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Arriva Scotland West

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Arriva Fan

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Hi All,

Having seen some really good archive First Glasgow Material on the FiG Thread, I just wondered if any members had similar Arriva Scotland West Material they wouldn't mind sharing.

I'll kick things off with the 'Last Network'

Looking forward to seeing others memories of ASW.
 

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Strathclyder

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Great idea for a thread for content not strictly related to the McGill's era, @Arriva Fan. :) While not a integral part of my childhood/early teens (First Glasgow and a motley bunch of independents took care of that), I still remember their motors buzzing about Glasgow. Hard to believe it's been over 9 years since they sold out to the 'lads in blue'; honestly doesn't seem like it's been that long. Two abiding, but relevent TV memories I have is at least one of their V-reg Wright-bodied B10BLEs appearing in a Series 2 episode of Still Game and one of their Metroriders in a Series 4 ep. with Robbie 'Davey The Bus Driver' Coltrane at the helm. :lol:

Smugmug's Victoryguy (Donald McRae) has two excellent galleries covering the companies' operations from the early post-Clydeside days to near the end (Feb. 2012). Both are linked below.


 
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Arriva Fan

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Great idea for a thread for content not strictly related to the McGill's era, @Arriva Fan. :) While not a integral part of my childhood/early teens (First Glasgow and a motley bunch of independents took care of that), I still remember their motors buzzing about Glasgow. Hard to believe it's been over 9 years since they sold out to the 'lads in blue'; honestly doesn't seem like it's been that long. Two abiding, but relevent TV memories I have is at least one of their V-reg Wright-bodied B10BLEs appearing in a Series 2 episode of Still Game and one of their Metroriders in a Series 4 ep. with Robbie 'Davey The Bus Driver' Coltrane at the helm. :lol:

Smugmug's Victoryguy (Donald McRae) has two excellent galleries covering the companies' operations from the early post-Clydeside days to near the end (Feb. 2012). Both are linked below.


Thanks Strathclyder, Arriva were my childhood, so many great memories with them. Just over 9 Years now of Service Reductions.

Smugmugs been a good source of photos, I've found a couple of good ones. I'll post my links tomorrow, in the meantime I've also found these.

 

Stan Drews

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Thanks Strathclyder, Arriva were my childhood, so many great memories with them. Just over 9 Years now of Service Reductions.
Do you think if Arriva had struggled on, they wouldn’t have made any service reductions?
 

Arriva Fan

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Do you think if Arriva had struggled on, they wouldn’t have made any service reductions?
I do think Arriva wouldn't have obliterated Journey Opportunities/Links to the extent McGill's have. The last ASW Network Changes made a lean, efficient, network. Efficiencies McGill's inexplicably reversed.

Arriva Scotland West probably wouldn't have overstretched themselves to the extent McGill's have, and neither would they have had £10Million+ to pay off from the Takeover.
 

Stan Drews

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I do think Arriva wouldn't have obliterated Journey Opportunities/Links to the extent McGill's have. The last ASW Network Changes made a lean, efficient, network. Efficiencies McGill's inexplicably reversed.

Arriva Scotland West probably wouldn't have overstretched themselves to the extent McGill's have, and neither would they have had £10Million+ to pay off from the Takeover.
What are the opportunities that you believe have been obliterated?
Comparing the Arriva network map you posted, with the current McGill’s network, there doesn’t appear to be many gaps.
 

Arriva Fan

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What are the opportunities that you believe have been obliterated?
Comparing the Arriva network map you posted, with the current McGill’s network, there doesn’t appear to be many gaps.
Compare direct links, and you'll find a lot of them have been lost. Johnstone housing estates to anywhere beyond the town centre will soon join the list. Johnstone also used to boast links to Partick and the Southern General Hospital. Now has no links to the new 'super' Hospital. The estates won't even have a link to the Royal Alexandra Hospital soon. They're bleeding passengers and handing them over to Key Coaches, ScotRail and taxis.

Arriva 17 used to combine with the 7 on the core corridor to operate every 10 minutes. McGill's have obliterated it to every 30 and a change is now required in Paisley. Journey opportunities might still technically be available, though at much greater inconvenience.

However McGill's market it, the fact is they've destroyed a network and their reputation. The mess they've made in Erskine, an area with no rail competition and where Arriva thrived is all the proof you should need.

This is what happens when a small cowboy outfit attempts to replace a multinational, experienced, transport provider.
 
