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London Northwestern Class 730s

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100andthirty

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To be fair people joked about this with regard to mobile phone chargers, but then we did manage to get standardisation on USB - even my iPad uses USB C now, as does my laptop!
Hmmmm....Good analogy, but extend it a little and some phones have an audio jack others don't, and some have slot for a micro SD card others don't, then Apple is largely incompatible with everything else. All this is in the name of continuous development.
 
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Bletchleyite

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Hmmmm....Good analogy, but extend it a little and some phones have an audio jack others don't, and some have slit for a micro SD card others don't, then Apple is largely incompatible with everything else. All this is in the name of continuous development.

Apple are in the process of switching to USB C, finally!
 

supervc-10

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USB-C is its own is a minefield- USB-C is just the connector. There's USB 3.0, 3.1, Thunderbolt 3, Thunderbolt 4, etc etc

But this is somewhat off topic!
 

DavidGrain

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Just being silly here. Liveries have to have the doors a distinctive colour. On the photo above the driver's door is the same colour as the passenger doors. Does that mean that a passenger can get on through the driver's door? As I said I was just being silly.
 

221101 Voyager

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I saw 730002 going on the Abbey Branch today, does anyone know why it was testing on there?

It seems odd when the line is due to receive 350s.

Unless it was a proving run to see if a 3 car 730 could work on there better than a 350?

However, LNWRs 5-car 730s cannot fit on any of the Abbey platforms. So, unless if LNWR have a plan to order 2x or 3x 3-car units for this route, then why else would they have a test run on there? Hmm...
 

Chiltern006

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I guess its a good place to test them, as there is no other service on there at the moment.
 

Wyrleybart

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Speaking to a colleague yesterday about 730s, there is a belief that the Cross city line in Birmingham will not return to the 10 minute service frequency pre pandemic, either for a long time, or ever. Therefore WMR do not need all the 36 x 730/0s, and some might need to be redeployed. Merely joining up some dots in thought.
 

OTRail

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Speaking to a colleague yesterday about 730s, there is a belief that the Cross city line in Birmingham will not return to the 10 minute service frequency pre pandemic, either for a long time, or ever. Therefore WMR do not need all the 36 x 730/0s, and some might need to be redeployed. Merely joining up some dots in thought.
They’ll probably stick a few on Wolverhampton - Walsall stoppers and the Chase Line. There are also other areas they could be used (i.e. Birmingham to Coventry).

I’m pretty sure the 10 minute frequency will be re-introduced in time, although like you’ve said it will take a long time for that to happen most likely.
 

DavidGrain

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It has been announced that 6tph on the Cross City Line will not happen before 2030. We have been told on the University (Birmingham) Station Rebuild thread by someone who knows about such things that Kings Norton Station cannot cope with 6tph on the Cross City Line and 2tph (diesel) on the to be reopened Camp Hill Line plus XC trains and WMR trains to Worcester/Malvern.
 

The Planner

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It has been announced that 6tph on the Cross City Line will not happen before 2030. We have been told on the University (Birmingham) Station Rebuild thread by someone who knows about such things that Kings Norton Station cannot cope with 6tph on the Cross City Line and 2tph (diesel) on the to be reopened Camp Hill Line plus XC trains and WMR trains to Worcester/Malvern.
Who said 2030?
 

Wolfie

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It is a huge issue to deliver the principle of "everything must couple to everything else". A lot has happened since the old Southern buckeye couple, 27 way jumper and twin air hoses. There is a very large number of functions for which there are no UK let alone international standards. Indeed even simple things like relay logic train wires can cause problems because some trains use 24 Vdc and others use 110 Vdc. On the old BR provincial fleet, the interfaces were very simple - along the lines of the old SR days, and it was easy enough for Turbostar to be specified to couple to them. With more and more in-board kit, and fitting things like ETCS it will become increasingly difficult especially with the data systems that send signals up and down the train. I doubt that any of Northern's new trains will couple to the legacy fleet except for recovery.

Let's assume folk put in the effort to create a modern standard: "this coupler at this height will be used from now on and this is the list of functions and their specifications that have to pass across the coupler". What happens the following year when someone comes along with a new function that no one has thought of before? Is that function not allowed, or do those new trains become the exception? And what happens the following year with yet another new function?......and so on. I hope this illustrates why it's hard.
Yup, very rapidly you would have obsolete technical stasis
 

James Kevill

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So, the new Class 730 Aventra trains will not be delivered now or will it still continue to be delivered?
 

