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Llangollen Railway appoints receivers

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ic31420

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As a kid, we used to go to Llangollen for the santa specials every year without fail. We always used to book a compartment which seated 6 (there was 6 of us) then they altered it to squeeze 8 in,so all of a sudden you'd be mingled in with half another family which put us off in the end.

I used to go there for the diesel galas, but over the years the diesel fleet dwindled right down to the point where I don't think they even did diesel galas? The line only really appeals these days to those who fancy a trip on an old steam hauled train rather than enthusiasts, they don't really offer much else. Over the last 20years they seem to have narrowed their market right down to fit the one image and one era in my opinion.

So I could either drive all the way into Llangollen from Merseyside, struggle to park, for a rare day where they have a diesel locomotive scheduled to run which may not run as is often the case. OR, I could drive for a similar amount of time in the opposite direction to the East Lancashire Railway, for a diesel weekend where I am guaranteed a good variety of traction. For me its a no brainer!

Llangollen is a railway I really used to love, and it's been a shame to watch its demise. Unfortunately it just doesn't offer what I look for anymore

Certainly interesting. While I don't have the pedigree of going to Llan as a kid it was the exploits of the diesel group around the time of 37901 that got me into the railway.

I attended pretty much every year at least once a year from that point on until the diesel group fractured and split. I have then attended a few times since but much less than I had. It had been my intention to bring my son in 2019 but illness put that off and last year but there was a bug going around which meant we couldn't go.

The reduction in the diesel fleet isn't so much of a problem as they have taken to bringing in some cracking engines on loan which is certainly the way to go as an A1A member I try to support their fleet by going wherever they are within means too. I cant remember the ins and outs but the fall out and reorganization of the line about the time the diesel group was ousted or pushed away left a bitter taste.

Parking for me isn't an issue as I either park at Carrog or Cycle from Ruabon station.
 
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EbbwJunction1

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I am a single person who doesn't drive and wishes generally to make at least one return journey when visiting a heritage railway.

Therefore, my plans always centre around how easy is it for me to get to the main departure / arrival point (which isn't always one end) of the railway. For the Llangollen, it would be Llangollen; for KESR, it would be Tenterden and so on. This sometimes (as now) means that some railways are inaccessible (i.e. the GSWR, because it's virtually impossible to get to Toddington by public transport), but this is, I know, a temporary thing and I'll be back there once the Racecourse station has reopened.

I don't generally take coach tours in the UK, but I do in France and Belgium when visiting the Battlefields because, although I could do some of these visits myself, the transport would be a problem in some areas. In addition, these are guided tours with very good guides, which is part of the trip and very much a bonus.

My other experience of coach tours comes from my work with Cadw, the Welsh Historic Monuments body. It was noticeable that the priority of many of the "senior" visitors on these tours was firstly a toilet and secondly a cafe; in fact, many of the visitors never actually visited the monument in question if we didn't have one or both of these! There wasn't much we could do about it, so we didn't try; it was something that we had to accept.

Another consideration was the amount of time that tours allocated to visiting a specific place. Generally, unless they were booked into an event at a monument, they didn't actually have very much time there, as they were travelling around a fairly large area each day.

These are just a few random thoughts, but I hope that you'll find them useful (and not too far off topic!).
 

L401CJF

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What an interesting post. My impression of the Llangollen is of somewhere that could use diesel traction to advantage as that rat hole of a tunnel made keeping things clean a losing battle. Probably the bulk of the clientèle preferred steam. The Isle of Wight Steam Railway experimented with a diesel Gala a little while ago but it was not lucrative and was discontinued. In other words you stick with your particular strengths. With the IOWSR the unique selling point is ''no blasted boring Mk.1 carriages'' whilst that of Llangollen is the Deeside scenery.
Exactly what you have said, that the main market seems to be aimed at non enthusiasts for a trip behind an old steam train through the Dee Valley.
Certainly interesting. While I don't have the pedigree of going to Llan as a kid it was the exploits of the diesel group around the time of 37901 that got me into the railway.