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Robertj21a

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Compare Direct Links, and you'll find a lot of them have been lost. Johnstone Housing Estates to anywhere beyond the Town Centre will soon join the list. Johnstone also used to boast links to Partick & Southern General Hospital. Now has no links to the new 'super' Hospital. The estates won't even have a link to the RAH soon. They're bleeding passengers and handing them over to Key Coaches, ScotRail & taxis.

Arriva 17 used to combine with the 7 on the core corridor to operate every 10 Mins, McGill's have obliterated it to every 30 and a change is now required in Paisley. Journey opportunities might still technically be available, though at much greater inconvenience.

However McGill's market it, the fact is they've destroyed a Network and their reputation. The mess they've made in Erskine, an area with no Rail Competition and where Arriva thrived is all the proof you should need.

This is what happens when a small cowboy outfit attempts to replace a multinational, experienced, Transport Provider.
McGills - a small cowboy outfit.......

:E
 

Arriva Fan

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McGills - a small cowboy outfit.......

:E
Cowboys with backing, that's all they are.

Great idea for a thread for content not strictly related to the McGill's era, @Arriva Fan. :) While not a integral part of my childhood/early teens (First Glasgow and a motley bunch of independents took care of that), I still remember their motors buzzing about Glasgow. Hard to believe it's been over 9 years since they sold out to the 'lads in blue'; honestly doesn't seem like it's been that long. Two abiding, but relevent TV memories I have is at least one of their V-reg Wright-bodied B10BLEs appearing in a Series 2 episode of Still Game and one of their Metroriders in a Series 4 ep. with Robbie 'Davey The Bus Driver' Coltrane at the helm. :lol:

Smugmug's Victoryguy (Donald McRae) has two excellent galleries covering the companies' operations from the early post-Clydeside days to near the end (Feb. 2012). Both are linked below.



Some further smugmug galleries to enjoy :)

Arriva Scotland West - donaldstirling

Arriva Scotland West - londonbuspics (smugmug.com)

Arriva Scotland West Johnstone Depot - donaldstirling

Arriva Scotland West Inchinnan Depot - donaldstirling

Arriva Scotland - eamonnsphotos (smugmug.com)

Arriva Scotland - jimmyshengukbuses (smugmug.com)
 
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overthewater

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I do believe a pair of rose tinted specs is going on here, yes certain direct links are now gone but were in pandemic? Also the fleet Arriva had was very questionable and alot of cast offs from else where from the Arriva Empire was used. Arriva kept on cutting back its main network and by the end was no longer in a number of estate around the area. remember the 59/21 that was left to Gibson etc

Lets talk about Arriva last network?

* Arriva last ditch with the 7/17 well that operated up to Glasgow uni and had awful time keeping, alas it didn't work.
* 300 was replaced by extending the 22C to Clydebank ( mcgills restored the original route with 757)
* No30 was replaced by 38, with the No20 extended to Spateson.
* No60 was withdrawn and No66 IE Airport buses were diverted into Shortroods.
* No3 service ended up as 101 so the route was Glasgow - Silverburn - Auchenbank - Paisley - Renfrew - Braehead,
 
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Arriva Fan

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I do believe a pair of rose tinted specs is going on here, yes certain direct links are now gone but were in pandemic? Also the fleet Arriva had was very questionable and alot of cast offs from else where from the Arriva Empire was used. Arriva kept on cutting back its main network and by the end was no longer in a number of estate around the area. remember the 59/21 that was left to Gibson etc

Lets talk about Arriva last network?

* Arriva last ditch with the 7/17 well that operated up to Glasgow uni and had awful time keeping, alas it didn't work.
* 300 was replaced by extending the 22C to Clydebank ( mcgills restored the original route with 757)
* No30 was replaced by 38, with the No20 extended to Spateson.
* No60 was withdrawn and No66 IE Airport buses were diverted into Shortroods.
* No3 service ended up as 101 so the route was Glasgow - Silverburn - Auchenbank - Paisley - Renfrew - Braehead,
Let's not play the 'pandemic card'. Cuts started on 26 March 2012. Cascades are a regular strategy for Big Groups, especially to marginal OpCos. But everything that came in from London (ALX200 Darts for 36/38 & Pointer Darts for 26) was heavily refurbished and converted to single door. Compare that to the influx of tired dual door ex Stagecoach London ALX400 Tridents McGill's shipped in.