Peter Mugridge

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Just being silly here. Liveries have to have the doors a distinctive colour. On the photo above the driver's door is the same colour as the passenger doors. Does that mean that a passenger can get on through the driver's door? As I said I was just being silly.
It's not a silly question at all.

No, I don't think so because those doors, while they are the same colour as the passenger doors, do not contrast with their own surroundings. If they were intended for passenger use they would be the darker shade.
 

RealTrains07

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So, the new Class 730 Aventra trains will not be delivered now or will it still continue to be delivered?
They might aswell shorten the order or move them onto lines which the 323s previously ran such as the wolves - walsall which means the 350s running those can be displaced and used on other services
 

James Kevill

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I thought WMR would order 36 Class 730/0 units at first like it originally had. So are they going to shortened the number of order like 26 like Class 323s

Here are the routes that the 730/0s would operate are:

  • Redditch-Lichfield Trent Valley
  • Bromsgrove-Lichfield Trent Valley
  • Wolverhampton-Walsall via Birmingham New Street
 

DavidGrain

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RealTrains07

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I thought WMR would order 36 Class 730/0 units at first like it originally had. So are they going to shortened the number of order like 26 like Class 323s

Here are the routes that the 730/0s would operate are:

  • Redditch-Lichfield Trent Valley
  • Bromsgrove-Lichfield Trent Valley
  • Wolverhampton-Walsall via Birmingham New Street
Except its not confirmed that they will operate the wolves-walsall though.

As of right now. They will work exclusively on the cross city line.
 

RealTrains07

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In order to run a 6 car 6tph timetable on the cross city line. You would need 25 of 36 730/0 trains leaving 11 spare.

compared to currently where you would need 25 323 trains running leaving 1 spare.

I probably got my maths wrong at some but if the 6tph timetable was ever restored. More than enough flexibility (if this is right of course. Which is probably isnt)

For those who know how many of the 36 fleet would be needed to work a 4tph service and a 6tph on the cross city line.

how i have based it is 36 3 car trains = 18 6 car?
 

James Kevill

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They can't shorten the order, the contract is already in place.
That's a relief. I'm glad it'll be 36 units so the services will be busy.

Except its not confirmed that they will operate the wolves-walsall though.

As of right now. They will work exclusively on the cross city line.
Ok. Until the WMR will sort it out. And what about the Chase Line? The line is electrified so the electric trains can operate it.
 

The Planner

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A board meeting of the West Midlands Combined Authority, the parent body of West Midlands Rail Executive as reported in the Birmingham Mail
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/train-stations-moseley-kings-heath-20216024

I quote
The meeting also heard the existing Cross-City Line will drop down from six to four trains per hour – though it was also heard this is due to a prediction of reduced demand until 2030.
That doesn't mean that its 4tph to 2030.
 

RealTrains07

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That's a relief. I'm glad it'll be 36 units so the services will be busy.


Ok. Until the WMR will sort it out. And what about the Chase Line? The line is electrified so the electric trains can operate it.
As of right now until WMR say otherwise. Its fully operated by 350s
 

DavidGrain

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Makes you wonder why they ordered 36 in the first place though as 36 730/0s is overkill for the cross city
Perhaps the order was to operate all the local electric services in the West Midlands and have a genuine split of the franchise between LNR & WMR instead of having to put stickers on LNR trains saying that they also operate in the West Midlands.
 

RealTrains07

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Perhaps the order was to operate all the local electric services in the West Midlands and have a genuine split of the franchise between LNR & WMR instead of having to put stickers on LNR trains saying that they also operate in the West Midlands.
It would make sense. I have always found it odd that the 730/0s would only be working the cross city line
 

Energy

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Perhaps the order was to operate all the local electric services in the West Midlands and have a genuine split of the franchise between LNR & WMR instead of having to put stickers on LNR trains saying that they also operate in the West Midlands.
Probably.
 

DavidGrain

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As of right now until WMR say otherwise. Its fully operated by 350s
I have not seen a recent printed timetable for the Rugeley line but the last one I saw before Covid showed alternating services between WMR and LNR yet all the service were operated by LNR 350s.
 
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