Transfer of LNER HST 125s to East Midlands Railway (EMR)

[Domh245]

Surely that’s simply moving cost from one place to another?

At least with the current situation the industry is well placed for the passenger resurgence which will happen (it’s a case of to what extent rather than whether it happens).

Either way it's the treasury paying and if they aren't doing anything useful, paying staff 80% of their wages (/£2500 a month/whatever the latest rates are) to do nothing is better than paying 100% wages to do nothing. So long as competencies don't lapse, there's no reason why it shouldn't be capable of rebounding quickly

 

[Bald Rick]

Surely that’s simply moving cost from one place to another?

At least with the current situation the industry is well placed for the passenger resurgence which will happen (it’s a case of to what extent rather than whether it happens).



This is what makes me think any ramp-down is being a little over played. There isn’t a massive cost saving in not running the trains. Staff availability is another matter of course, and that would certainly inform any cuts. I’m amazed the various operators are doing as well as they are in that regard to be honest.

AIUI, Only 3 TOCs are running much more than 90% of a normal service, one of which is MTR who have drivers coming out of their ears; very few TOCs have absence rates higher than 10%, and it’s January where annual leave is at a much much lower level than normal.

 

[WesternLancer]

And taxpayers would be better protected if some staff were furloughed.

No, not really - which is why across the whole public sector staff are not, as far as I know, furloughed - as since it is the govt paying (OK we still have the notional pretense that it is private companies, but they are the conduit and HM Treasury bean counters know who is really paying), the govt may as well pay them to do something than pay them to do nothing.

Part of the problem with Furlough was businesses who in the 1st lockdown at least could have chosen to operate to some extent, but decided it was easier to cease work and take the govt cash. I'm sure this wasn't widespread, but I certainly know some people who were furloughed, who felt they could have been working, and in one case it was a business where their income was largely guaranteed during the period concerned due to the nature of the work.

 

[spotify95]

I quite agree with you ref Std seat too.

And of course for many years MML/EMT weekend 1st upgrade stayed, IIRC, £6, so you could have splashed out on a special occasion! £12 now which is not bad and if you get the time right you could go all the way to / from Leeds for that....

I once saw on a weekday morning train (EMT) that someone needed to buy a ticket on board and was offered a 1st class upgrade for just £1 extra. Only once did this happen, and whilst the person in question went for a Standard Class ticket, I'd have paid the extra and gone 1st - especially when Wi-Fi was £4 per journey back then!

Never saw this happen again though and on a weekday (when I use the trains - or used to use them pre-COVID) for the journey I was making, 1st Class was over double the cost of Standard Class (about £32 va £15) and not worth doing.

Maybe 1st Class might make more sense when doing a long journey, but for the stoppers (Lon - Corby, and Lon - Nottingham via Luton/Bedford/Wellingborough/Kettering/Mkt Harborough/Leicester/Beeston) it just doesn't make sense with 1st class priced the way it is.

125 Group has already acquired three trailers from set NL01 for preservation, with a further three from NL03 to follow.

I’ve no idea if there’s a destruction order on the rest of them, but if they go to Newport for disposal it’s unlikely anything would be salvageable: Sims process them very quickly (within days). More chance if they go to Booths in Rotherham, where trailers have had components recovered (e.g. WSP equipment).

Good to hear that some are being preserved. I've already heard about the 125 group having some. Was wondering if any more were being preserved as well.

I know that one set recently went to EMR Kingsbury (was posted on here). I've seen some videos before on the machinery that SIMS have so it's just cheaper for them to feed the carriage straight through the machinery. Shame as I know a lot of MK3s have already been scrapped there.

And yes I have seen a few bits and bobs (originally from trains) that have appeared on eBay.

 

[DB]

When ... the 180s work better.

Could be a very long wait...

 

[DannyMich2018]

Could be a very long wait...

Yes possibly!

 

[ChrisC]

I wonder if the timetable cuts being reported on the BBC will result in service reductions on MML that will render the HSTs surplus very soon indeed?

If this current lock down goes to March as seems to be expected, and the trains were due out of service in May anyway, they presumably only need to adjust the timetable and then retain that until May planned timetable changes anyway (which I would think would be likely although post vaccination traffic levels - esp for leisure - would seem hard to predict right now)

I rather imagine many routes with 30 minutes or higher frequencies could manage with half of the services taken out - eg EMT Nottingham trains operate with only hourly stoppers using 222s only for example.

I wonder how much money has been spent during the past year tying to get these LNER sets in good enough condition to be in service with EMR. The transfer was supposed to happen about a year ago but didn’t because it was found that they were in such poor condition. What a waste if they have been working on them for all this time and now they will never be used.

