor centre at Ashford? I seem to recall that it used the 'continental' stock.
Wasn't there an even earlier proposal, with Edward Watkin involved, which actually dug about a mile of tunnel in the 1890's?
This is pretty much spot on. The huge costs proposed by BR for the rail link are what killed off the 1970's proposal for the Channel Tunnel, not the cost of the Channel Tunnel itself.What I always found astonishing was that the Southern Region of BR formally objected to the project because it would disrupt their commuter network, and also damage their cross-Channel ferry business (Sealink being then still in BR hands).
It shows how powerful the BR Regions were in those days, against a relatively weak BR HQ.
BR HQ kept looking for routes/terminals which would placate the SR, but the government gave up as the route costs escalated.
I think the last suggestion before cancellation in 1975 was to run from Folkestone as far as Edenbridge and then turn up the Oxted line, with a tunnel under Croydon to eventually reach Kensington.
IN doing so , they found coal seams. Which later became the "Kent Coal field" - well 4 pits anyway.Indeed so, 1881/2. About a mile bored either side.
There had been numerous proposals for a tunnel under the channel throughout the 19th Century including one by Napoleon, but the first serious attempt to build a tunnel came with an Act of Parliament in 1875 authorising the Channel Tunnel Company Ltd. to start preliminary trials. This was an Anglo French project with a simultaneous Act of Parliament in France. By 1877 several shafts had been sunk to a depth of 330 feet at Sangatte in France but initial work carried out at St. Margaret’s Bay, to the east of Dover had to be abandoned due to flooding. In 1880 under the direction of Sir Edward Watkin, Chairman of the South Eastern Railway, a new shaft (No. 1 shaft) was sunk at Abbot’s Cliff, between Dover and Folkestone with a horizontal gallery being driven along the cliff, 10 feet above the high water mark. This seven foot diameter pilot tunnel was eventually to be enlarged to standard gauge with a connection to the South Eastern Railway.
After Welsh miners had bored 800 feet of tunnel a second shaft (No 2) was sunk at Shakespeare Cliff in February 1881. This tunnel was started under the foreshore heading towards a mid channel meeting with the French pilot tunnel......... eventually the Board of Trade applied for a High Court order giving them access to the Shakespeare Cliff heading; following this the tunneling stopped. Following the inspection the Board recommended that the work should cease but Watkin again ignored this request and continued boring the tunnel whenever there were no visitors.
By the end of 1882 the Abbot’s Cliff heading had reached 897 yards and that at Shakespeare Cliff was 2,040 yards in length. The Board of Trade paid a further visit and reported that a further 70 yards had been bored in breach of the injunction as a result the Board took out further court proceedings against the company despite the fact that they later admitted their calculations were wrong.