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Steam or Diesel Train Tour?

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43096

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I would definitely recommend a trip on the Hastings unit - you can even book on the BIG buffet car if you wish !
Motor cars are probably more fun!

To digress, I have a huge amount of respect for what Hastings Diesels have achieved. Having a fully mainline registered train (not just a loco) that they’ve kept updated by fitting TPWS, OTMR, GSM-R and CDL is not to be underestimated. They deserve far more recognition than what they have received.
 
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DarloRich

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What question are you asking:

What train does a set of enthusiasts want or what train do real people looking for a nice day out want?

The answers would be very different. The interesting aspect will be the Blue Pullman. That could cut through.
 

VEP3417

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at one point most railtours, from around the london area anyway where all 66s/67s there diddnt seem to be much choice, even today its a bit like that down south, up north seems to get all the interesting stuff, like 45's/55s ect and older unusual stuff like that

down south its the occasional 73/33 or visiting 47 but as said very occasionally

id like to see more diversity with older/different stuff down south

and yes, ive been on the thumper emu railtour, that was brilliant, needs to be more emu tours! get that old vep 3147 out and about :lol:

i think the highlight of any tours i went on was the sussex slammer, to mark the end of slam door trains, think about 2005, now that was excellent

i like both diesel and steam so both is fine by me, but as said there needs to be more diversity diesel wise :lol: unless theres a reason down south only gets trains that used to run down south, and up north gets trains that only used to run up north :lol:
 

yorksrob

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i think the highlight of any tours i went on was the sussex slammer, to mark the end of slam door trains, think about 2005, now that was excellent

Oh yes, I went on that - it was a cracking day out. Unfortunately my train in was late, so I missed the first leg to East Grinstead.
 

UP13

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Personally prefer steam but being honest when you're on board it doesn't matter if it's the Flying Scotsman or a Black Five at the front. Locomotive is a bigger deal for the lineside photographers.

I think steam is best when shorter distances as there is something depressing about constantly been put in passing loops for 30 odd mins at a time.

The Steam Dreams Windsor and Surrey Hills trips are ideal for normals and young families as it is proper mainline steam, doesn't break the bank and doesn't have stupidly early start and late end times.

I found that the Dorset Coast Express from Waterloo to Weymouth is a decent length steam trip with reasonable hours.

Personally I think steam should probably be confined to scenic areas such as Settle to Carlisle and the Dawlish Sea Wall and have high speed modern traction take the train there from London along the congested mainlines. I'd happily have a Class 68, Class 67 or Class 90 etc if it meant I could get home at a more reasonable hour.
 

Shimbleshanks

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Steam for the novelty but one plus side of diesel/electric is that it has a better chance of keeping up with the regular services than steam, so less time spent hanging around in loops waiting for other traffic to pass.
 

UP13

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Electric heating is a big plus. I did a tour in 2014. 60009 'Union or South Africa's steam heating was negligible and when the Class 86 took over at York the difference between steam heating and electrical heating was very notable.

However 75mph behind steam is much more comfortable than shaking like a jelly at 100mph behind a Class 86. That's Mk1s for you...
 

Master Cutler

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If that's the diesel option I'll take the kettle!
I'm also a big kettle fan, but The Blue Pullman HST with three world records under its belt takes some beating if only for the speed.

Quoting from the Paxman history pages;
The IC125, powered by Paxman Valentas, has three world records to its name. The first was broken just a year after it was built, on 12th June 1973, when the prototype HST established a world speed record for diesel traction at 143.2 mph (230.4 kph) between Northallerton and Thirsk on the East Coast main line.

Another world record was broken on 27th September 1985 when the IC125 Tyne-Tees Pullman ran from Newcastle to London King's Cross, a distance of 268 miles, in under 2 hours 20 minutes at an average speed of 115.4 mph. The 17.9 miles between Corby Glen and Werrington (near Peterborough) were run in 7 minutes 40 seconds, an average speed of 140.1 mph.