 

[Bald Rick]

I wonder how much money has been spent during the past year tying to get these LNER sets in good enough condition to be in service with EMR. The transfer was supposed to happen about a year ago but didn’t because it was found that they were in such poor condition. What a waste if they have been working on them for all this time and now they will never be used.

There’s going to be more of this. But then contracts were let before the pesky virus got in the way.

 

[MissPWay]

If you want to get a pictorial record of HSTS in service on the southern end of the MML then you might want to get your cameras out before a week on Monday...

 

[Killingworth]

If you want to get a pictorial record of HSTS in service on the southern end of the MML then you might want to get your cameras out before a week on Monday...

Which is when nationwide reduced services may begin? They're coming very soon.

 

[WesternLancer]

If you want to get a pictorial record of HSTS in service on the southern end of the MML then you might want to get your cameras out before a week on Monday...

Is this suggesting no more MML HSTs after about 8 days time?

I wonder how much money has been spent during the past year tying to get these LNER sets in good enough condition to be in service with EMR. The transfer was supposed to happen about a year ago but didn’t because it was found that they were in such poor condition. What a waste if they have been working on them for all this time and now they will never be used.

Yes, would be an interesting question to see the cost outlayed on this, even if it was decided before covid made it much more difficult and of benefit to far fewer people - due to reduced travel levels.

 

[XCTurbostar]

If you want to get a pictorial record of HSTS in service on the southern end of the MML then you might want to get your cameras out before a week on Monday...

..and here was me thinking they'd at least last until May 2021.

Standard diagrams currently are:

5C13 04.30 XNL SHF
1C13 06.00 SHF STP
5C13 08.53 STP CWD
- Stabled at Cricklewood -
5M40 16.16 CWD STP
1M40 16.50 STP COR
1P41 18.37 COR STP
1F72 20.31 STP DBY
5F72 22.26 DBY XEP

5C15 04.57 XNL LDS
1C15 05.19 LDS STP
5C15 09.10 STP CWD
- Stabled at Cricklewood -
5D57 16.53 CWD STP
1D58 17.34 STP NOT
5D58 20.15 NOT XEP

5B16 06.03 XEP NOT
1B16 07.11 NOT STP
5B16 09.21 STP CWD
- Stabled at Cricklewood -
5D64 18.07 CWD STP
1D64 18.34 STP LDS (via Notts)
5D64 22.46 LDS XNL

5C98 06.57 XEP DBY
1C98 07.31 DBY STP
5C17 09.58 STP CWD
- Stabled at Cricklewood -
5D48 15.02 CWD STP
1D48 15.34 STP NOT
1B69 17.45 NOT STP
1F70 20.01 STP LDS
5F70 23.33 LDS XNL

5B23 06.11 XNL LDS
1B23 06.34 LDS STP (via Notts)
5M17 10.20 STP STP (via Leicester and Corby)
1D43 14.34 STP NOT
1B63 16.45 NOT STP
1D66 19.04 STP LDS (via Notts)
5D66 23.03 LDS XNL

 

[LowLevel]

Apparently 2 diagrams remain in the reduced timetable, 1 starting from Etches Park and 1 from Neville Hill.

 

[WesternLancer]

..and here was me thinking they'd at least last until May 2021.

Standard diagrams currently are:

5C13 04.30 XNL SHF
1C13 06.00 SHF STP
5C13 08.53 STP CWD
- Stabled at Cricklewood -
5M40 16.16 CWD STP
1M40 16.50 STP COR
1P41 18.37 COR STP
1F72 20.31 STP DBY
5F72 22.26 DBY XEP

5C15 04.57 XNL LDS
1C15 05.19 LDS STP
5C15 09.10 STP CWD
- Stabled at Cricklewood -
5D57 16.53 CWD STP
1D58 17.34 STP NOT
5D58 20.15 NOT XEP

5B16 06.03 XEP NOT
1B16 07.11 NOT STP
5B16 09.21 STP CWD
- Stabled at Cricklewood -
5D64 18.07 CWD STP
1D64 18.34 STP LDS (via Notts)
5D64 22.46 LDS XNL

5C98 06.57 XEP DBY
1C98 07.31 DBY STP
5C17 09.58 STP CWD
- Stabled at Cricklewood -
5D48 15.02 CWD STP
1D48 15.34 STP NOT
1B69 17.45 NOT STP
1F70 20.01 STP LDS
5F70 23.33 LDS XNL

5B23 06.11 XNL LDS
1B23 06.34 LDS STP (via Notts)
5M17 10.20 STP STP (via Leicester and Corby)
1D43 14.34 STP NOT
1B63 16.45 NOT STP
1D66 19.04 STP LDS (via Notts)
5D66 23.03 LDS XNL

Thanks for posting

Apparently 2 diagrams remain in the reduced timetable, 1 starting from Etches Park and 1 from Neville Hill.

