Anonymous10
Established Member
i hope one is painted in atw livery. it looked smart
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There used to be a standard gauge line to Llanberis, but the final (by then, summer only) passenger services were in the 1950s.Llanberis? That has two railways. There's a narrow-gauge steam railway but it doesn't really go anywhere useful from a tourist's perspective; it's more there for the scenery.
Then there's the mountain railway which actually goes to the summit of Snowdon.
"Proper" public transport is provided by the Snowdon Sherpa buses.
A very few enthusiasts may go out of their way to ride on Pacers, but I think the majority response by visitors finding Pacers on heritage railways would be to delete that railway from their list of places worth revisiting.Having travelled on many GWR 143, 150 , 153 and 158s, if I was on a scenic line, it would be a 143 anytime. AND you can open the windows ; clickety clack...... .
the mountain railway in north wales is semi commuter which runs up to the base of snowdon i remember friends and their families using that as transport to porthmadog
That makes sense - travelling from Porthmadog to Rhyd Ddu or Snowdon Ranger stations (or even to Beddgelert) would be sensible, though I still think it's a stretch to call ot semi commuter - it's more like the Worth Valley (and no doubt other lines) where people use it for linear walks...honestly i know the people i went to America used whatever train it was to get up to the village at base of snowdon
That makes sense - travelling from Porthmadog to Rhyd Ddu or Snowdon Ranger stations (or even to Beddgelert) would be sensible, though I still think it's a stretch to call ot semi commuter - it's more like the Worth Valley (and no doubt other lines) where people use it for linear walks...
Pacers were great between Barnsley and Meadowhall when it had jointed track, they bounced around all over the place at line speed. It's just not the same anymore!A run from York to Horsforth via Harrogate was very interesting. Lots of bouncy and squealy bits. Once had one from Lancaster to Shipley which was another real squeal job around Carnforth.
I second that. Going through the tunnel at Chapeltown produced some incredible noises!Pacers were great between Barnsley and Meadowhall when it had jointed track, they bounced around all over the place at line speed. It's just not the same anymore!
It could be argued that the Mountain railway is both commuter and freight, how else would the staff and goods get to the top.Llanberis? That has two railways. There's a narrow-gauge steam railway but it doesn't really go anywhere useful from a tourist's perspective; it's more there for the scenery.
Then there's the mountain railway which actually goes to the summit of Snowdon.
"Proper" public transport is provided by the Snowdon Sherpa buses.
now i like your thinking first train the day is a staff and goods affairIt could be argued that the Mountain railway is both commuter and freight, how else would the staff and goods get to the top.
My thoughts entirely. Pacers are without doubt the 'Marmite' of the railway world.A very few enthusiasts may go out of their way to ride on Pacers, but I think the majority response by visitors finding Pacers on heritage railways would be to delete that railway from their list of places worth revisiting.
They are, though I'd suggest there's rather fewer of those who like Pacers than like Marmite! Further, I'd say the vast majority partaking of the Pacer love-in are the usual end of life "doom bashers" who will chase anything that's going. They'll move on to the next thing soon enough. That there's no long-term Pacer society says plenty; the majority of enthusiasts have a preference for locomotives.My thoughts entirely. Pacers are without doubt the 'Marmite' of the railway world.
A run from York to Horsforth via Harrogate was very interesting. Lots of bouncy and squealy bits. Once had one from Lancaster to Shipley which was another real squeal job around Carnforth.
I’m genuinely surprised that a number of folk think pacers are a good idea on a heritage line. While I can understand a couple being preserved, I just don’t think the general public would be very receptive to one if they rolled up to a railway. Back in my bashing days I didn’t mind taking in the odd diesel gala, but even back then you could see the amount of diesels being preserved was getting out of hand.
Fares on heritage lines aren’t cheap - I don’t think a family rolling up then paying good money for a trip would be too amused by a 142 rolling into the platform!
And a message for the railways that have taken leave of their senses and acquired one: if you really have a genuine need for a 2nd generation DMU, you'd be far better off waiting until 156s become available.
There is. 142055 belongs to the Pacer Rail Group.That there's no long-term Pacer society says plenty; the majority of enthusiasts have a preference for locomotives.
It is likely to be at least a 10 year wait for a 156. Logically, the Pacers will help many of the lower league Pres railways move forward with a cheap, reliable machine and then yes, maybe they will be binned when the 156’s et al become available.They are, though I'd suggest there's rather fewer of those who like Pacers than like Marmite! Further, I'd say the vast majority partaking of the Pacer love-in are the usual end of life "doom bashers" who will chase anything that's going. They'll move on to the next thing soon enough. That there's no long-term Pacer society says plenty; the majority of enthusiasts have a preference for locomotives.