On 1st November 1987 the IC125 again broke the world speed record for diesel traction at a speed of 148 mph (238.2 kph) with peak speeds of just under 150 mph. This was achieved using power cars 43102 "City of Wakefield" and 43104 and three carriages over a measured mile between York and Northallerton.
 

Iskra

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Personally prefer steam but being honest when you're on board it doesn't matter if it's the Flying Scotsman or a Black Five at the front. Locomotive is a bigger deal for the lineside photographers.

I think steam is best when shorter distances as there is something depressing about constantly been put in passing loops for 30 odd mins at a time.

The Steam Dreams Windsor and Surrey Hills trips are ideal for normals and young families as it is proper mainline steam, doesn't break the bank and doesn't have stupidly early start and late end times.

I found that the Dorset Coast Express from Waterloo to Weymouth is a decent length steam trip with reasonable hours.

Personally I think steam should probably be confined to scenic areas such as Settle to Carlisle and the Dawlish Sea Wall and have high speed modern traction take the train there from London along the congested mainlines. I'd happily have a Class 68, Class 67 or Class 90 etc if it meant I could get home at a more reasonable hour.

I wouldn't recommend Steam Dreams at all, their Premier Dining was awful when I did it compared to the other operators. And there was no steam, pair of 47's instead... Complete Cowboys.

Electric heating is a big plus. I did a tour in 2014. 60009 'Union or South Africa's steam heating was negligible and when the Class 86 took over at York the difference between steam heating and electrical heating was very notable.

However 75mph behind steam is much more comfortable than shaking like a jelly at 100mph behind a Class 86. That's Mk1s for you...

That's true, the heating is better closer to the engine I believe. Temperatures can massively vary on all railtours however, so it is always best to be prepared for all temperatures.

I like Mk1's at 100mph, it's a very exhilarating ride :)
 

UP13

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My only experience of Steam Dreams is standard class on the Waterloo Sunset circular in 2019. Mayflower on the front and a class 33 on the back. Very enjoyable.

All my other mainline experiences have been with the Railway Touring Company.
 

timj

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Diesel for me but could put up with a kettle if there was an interesting route and destination
 

peteb

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My only experience of Steam Dreams is standard class on the Waterloo Sunset circular in 2019. Mayflower on the front and a class 33 on the back. Very enjoyable.

All my other mainline experiences have been with the Railway Touring Company
I like mk1s at 100mph too. It would be good to have some more shortish but fast trips diesel or electric hauled, eg Birmingham to London, London to Lincoln etc.
 

33056

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Right now I'd be happy to be able to go on any railtour!!!!

Back to the question, I don't mind either but am very picky regarding traction of both types (and electric) and avoid some things like the plague. Route and destination also come into consideration, I usually look at the whole thing when deciding which ones to do.
EDIT: the type of stock being used also plays an important role for me as well.
 

UP13

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Controversial opinion:

The route is a bigger deal than the traction. Unless you are sat near the locomotive then it makes little difference what is pulling you (i.e if in the middle or back can you really tell the difference between a B1 and Black Five or a Class 47 and a Class 33?)...

Takes cover...
 

Ashley Hill

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Controversial opinion:

The route is a bigger deal than the traction. Unless you are sat near the locomotive then it makes little difference what is pulling you (i.e if in the middle or back can you really tell the difference between a B1 and Black Five or a Class 47 and a Class 33?)...

Takes cover...
You make a good point about route. Rare track and freight only lines can be as much as a draw as haulage. Decent haulage over such lines tops it off though.
As for sitting in the front coach,with the increasing use of Mk2Ds and 3s and the door /window wardens you won't hear much up front anyway!
 

xotGD

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You make a good point about route. Rare track and freight only lines can be as much as a draw as haulage. Decent haulage over such lines tops it off though.
As for sitting in the front coach,with the increasing use of Mk2Ds and 3s and the door /window wardens you won't hear much up front anyway!
Oh, no! One of those trips where you shuffle in and out of sidings all day with a 66 on each end would just be a day of tedium.

Fudging the track, when it has been 'fixed'.

Of course, we all have our own motivations.
 