*Arriva 7/17 was diverted to provide good links to the Glasgow Uni/Byres Road. Poor timekeeping is the fault of councils and poor traffic management.
*Arriva 22C provided Glenburn (Nethercraigs) with a direct link to Clydebank. No longer possible.
*Arriva 20 was extended to Spateston around 2004. 20/30 Interworked for a while before 38 Route was changed to cover 30 in 2011. Combining 30/38/39 was a better, more efficient and provided more connections.
*Arriva 60 was not withdrawn, and interworked with the 20 in the last timetables. 60 operated Foxbar-Paisley-Gallowhill Community Centre (since cut off by McGill's truncated 20).
*Arriva 66 operated every 10 Mins from Paisley to Glasgow Airport, timed at 14 Mins from Gilmour St to Airport. McGill's 757 every 30 Mins and same route (Via Shortroods). No Improvement.
*Arriva 3 became the 103 to interwork with 101 in Barrhead. Better to operate as 101 throughout, removing confusion and simplifying the Service.
 

Jordan Adam

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In fairness it is McGills who have continually invested in new vehicles and arguably as a whole have one of the smartest fleets in the country (even if i think some of their marketing is a bit dated/garish). Compare that to Arriva who were pretty much running relics of a previous century on core routes. Fitting a LED display in to a 15 year old Olympian doesn't "modernise" it. McGill's vehicles internally are also far nicer, unlike Arriva with their rancid Avocado Bathroom inspired interiors which are a relic that should've been left in the 1980s.

You could argue for forever and a day about what services cut were/weren't justified, but you need to face the reality that bus services are not as profitable as they once were, look nation wide and you'll generally see a trend where services have been massively simplified/scaled down. Now i'm not saying all cuts were justified and i'm sure those at McGill's in hindsight would probably agree about one or two particular cases, however you can't expect a company to maintain a service commercially that is unviable.

Although there was some concerns about McGill's future a few years back it's pretty evident now that those concerns were nothing more than concerns given they were in the position to outbid other companies in the purchase of Xplore Dundee during a pandemic.
 

Strathclyder

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In regards to Arriva's interior spec of this period looking like a throwback to a 80s bathroom, it's a matter of personal taste by and large. Speaking for myself (I know, hardly an authoritive source!), I don't mind it all that much. Hardly the worst by any means, but not the best either.

You all can go back and forth about the nature of the service cuts McGill's have made over the years 'til the cows come home, but let me pose this question: if Arriva were the ones making these changes/cuts in McGills' place, how much outrage would it generate? Rose-tinted specs are all well and good - I should know: I wear them often enough! - but they don't often, if at all, gel with the realities of keeping a company solvent, viable and profitable in the face of a ever-evolving market and industry, I'm afraid. While I personally don't have any time for the two guys at the head of McGill's, I can begrudgingly acknowledge that they are shrewd businessmen. Sound like anyone else in this industry we know?

While some of McGill's purchases in their post-ASW takeover expansion faultered and thus withered away (the near clean sweep of the Monklands indys and the McColl's of Balloch takeover, am looking at you two in particular), I think they were in the best possible position for a pandemic and all that entails suddenly rearing it's ugly head, which is why the Xplore Dundee takeover (well, more it's timing than anything else) will never not be odd to me, regardless of it's prospective success or failure. It's early days yet at any rate, so am gonna refrain from calling it a busted flush for the time being.

As for the age of vehicles ASW - the main topic of this thread let's not forget! - were operating in the late 2000s: Olympians - heck, double deckers in general - were always in the minority when compared to saloons in the ASW fleet and, given it's size (especially when compared to the likes of First Glasgow), their precense would've had a fairly noticable effect on it's age profile in any given year. That said (and I'm open for correction here), I don't think the intention ever was to give them a complete refurb top to bottom; an internal spruce-up/retrim with new blinds to eek out a few more years' use from looking at the pics was the order of the day, at least as far as I can tell.

Moving on to the saloons, while some brand new stock had made it's way into the fleet in the 2008-09 period (all from the Volvo, Scania & DAF/VDL catalogues), a good portion of it was made up of ex-Clydeside & London vehicles mixed in with stock both from ASW's first few years & others parachuted in from other Arriva divisions. While the end result was a varied and rather mish-mash selection of chassis and bodies, most were kept fairly tidy and to a presentable standard. Of course, some vehicles let the side down - same with any other division of the big companies; Arriva were/are hardly unique here - but on the whole it was on par with or better than it's fellow Arriva subsidiaries in this regard.