So when would that start @LowLevel ? (and of course do you know which they would be - I assume not at this stage or you would have posted, but just asking in case....)

 

[LowLevel]

Thanks for posting


So when would that start @LowLevel ? (and of course do you know which they would be - I assume not at this stage or you would have posted, but just asking in case....)

Meant to be the 18th January and no, I don't have the details unfortunately.

 

[WesternLancer]

Meant to be the 18th January and no, I don't have the details unfortunately.

Thanks - wonder about weekends too - given that off peak has had more demand than peaks or so it has seemed since lock down 1 (I guess in this lockdown off peak travel is similarly reduced perhaps)

 

[Pippy1505]

2 diagrams from 16/01/20 Both start Neville Hill finish Neville Hill

 

[WesternLancer]

2 diagrams from 16/01/20 Both start Neville Hill finish Neville Hill

Thanks - so starting from this Saturday, not Monday 18th as prev suggested. Do you know what the diagrams are / times by any chance? Are they selected ones from post #942

 

[43055]

Thanks - so starting from this Saturday, not Monday 18th as prev suggested. Do you know what the diagrams are / times by any chance? Are they selected ones from post #942

Looks like 2 diagrams from Leeds on Saturday and 3 on Sunday on RTT.

Next Tuesday shows 5C15, 5B23 running out and 5D66, 5F70 running in with 5C13 and 5D64 cancelled in RTT at Leeds.

 

[Pippy1505]

sorry should be starting 18th january 4 diagrams saturday 16th 5 diagrams sunday 17th

 

[Pippy1505]

Thanks - so starting from this Saturday, not Monday 18th as prev suggested. Do you know what the diagrams are / times by any chance? Are they selected ones from post #942

5B23/1B23/5M17/1D43/1B63/1D66/5D66
5C15/1C15/5C15/5D48/1D48/1B69/1F70/5F70

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks for responses / info

 

[ClnRe]

5B23/1B23/5M17/1D43/1B63/1D66/5D66
5C15/1C15/5C15/5D48/1D48/1B69/1F70/5F70

Many thanks for this information.
I don't know which journeys these codes refer to through, so would you list the services included in these two workings please.

 

[Domh245]

Many thanks for this information.
I don't know which journeys these codes refer to through, so would you list the services included in these two workings please.

Codes refer to the same workings as in post 942. Relevant diagrams (although the second diagram changes after stabling in Cricklewood) are:

5B23 06.11 XNL LDS
1B23 06.34 LDS STP (via Notts)
5M17 10.20 STP STP (via Leicester and Corby)
1D43 14.34 STP NOT
1B63 16.45 NOT STP
1D66 19.04 STP LDS (via Notts)
5D66 23.03 LDS XNL

5C15 04.57 XNL LDS
1C15 05.19 LDS STP
5C15 09.10 STP CWD
- Stabled at Cricklewood -
5D48 15.02 CWD STP
1D48 15.34 STP NOT
1B69 17.45 NOT STP
1F70 20.01 STP LDS
5F70 23.33 LDS XNL

 

[HST43257]

sorry should be starting 18th january 4 diagrams saturday 16th 5 diagrams sunday 17th

4 diagrams for a Saturday and 5 for a Sunday? Which services will they be? AFAIK, there are 3 at the moment on a Saturday and 4 on a Sunday.

 

[43055]

4 diagrams for a Saturday and 5 for a Sunday? Which services will they be? AFAIK, there are 3 at the moment on a Saturday and 4 on a Sunday.

Last weekend it was 4 on Saturday and 5 on Sunday. I think it was because of the works over on the East Coast as LNER were only running once an hour. The Saturday diagrams was mostly xx34 from London and xx45 from Nottingham like before December but with 1 set less running.

 

[HST43257]

Last weekend it was 4 on Saturday and 5 on Sunday. I think it was because of the works over on the East Coast as LNER were only running once an hour. The Saturday diagrams was mostly xx34 from London and xx45 from Nottingham like before December but with 1 set less running.

so will this continue through for a few months or is it just for ECML works weeks?

 

[43 302]

so will this continue through for a few months or is it just for ECML works weeks?

They are only keeping three sets so that would be a little tricky!

 

[WesternLancer]

They are only keeping three sets so that would be a little tricky!

so of the 5 or 6 sets they now have are some going off lease then? Presume this means the reduced timetable and shorter trains is staying until May? - no optimism based on vaccine role outs....

 

[HST43257]

They are only keeping three sets so that would be a little tricky!

Yes good point, so are the headcodes below the weekday diagrams?

5B23/1B23/5M17/1D43/1B63/1D66/5D66
5C15/1C15/5C15/5D48/1D48/1B69/1F70/5F70