Master Cutler

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I recall one of the DPS tours I took many years ago during the winter.
Having booked First Class for my father in law and myself I took sufficient refreshments, but was relying on the ample supply of DPS coffee which was included with the ticket price.
Alighting the train at Chesterfield we were told that there was a problem with the heating in the first class coaches, so the journey would be cold to say the least.
The trip turned out quite well and not that cold, but as compensation the DPS lads kept us topped up with hot coffee for the whole journey.
I can confirm that it is possible to overdose on coffee.
 

peteb

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I do think that steam tours should have non air con mk1 stock or at a push mk2 stock. With opening vents its quite easy to hear the engine even 8 carriages back and, in these covid times, get a really good change of air in each carriage. The use of aircon stock on steam tours is bizarre, but ok for diesel and electric of course.
 

Cowley

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I do think that steam tours should have non air con mk1 stock or at a push mk2 stock. With opening vents its quite easy to hear the engine even 8 carriages back and, in these covid times, get a really good change of air in each carriage. The use of aircon stock on steam tours is bizarre, but ok for diesel and electric of course.

For me I’d find it important to hear the locos on a heritage diesel tour too. I wouldn’t want to be cocooned in an aircon coach if there were a pair of 20s/33s or D1015 up front. I don’t need to stick my head out of the window but I’d still like to be able to hear the locos working if they were tackling a bank for example (you’d be able to hear any of them at least half way down the train with a rake of mk1s).
Lack of that would definitely put myself off booking personally.
 

xotGD

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For me I’d find it important to hear the locos on a heritage diesel tour too. I wouldn’t want to be cocooned in an aircon coach if there were a pair of 20s/33s or D1015 up front. I don’t need to stick my head out of the window but I’d still like to be able to hear the locos working if they were tackling a bank for example (you’d be able to hear any of them at least half way down the train with a rake of mk1s).
Lack of that would definitely put myself off booking personally.
Very true. If you can't tell what is on the front it might as well just be a Duff!
 

peteb

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For me I’d find it important to hear the locos on a heritage diesel tour too. I wouldn’t want to be cocooned in an aircon coach if there were a pair of 20s/33s or D1015 up front. I don’t need to stick my head out of the window but I’d still like to be able to hear the locos working if they were tackling a bank for example (you’d be able to hear any of them at least half way down the train with a rake of mk1s).
Lack of that would definitely put myself off booking personally.
Sorry, I am with you on this, I just meant aircon carriages are the correct era for (most) diesel and electric. Yes good to hear thrash from the comfort of a Mk1 or 2A!
 

STEVIEBOY1

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Yes, I like to do these on MK1 or MK2 with opening windows so that you can hear and smell the locos, steam or diesel.
 

ABB125

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Rite now I'll happily be on a pacer
I'd happily be on a pacer anytime! Unfortunately my pacer-bashing plans were somewhat inconvenienced by a certain virus, and as a result my 2020 pacer mileage is a big fat 0. :(

On a more positive note, I have just booked my first railtour since 2016 (it was the Fifty-Niner it you're interested), and only my second ever: the Mazey Day Cornishman, all the way from the start at Birmingham.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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I'd happily be on a pacer anytime! Unfortunately my pacer-bashing plans were somewhat inconvenienced by a certain virus, and as a result my 2020 pacer mileage is a big fat 0. :(

On a more positive note, I have just booked my first railtour since 2016 (it was the Fifty-Niner it you're interested), and only my second ever: the Mazey Day Cornishman, all the way from the start at Birmingham.
I hope you enjoy your forthcoming railtour. I am investigating some at the moment. :D
 

43 302

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On 1st November 1987 the IC125 again broke the world speed record for diesel traction at a speed of 148 mph (238.2 kph) with peak speeds of just under 150 mph. This was achieved using power cars 43102 "City of Wakefield" and 43104 and three carriages over a measured mile between York and Northallerton.
43102 & 43159. 43104 was used after the speed record. And to stay on topic, it would be diesel for me, with electric traction not far behind.
 
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