Whether or not that last part is a good thing is bound to be debated ad infinitum. I'd expect nothing less from this forum. ;)
 

route101

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There was some long routes during the Arriva years. The 7 or 17 (It keeps changing) ran all the way to Largs. Then there was the odd ball coach route that ran from Airdrie via Glasgow to Braehead(Not sure if it went onto Paisley). Or the Airport to East Kilbride service, which was quiet.

I cant remember if Arriva ran alongside Mcgills on the x23?
 

Stan Drews

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McGills - a small cowboy outfit.......

:E
I think we’ve quickly confirmed that Arriva Fan is somewhat biased towards the aquamarine, as their name suggests, so whilst it’s amusing to read the rants, there seems little likelihood of any reasoned discussion about bus services in Renfrewshire in the 21st century.
 

sannox

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I used Arriva's network extensively when I lived in Paisley. I remember (a huge number of years ago!) I used to have a monthly pass for £28 a month- £7 a week.

The 17 was an annoying route. Very, very unreliable when it ran 30 mins between Glasgow and Largs and horrible to use! The competition with Dart saw Arriva leave Gryffe area and West Renfrewshire and the lack of coverage following that persists to date although Riverside tried for a time and McGill's had some half-hearted services.

The vehicles Arriva had were largely from Clydeside days- didn't get much other than cast offs from London. McGill's have streamlined the network, some better, some worse but vehicle quality is better.

McGill's and Arriva both suffered from First's dominance in Glasgow and largely an inability to make inroads to local journeys in Glasgow. You do wonder whether a network that reduced some of the duplication and combined ticketing might benefit all, especially post pandemic.
 

Strathclyder

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I used Arriva's network extensively when I lived in Paisley. I remember (a huge number of years ago!) I used to have a monthly pass for £28 a month- £7 a week.

The 17 was an annoying route. Very, very unreliable when it ran 30 mins between Glasgow and Largs and horrible to use! The competition with Dart saw Arriva leave Gryffe area and West Renfrewshire and the lack of coverage following that persists to date although Riverside tried for a time and McGill's had some half-hearted services.

The vehicles Arriva had were largely from Clydeside days- didn't get much other than cast offs from London. McGill's have streamlined the network, some better, some worse but vehicle quality is better.

McGill's and Arriva both suffered from First's dominance in Glasgow and largely an inability to make inroads to local journeys in Glasgow. You do wonder whether a network that reduced some of the duplication and combined ticketing might benefit all, especially post pandemic.
Aye, that's a fair summary of Arriva Scotland West's state of affairs from my very limited experience with them. The last point would be relevent back in the Clydeside v. Strathclyde era too to a degree.

As for the ex-Clydeside vehicles at the start of ASW's tenure, it was a mix of Alexander-bodied Leopards, East Lancs-bodied Scanias, Optare Metroriders and Alexander/Plaxton-bodied Darts plus a few Merc breadvans. Most of the Darts lived long enough to make it into McGill's ownership, but their time there before withdrawal varies. Last few stragglers went in 2014-15, I think. The last of the ex-London ALX200-bodied Dart SLFs (V-LWT/V-LGC regs which were roughly at midlife when parachuted into ASW) were withdrawn in September/October 2015 (attached images are my own).

24311487282_663058e343_b.jpg 21091223473_4cd005c422_b.jpg 49850179658_956a131558_b.jpg
 
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GaryMcEwan

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I've always had a bit of soft spot for ASW.

They might not of had the best fleet, but their prices compared to McGill's were much more reasonable at the time and actually ran a night service which McGills stopped almost immediately after buying them.

Although I do wonder what would've happened to them if McGills hadn't bought them over.
 

route101

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I used Arriva's network extensively when I lived in Paisley. I remember (a huge number of years ago!) I used to have a monthly pass for £28 a month- £7 a week.

The 17 was an annoying route. Very, very unreliable when it ran 30 mins between Glasgow and Largs and horrible to use! The competition with Dart saw Arriva leave Gryffe area and West Renfrewshire and the lack of coverage following that persists to date although Riverside tried for a time and McGill's had some half-hearted services.

The vehicles Arriva had were largely from Clydeside days- didn't get much other than cast offs from London. McGill's have streamlined the network, some better, some worse but vehicle quality is better.

