Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

[Mikey C]

That's good news, as ADL were in danger of just ending up a bodybuilder

 

[cnjb8]

That's good news, as ADL were in danger of just ending up a bodybuilder

Which is working quite well according to their market dominance.

 

[GusB]

Short-wheelbase option launched for BYD ADL Enviro400EV

Alexander Dennis Limited (ADL) and BYD UK’s electric vehicle partnership is introducing a shorter version of its BYD ADL Enviro400EV double decker.

www.transportengineer.org.uk

Short-wheelbase option launched for BYD ADL Enviro400EV24 February 2021​

Alexander Dennis Limited (ADL) and BYD UK’s electric vehicle partnership is introducing a shorter version of its BYD ADL Enviro400EV double decker.



With its more compact wheelbase, the 10.3m long model will increase manoeuvrability when navigating congested roads and tight corners.



The partnership launched the double deck BYD ADL Enviro400EV in 2019, enabling the electrification of busy bus services. Over 450 of the standard 10.8m version have since been sold to operators in London and other UK cities.

I found myself smiling about 10.3m double-deckers being considered as "short-wheelbase", when this length was previously considered to be "long-wheelbase" in previous generations of double deckers. Different times!

 

[aswilliamsuk]

That's an interesting response to what have clearly been challenges with the longer BYD wheelbase (that short rear overhang is the giveaway).

Optare won their MetroDecker order from London General because the BYD/ADL 10.8m version failed a route test on the 200, as I understand it (which the MetroDecker passed, as it has a shorter wheelbase).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Short-wheelbase option launched for BYD ADL Enviro400EV

Alexander Dennis Limited (ADL) and BYD UK’s electric vehicle partnership is introducing a shorter version of its BYD ADL Enviro400EV double decker.

www.transportengineer.org.uk

I found myself smiling about 10.3m double-deckers being considered as "short-wheelbase", when this length was previously considered to be "long-wheelbase" in previous generations of double deckers. Different times!

Indeed it is - trying to think if stuff like VRs and Olympians were 9.5m?

 

[Goldfish62]

Indeed it is - trying to think if stuff like VRs and Olympians were 9.5m?

Not only length. The extra 5cm width of modern double decks is also quite noticeable.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Short-wheelbase option launched for BYD ADL Enviro400EV

Alexander Dennis Limited (ADL) and BYD UK’s electric vehicle partnership is introducing a shorter version of its BYD ADL Enviro400EV double decker.

www.transportengineer.org.uk

I found myself smiling about 10.3m double-deckers being considered as "short-wheelbase", when this length was previously considered to be "long-wheelbase" in previous generations of double deckers. Different times!

Quite a good point.

Even if you look at the early Tridents 9.9M was short-wheelbase with 10.4M being standard. Whereas now 10.3M is short while 10.9M is standard and 11.5M is long-wheelbase. It's the same with other chassis types such as the B7TL where 10.3M-10.5M was the norm in the early 00s.

 

[Volvodart]

Wrightbus to use Voith Electrical Drive System in ZE buses

https://www.route-one.net/vehicles/...ail&utm_term=0_584b65a2d5-eaf5a801ab-99099849

Wrightbus to use Voith Electrical Drive System in ZE buses​

By​

routeone Team
-
February 23, 2021
https://www.facebook.com/sharer.php...se-voith-electrical-drive-system-in-ze-buses/
https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?te...l-drive-system-in-ze-buses/&via=@routeoneteam

https://www.linkedin.com/shareArtic...use+Voith+Electrical+Drive+System+in+ZE+buses

Wrightbus will exclusively utilise the Voith Electrical Drive System (VEDS) in the second-generation of its battery-electric and hydrogen fuel cell-electric buses, the two parties have announced.
The first major Wrightbus order to be fitted with VEDS will be 80 battery-electric StreetDeck double-deckers for Northern Irish operator Translink. They are to commence delivery from August. Those vehicles form part of a wider £66m contract with Wrightbus that will see 100 zero-emission buses delivered to the state-owned undertaking.
The Voith product is based on a powerful water-cooled permanent magnet motor with a high-efficiency inverter. That positively impacts energy consumption while permitting a compact design. VEDS is a modular system that can deliver a maximum power of 340kW, making it what Voith claims is one of the most powerful traction systems on the market for buses.
Wrightbus says it analysed all electrical drive systems available in Europe before concluding that VEDS delivers the best operating efficiency. That is a key consideration, particularly for double-deckers, adds Wrightbus Head of Advanced Technology Brian Maybin. He notes that the envelope and restricted weight capacity of a double-decker constrains the manufacturer’s ability to add more batteries to increase its range.
VEDS supports battery systems from a range of manufacturers. The collaboration between Wrightbus and Voith represents a further step in a well-established relationship that previously has been built around the use of Voith’s DIWA transmissions in Wrightbus’s diesel range.

