Railway General Knowledge.

[DerekC]

Was a booster involved. A small auxilliary engine driving the trailing truck for additional power when starting a heavy load

Spot on - all were fitted by Gresley with experimental boosters. All except the S1s lasted only a very short time.

Your trailing load.

 

[341o2]

Can't think of a question, so declaring open floor

 

[DerekC]

OK - if nobody else wants a go.

Queen Victoria made her first journey by train on 13th June 1842 from Slough to the temporary Bishops Road terminus. On the footplate were Daniel Gooch, Isambard Kingdom Brunel and the Queen's Master of Horse. Also presumably a driver and fireman, so it must have been a bit crowded!

What was the name of the locomotive?

 

[Cowley]

OK - if nobody else wants a go.

Queen Victoria made her first journey by train on 13th June 1842 from Slough to the temporary Bishops Road terminus. On the footplate were Daniel Gooch, Isambard Kingdom Brunel and the Queen's Master of Horse. Also presumably a driver and fireman, so it must have been a bit crowded!

What was the name of the locomotive?

Ooh that’s a good one.
Was it FIRE FLY?

 

[DerekC]

Not Firefly, although the name has an association with fire - but don't be led up a creek here.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I think it was a Fire Fly class of locomotives but the name was to do with oxygen of fire like Phlogiston?

 

[DerekC]

I think it was a Fire Fly class of locomotives but the name was to do with oxygen of fire like Phlogiston?

You are getting hot - it was a Firefly class locomotive. You have the right language and the right base word! It was a very odd choice for a locomotive to haul the royal train, but apparently was new ex-works less than a month, so I guess was still very shiny! Maybe Brunel wasn't so hot on Greek mythology.

 

[Cowley]

Was it Phosphorus?

 

[DerekC]

Not Phosphorus. For those with a musical interest, the name appears (very appropriately) in "The Residents" album Hades.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Lucifer?

 

[DerekC]

Lucifer?

You are definitely in the right domain, but something more fire-related. Here's a list of the "Firefly" class to help things along. Remember the name is taken from a piece of Greek mythology:

Leopard, Fire Ball, Fire King, Fire Brand, Fire Fly, Charon, Panther, Lynx, Stag, Hawk, Vulture, Cyclops, Falcon, Ostrich, Greyhound, Mazeppa, Arab, Jupiter, Cerebus, Achilles, Milo, Saturn, Arrow, Dart, Hector, Mars, Harpy, Pluto, Castor, Mentor, Lucifer, Minos, Ixion, Mercury, Venus, Gorgon, Hecate, Bellona, Vesta, Actaeon, Centaur, Acheron, Erebus, Medea, Damon, Electra, Orion, Priam, Lethe, Hydra, Phlegethon, Medusa, Proserpine, Ganymede, Pollux, Argus, Phoenix, Pegasus, Stentor.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Has to be Phlegethon then.

 

[DerekC]

Has to be Phlegethon then.

That's the one. Variously described as a river of blood or the river of fire which conveys souls down into the depths of hell whilst keeping them alive to suffer further torment! Just the thing for a royal train!!

Your (hopefully not too hot) floor.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Can’t think of a question so open floor please.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

In the 1980s Talerddig was locally in-famous for something other than the Bank, for what?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

In the 1980s Talerddig was locally in-famous for something other than the Bank, for what?

Not sure about the 1980s, but in the 2000s was a place you'd often find yourself waiting quite some time for a late-running crossing service. Some of these waits might have been timetabled anyway, so I'll go for that- it was infamous for chomping up any would-be slack in the schedule.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

Were there several and regular landslips which caused the closure of the line for longish periods?

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Those are not the answers I am looking for
There was a collection of things one could see from the train. Or from the road, used to be a good place to cycle when there was less traffic back then

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Clue: someone seemed to be sort of trying to emulate Dai Woodham

 

[341o2]

Not a collection of derelict rolling stock?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Vic Berrys ?

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Not a collection of derelict rolling stock?