McGill's and Arriva both suffered from First's dominance in Glasgow and largely an inability to make inroads to local journeys in Glasgow. You do wonder whether a network that reduced some of the duplication and combined ticketing might benefit all, especially post pandemic.
I'm surprised First has not given up on the 9, maybe there is an agreement? McGills have tenders in Glasgow/Lanarkshire but no proper routes. I find the standard of McGills buses much better than first. Yes is a little annoying if you want to go to Braehead and you have First day ticket and McGills offer the faster service.
 

Stan Drews

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The 17 running all the way to Largs? Bloody hell that must’ve been a journey and a half.
In the good old days, I think you also had the 14 to Ayr, and 15 to Ardrossan going down the Garnock Valley and via the Clyde Tunnel to/from Glasgow. I think they all ran hourly.
 

Scotrail314209

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In the good old days, I think you also had the 14 to Ayr, and 15 to Ardrossan going down the Garnock Valley and via the Clyde Tunnel to/from Glasgow. I think they all ran hourly.
Oh my, Stagecoach would not have liked that at all.

I'm presuming they would've ran via Paisley & Johnstone?
 

awsnews

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The 17 running all the way to Largs? Bloody hell that must’ve been a journey and a half.
Found this on Flickr (leon41075), the March 85 timetable (so Western) for the 17:

If you look in the album the 14 and 15 timetables are also there.
 

PaulMc7

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Found this on Flickr (leon41075), the March 85 timetable (so Western) for the 17:

If you look in the album the 14 and 15 timetables are also there.
It is pretty interesting how that route still exists to this day but just split at Paisley. Been on the 904 from Paisley to Largs a couple of times and it is a decent route. I haven't really used the 17 in recent times but I do remember when it used to be much busier
 

Scotrail314209

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Found this on Flickr (leon41075), the March 85 timetable (so Western) for the 17:

If you look in the album the 14 and 15 timetables are also there.
Yes, although that was still in Western days, before deregulation or Stagecoach.

Thanks both! Makes for some very interesting reading.

Not specifically Arriva, but related in someway.

Does anyone remember that bus company that operated services from Paisley - Foxbar following the same route as Arriva's 61? They used some smaller buses which were either red or blue.
 

Strathclyder

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Not specifically Arriva, but related in someway.

Does anyone remember that bus company that operated services from Paisley - Foxbar following the same route as Arriva's 61? They used some smaller buses which were either red or blue.
Riverside Transport, based off of the livery description. Born out of Clydeside's former training school and founded by ex-Clydeside employees, they were based out of Barrhead and were a sister firm of DJ International, who handled school work and private hires. They lasted into the McGill's era, but just barely, ceasing trading in 2013. DJ, through various permutations (change of ownership, change of trading name) has survived to the present day (these days as Swift Coaches). @awsnews may be able to correct or affirm the above.
 

sannox

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The 17 running all the way to Largs? Bloody hell that must’ve been a journey and a half.

It was. Around the time of the introduction of free bus travel for OAPs in 2002/3 it was really popular with pensioners and not uncommon in summer to see people using the 17 to Largs from Glasgow and Paisley. The split made sense.

Arriva's 17 changes to run via University also made sense on paper but added too much running time and missed out some key stops.

Thanks both! Makes for some very interesting reading.

Not specifically Arriva, but related in someway.

Does anyone remember that bus company that operated services from Paisley - Foxbar following the same route as Arriva's 61? They used some smaller buses which were either red or blue.

Riverside Transport, based off of the livery description. Born out of Clydeside's former training school and founded by ex-Clydeside employees, they were based out of Barrhead and were a sister firm of DJ International, who handled school work and private hires. They lasted into the McGill's era, but just barely, ceasing trading in 2013. DJ, through various permutations (change of ownership, change of trading name) has survived to the present day (these days as Swift Coaches). @awsnews may be able to correct or affirm the above.

I don't think it was Riverside- don't remember them on Foxbar runs, but pretty sure they picked up a run to Glenburn. I think it was Travel Direct (red buses) and Fairway Coaches (blue). They ran to Gallowhill, Ferguslie and Glenburn as well as Foxbar too.
 

Scotrail314209

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Riverside Transport, based off of the livery description. Born out of Clydeside's former training school and founded by ex-Clydeside employees, they were based out of Barrhead and were a sister firm of DJ International, who handled school work and private hires. They lasted into the McGill's era, but just barely, ceasing trading in 2013. DJ, through various permutations (change of ownership, change of trading name) has survived to the present day (these days as Swift Coaches). @awsnews may be able to correct or affirm the above.

Wasn't Riverside put under scrutiny as they more or less vanished off the face of the earth without notice?
 
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