 

[Swanny200]

I know that it might be a niche company just now, but might we have to add Arrival to the UK based manufacturers, they are supplying a vehicle to First this year for trials, anyone know much about this new builder apart from the fact that they are making vans for Royal Mail and Amazon for delivery this year too. 36 seater bus which is fully low floor, might not make a dent on the big guns this year or maybe next, but might become a player after that.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I know that it might be a niche company just now, but might we have to add Arrival to the UK based manufacturers, they are supplying a vehicle to First this year for trials, anyone know much about this new builder apart from the fact that they are making vans for Royal Mail and Amazon for delivery this year too. 36 seater bus which is fully low floor, might not make a dent on the big guns this year or maybe next, but might become a player after that.

That's a fair point however the "etc" in the title accounts for the smaller names, i only put "ADL, Optare & Wright" as examples and because they're the three largest. I don't see the need and there wouldn't be the space to list every UK based bus manufacture in the title.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Arrival and First Bus confirm the start of zero-emission bus trials

Arrival, the company creating electric vehicles using its radical new technologies, today announced that it will begin trials of its zero-emission Bus with First Bus, one of the UK’s largest transport operators.

arrival.com

Arrival also have an order for 10,000 electric vans from UPS.

Arrival | Integrated Transport Ecosystem | Discover Bus and Van

Zero-emission solutions for cities. Human-centred, intelligent design - to revitalise public transportation.

arrival.com

 

[py_megapixel]

I keep misreading "Arrival" as Arriva

 

[GusB]

See also

"Arrival" new UK based bus manufacturer

anyone taking this seriously? Has shades of Delorean to my eye news report https://cbwmagazine.com/arrival-enter-the-uk-bus-market-with-an-all-new-zero-emission-bus/ corporate website https://arrival.com/

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Swanny200]

That's a fair point however the "etc" in the title accounts for the smaller names, i only put "ADL, Optare & Wright" as examples and because they're the three largest. I don't see the need and there wouldn't be the space to list every UK based bus manufacture in the title.

It was more metaphorical than adding it to the title, it was meant more that with First making a bold step to no longer buy diesel from the end of next year and putting some faith in hydrogen with the Aberdeen Wrightbus trials, Arrival is the first purely electric bus, built from the ground up in this country, if it is successful and to be honest if it is anything like their mock ups and their vans which are not bad looking aestetically wise, they may end up being a major player and also causing the "big three" some big competition.

 

[Snow1964]

That's an interesting response to what have clearly been challenges with the longer BYD wheelbase (that short rear overhang is the giveaway).

Optare won their MetroDecker order from London General because the BYD/ADL 10.8m version failed a route test on the 200, as I understand it (which the MetroDecker passed, as it has a shorter wheelbase).

It’s interesting that ADL previously said wouldn’t be a shorter version because of the need to spread the batteries around to meet the max axle loadings (can’t just put majority of weight on back axle). Not clear if they have removed batteries (giving lower range) or found lighter batteries

The latest TfL bus spec requires a larger wheelchair / buggy space and has cameras instead of wing mirrors. I do wonder how they will meet the new space and capacity requirements at only 10.3m. Oddly the photo used for the ADL is not to TfL spec as has wing mirrors (but they have painted it red), presumably it’s just an old E400MMCs City photo with bit of tweaking.

 

[MotCO]

I do wonder how they will meet the new space and capacity requirements at only 10.3m.

That's an interesting response to what have clearly been challenges with the longer BYD wheelbase (that short rear overhang is the giveaway).

Optare won their MetroDecker order from London General because the BYD/ADL 10.8m version failed a route test on the 200, as I understand it (which the MetroDecker passed, as it has a shorter wheelbase).

How does the Metrodecker meet the capacity requirements with a shorter wheelbase? Does it have a longer rear overhang, or does it somehow have better space utilisation inside?

 

[Mikey C]

Most (All?) diesel E400s in London are of the shorter 10.3m ish length, that seems to be a popular length in London, able to "go anywhere"

 

[Jordan Adam]

Most (All?) diesel E400s in London are of the shorter 10.3m ish length, that seems to be a popular length in London, able to "go anywhere"

I've always found London's obsession with buying the shortest yet tallest buses possible strange.

Some of the Ex-London Presidents were bordering on being taller than they were in length .