Yes, on rubber tyres, I guess it was a second hand car dealer who took too many vehicles in part-exchange, there must have been scores of them on either side of the A470
Over to you

 

[341o2]

A while back, I mentioned the collision at Abermule, between two trains on a single line section, supposedly protected by the tablet system.

I note four issues of non adherence to regulations in force as well as actions/inactions of the station staff, as well as an issue with the station itself

What were they?

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

The driver took a staff, but did not check which one it was?
The station lad did something beyond his authority?
..

 

[SteveM70]

I did an essay about this at school. Cribbed from library books, the 80s equivalent of kids using Wikipedia I suppose. Failure to check the tablet as LSWR Cavalier says. I think this was pretty widespread in those days as opening the pouch and checking the tablet was the right one was seen as an indication of lack of trust

Plus:

- Unauthorised individuals operating the tablet machines, out of convenience because they were badly sited

- No interlocking between the tablet machines on the platform and the signals controlled from the box which meant conflicting movements could be authorised.

Can’t think of a fourth. Lack of communication maybe?

 

[341o2]

Between yourselves, you have covered 3 out of 5. the only thing re the tablet is that it was given to the fireman as the driver was attending to his engine.

Yes, the layout was poor as it had a signalbox at one end, the tablet instruments in the station building, and a ground frame at the other end.
Only the stationmaster and signalman were authorised to use the tablet machine, in practice anybody did.
And it was usual practice not to check the tablet.
There remains the issues of the stationmaster and general conduct of the station staff, can someone provide more detail?

 

[SteveM70]

So, my recollection (and this is about 35 years ago when I read into Abermule) is that:

- the stationmaster was on holiday and a relief was working, and even he may not have been around at the time of the crash. Having his dinner break maybe, I can’t remember the detail

- there were I think three other members of staff, a signalman, a Porter and a trainee of some sort who was only 14

- not only did unauthorised people operate the tablet machine, it was effectively a free for all with more than one person dealing with the management of a single train, with little or no communication between them. In this case one of them (the porter?) took the tablet from the westbound train but passed it without comment to one of the others. He then assumed it was the tablet for the section ahead (but didn’t check) so went to give it to the driver (ie giving him back the same tablet he’d just surrendered). The tablet was actually given to the fireman who didn’t check it

- there was some confusion as to the location of the eastbound train and whether the trains would cross at Abermule or Newtown and incorrect assumptions were made without checking, which led to the stopping train being given the road into the occupied section

 

[341o2]

Not much wrong with your memory then.

The two issues were that the stationmaster did not supervise his staff, and as you say, they just did their own thing without reference to anyone else.

Four stations involved - Montgomery, Abermule, Newtown and Moat Lane.
Staff on duty at Abermule were Stationmaster Lewis, Signalman Jones, Porter Rogers and Trainee Thompson.

Lewis took his lunch break, on return, a member of the PW crew wanted his attention, so he went to the goods yard without checking what his staff were doing, or how the trains were running.

Montgomery asked Abermule "line clear?" and Jones gave permission, He then checked how the express coming from Aberystwyth was running and was told "in the vicinity of Moat Lane", he then went to the signalbox to set the road for the stopping train from Montgomery.
Newtown then asked "Line clear?" and Rogers gave permission. Rogers then went to the ground frame to set the road for the express, but found it locked by Jones. While everyone was elsewhere, Newtown gave "train in section" but nobody heard it.
The stopping train from Montgomery arrived, Thompson took the pouch containing the tablet and was on his way to the tablet instruments, when he encountered Lewis, and gave him the pouch without further ado, he was going to collect the tickets, mentioning that the express "was in the vicinity of Moat Lane"

Lewis then handed the pouch to the fireman of the stopping train without checking it, he could not have withdrawn the correct tablet anyway, as Newtown had locked it. Assuming that the crossing of the two trains would now take place at Newtown, Lewis gave right of way.

And that is how two trains collided head on in a single track section.

Steve M70, your floor

 

[SteveM70]

What were alphabetically the first and last loco names used by the GWR?

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Aaron?