The current position is totally unsustainable with such huge numbers "saved" (or, at least, scrapping deferred) - a lack of support (those "doom bashers" won't be around long term) and lack of funds will see most parked up. Added to that, at some point the railways they are at will at some point work out just how bad they are:
- appalling ride quality, especially on jointed track.
- an interior not really fit for the days out market with (on most of the 142s) bus seating and few bays of 4.
- those "panoramic" windows that are spoken about, that rapidly become misted and damp and can't be seen out of.
- the toxic "Pacer" brand. They were widely - and rightly - derided before withdrawal, and that message isn't going to help when a preserved line tries to sell trips on them to Joe Public. They simply aren't a great "day out" proposition when railways are charging fares for them, even off-season.
My prediction is that most will be laid up within a short timeframe, littering the usual preserved line junkyards. And a message for the railways that have taken leave of their senses and acquired one: if you really have a genuine need for a 2nd generation DMU, you'd be far better off waiting until 156s become available.
I wouldn't claim a group started in 2019 is "long term"; at least not yet. How many members have they got - as in signed-up, subscribing members (not Faceache/Tw@tter follows/likes/whatever)?There is. 142055 belongs to the Pacer Rail Group.
i would say they would get 150s earlier if anything but honestly my love for the pacer comes from memories of journeys that i loved not the noo save them all rubbish i just hope one or two from each operator and class is keptThey are, though I'd suggest there's rather fewer of those who like Pacers than like Marmite! Further, I'd say the vast majority partaking of the Pacer love-in are the usual end of life "doom bashers" who will chase anything that's going. They'll move on to the next thing soon enough. That there's no long-term Pacer society says plenty; the majority of enthusiasts have a preference for locomotives.
The current position is totally unsustainable with such huge numbers "saved" (or, at least, scrapping deferred) - a lack of support (those "doom bashers" won't be around long term) and lack of funds will see most parked up. Added to that, at some point the railways they are at will at some point work out just how bad they are:
- appalling ride quality, especially on jointed track.
- an interior not really fit for the days out market with (on most of the 142s) bus seating and few bays of 4.
- those "panoramic" windows that are spoken about, that rapidly become misted and damp and can't be seen out of.
- the toxic "Pacer" brand. They were widely - and rightly - derided before withdrawal, and that message isn't going to help when a preserved line tries to sell trips on them to Joe Public. They simply aren't a great "day out" proposition when railways are charging fares for them, even off-season.
My prediction is that most will be laid up within a short timeframe, littering the usual preserved line junkyards. And a message for the railways that have taken leave of their senses and acquired one: if you really have a genuine need for a 2nd generation DMU, you'd be far better off waiting until 156s become available.
i would say they would get 150s earlier if anything but honestly my love for the pacer comes from memories of journeys that i loved not the noo save them all rubbish i just hope one or two from each operator and class is kept
i have no problems with 150s but then again i havent exactly used anything else that said the atw / tfw units arent badQuite possibly, but 150s are fairly horrible trains - not much better than a Pacer.
153s might be an option too.
For myself, I couldn't disagree more with regards to the first point you made.Further, I'd say the vast majority partaking of the Pacer love-in are the usual end of life "doom bashers" who will chase anything that's going. They'll move on to the next thing soon enough. That there's no long-term Pacer society says plenty; the majority of enthusiasts have a preference for locomotives.
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My prediction is that most will be laid up within a short timeframe, littering the usual preserved line junkyards. And a message for the railways that have taken leave of their senses and acquired one: if you really have a genuine need for a 2nd generation DMU, you'd be far better off waiting until 156s become available.
I think that highlights the fine balance to be had on heritage railways, catering for everyone. By your own admission, you like travelling on other DMU types; there will be those who would be a bit miffed if one of them turned up; there will be those for whom only a 'proper' steam engine will do (let's not debate what proper means to different people). I am sure in years to come there will be sprinters on heritage lines. All do their bit for history. All are great/rubbish to different people. What should the heritage sector do? The same debate will be going on in a generation's time as the next load of old trains becomes available.I dread the day 156s end up on heritage lines, I have absolutely no interest in riding on a sprinter in preservation, I'm afraid I'd want my money back.
There were still summer trains to Llanberis in the early 60'sThere used to be a standard gauge line to Llanberis, but the final (by then, summer only) passenger services were in the 1950s.
A very few enthusiasts may go out of their way to ride on Pacers, but I think the majority response by visitors finding Pacers on heritage railways would be to delete that railway from their list of places worth revisiting.
Yes, I've seen that and it looks excellent.Quite a nice surprise, and making a change to the usual endless BR based liveries, 142030 at the Chasewater Railway is currently undergoing a repaint into North Western / First North Western Gold Star livery.