ADL Trident Plaxton President - First Aberdeen

32975 X975 HLT......Market Street,Aberdeen.

www.flickr.com

 

[Mikey C]

I've always found London's obsession with buying the shortest yet tallest buses possible strange.

Some of the Ex-London Presidents were bordering on being taller than they were in length .

ADL Trident Plaxton President - First Aberdeen

32975 X975 HLT......Market Street,Aberdeen.

www.flickr.com

Nah, it's the rest of the country which has it wrong!

Indeed when I venture out of London, it's surprising how different the double deckers are. For example a Stagecoach E400 outside London is longer, lower, single doored, has LED destination blinds and has a more compact staircase

 

[fgwrich]

I see that Ensign has taken delivery of a number of StreetDecks from Wrightbus - is this a new order to Wright's or are Ensign picking up vehicles from a cancelled order?

 

[awsnews]

I see that Ensign has taken delivery of a number of StreetDecks from Wrightbus - is this a new order to Wright's or are Ensign picking up vehicles from a cancelled order?

Would appear to be those recently advertised by Chartwell Bus Sales which were a cancelled Arriva order

 

[Bwsbro]

I see that Ensign has taken delivery of a number of StreetDecks from Wrightbus - is this a new order to Wright's or are Ensign picking up vehicles from a cancelled order?

Would appear to be those recently advertised by Chartwell Bus Sales which were a cancelled Arriva order

These are a group of seven vehicles refused by Arriva for the 110 Wakefield to Leeds service, due to their poor built quality.

These will enter service in early March and will replace older vehicles on routes that enter the newly expanded London ULEZ zone

 

[Volvodart]

Unsure if it was true, but someone suggested the problem was that Bamford would only offer 2 years warranty. I thought they were finished under Bamford ownership.

 

[Robertj21a]

Interesting to note just how poor the quality became under Wrights in their later days. Seems odd that they should have allowed it to happen - simply poor management, poor quality control, cutting corners, cutting staff ???

 

[Jordan Adam]

Interesting to note just how poor the quality became under Wrights in their later days. Seems odd that they should have allowed it to happen - simply poor management, poor quality control, cutting corners, cutting staff ???

I think it was likely a mix of the problems you mention rather than anything particularly specific.

I can see why Bamford would be reluctant to include a long warranty on something built under the previous regime...

 

[MotCO]

These are a group of seven vehicles refused by Arriva for the 110 Wakefield to Leeds service, due to their poor built quality.

These will enter service in early March and will replace older vehicles on routes that enter the newly expanded London ULEZ zone

I feel sorry for the prospective passengers!

Interesting to note just how poor the quality became under Wrights in their later days. Seems odd that they should have allowed it to happen - simply poor management, poor quality control, cutting corners, cutting staff ???

And yet they still managed to sell more buses than Optare. Bizarre!

 

[Goldfish62]

I've always found London's obsession with buying the shortest yet tallest buses possible strange.

Some of the Ex-London Presidents were bordering on being taller than they were in length .

ADL Trident Plaxton President - First Aberdeen

32975 X975 HLT......Market Street,Aberdeen.

www.flickr.com

TfL specifies that double decks must be full height, ie 14' 6" to maximise passenger headroom. That other operators don't consider this to be an issue is their choice.

TfL's network planning is based on authorised bus capacity rather than actual size. In respect of length in the days of Tridents and B7s 90-capacity buses (long wheelbase) were specified for routes with no physical issues, while 85-capacity buses (short wheelbase) were specified for routes with identified issues.

With the arrival of Euro IV and above weight became an issue and it was found that the additional weight of a long wheelbase double deck actually required a lower overall maximum passenger capacity. Therefore short wheelbase for double decks was settled upon (the Borismaster, which no one other than the mayor wanted is quite another story).

The E400EV has been giving some significant issues due to its long wheelbase. This is particularly acute because the rear axle is set further back than usual to support the weight of the batteries.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Interesting to note just how poor the quality became under Wrights in their later days. Seems odd that they should have allowed it to happen - simply poor management, poor quality control, cutting corners, cutting staff ???

Possibly the result of management time and money being diverted into other non-transport related projects?

 

[py_megapixel]

Are wright even building anything at the moment?
Their website is a single page full of marketing spiel about how amazing hydrogen fuel cells are; they seem to be ashamed of the fact that they've ever built diesel vehicles!

 

[carlberry]

These are a group of seven vehicles refused by Arriva for the 110 Wakefield to Leeds service, due to their poor built quality.

These will enter service in early March and will replace older vehicles on routes that enter the newly expanded London ULEZ zone

Usually everybody else has to put up with some tat after London have finished with it, it's unusual for London to have to put up with something that somebody else got rid of!