I attended pretty much every year at least once a year from that point on until the diesel group fractured and split. I have then attended a few times since but much less than I had. It had been my intention to bring my son in 2019 but illness put that off and last year but there was a bug going around which meant we couldn't go.

The reduction in the diesel fleet isn't so much of a problem as they have taken to bringing in some cracking engines on loan which is certainly the way to go as an A1A member I try to support their fleet by going wherever they are within means too. I cant remember the ins and outs but the fall out and reorganization of the line about the time the diesel group was ousted or pushed away left a bitter taste.

Parking for me isn't an issue as I either park at Carrog or Cycle from Ruabon station.
It was the likes of 37901 and 37240 that gave me a reason to travel there. I'm sure I read somewhere that 240 was repainted and fitted with headcode boxes as the railway didn't want "modern" livery diesels as it wasn't inkeeping with their era.

As has been said they seem to aim at the one market mainly, and while it is nice that the LDG are trying their best and have tge 31 on hire etc, given the number of people I've seen onboard on a diesel day (plenty) and the amount of money other railways such as the East Lancs must generate on their hugely successful and more than one a year diesel galas, I think it is a missed opportunity.
 

LSWR Cavalier

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Getting coach parties to visit a railway, spend in the cafe, restaurant, gift shop, without going on the train could make good financial/business sense.
 

Bletchleyite

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Getting coach parties to visit a railway, spend in the cafe, restaurant, gift shop, without going on the train could make good financial/business sense.

Indeed. I don't know about the Llangollen, but I'm quite familiar with the Talyllyn, and my experience of that is that they arguably make more of the shop, cafe and small museum than they do of the train ride itself (which is fairly boring once you've done it once for the experience). Which does make sense, because e.g. locals will no doubt happily use the cafe, potentially even daily, but once they've done the train once that'll do, as it doesn't serve a useful public transport purpose.
 

BayPaul

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Indeed. I don't know about the Llangollen, but I'm quite familiar with the Talyllyn, and my experience of that is that they arguably make more of the shop, cafe and small museum than they do of the train ride itself (which is fairly boring once you've done it once for the experience). Which does make sense, because e.g. locals will no doubt happily use the cafe, potentially even daily, but once they've done the train once that'll do, as it doesn't serve a useful public transport purpose.
referencing the Dartmouth line again (not necessarily a fair comparison, but the only one I have the details of) they only make 10% of their revenue in shops / cafes etc, with 90% being ticket sales on trains, boats and busses.
Also worth remembering that effectively 100% of revenue from ticket sales goes towards fixed costs (if you assume the timetable, and so coal and staff costs are fixed), whereas shops and cafes have larger variable costs (as they have to buy the products to sell, and charge VAT), so a pound taken in the shop isn't worth nearly as much as a pound taken for a ticket.
 

paul1609

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Id suggest that 90% is an extreme figure for a heritage railway and that 70 to 80% is the norm. Its difficult to say because events like Thomas, Santa, Pullman Dining etc aren't generally regarded as fares.
However I think that the "Amazon Effect" has generally devastated Shop income over the last 10 years and that catering profitability has been massively hit by increases in the minimum wages.
 

Titfield

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However I think that the "Amazon Effect" has generally devastated Shop income over the last 10 years and that catering profitability has been massively hit by increases in the minimum wages.

Retail is especially challenging for heritage railways as the sale of books, magazines, dvds and souvenirs has dropped considerably due to changes in habit but also the power of amazon (as paul1609) suggests. Model railway retailing is now highly competitive when one considers eHattons, Kernow to name but two.

Catering has been hit not only by increases in minimum wage (and compulsory pension contribution) but also the growth of Greggs into many tourist towns.

Can I also point out that many cafes struggle if a coach party descends for "tea and cake" unless reserved in advance.
 

EbbwJunction1

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The article above also provides a link to the auctioneer's web site.

This gives the following list of what's to be sold on 12th May:

"Equipment to include (Subject to Availability):

Rolling stock:
10 x BR Mark 1 coaches, BREL Mark 3A function coach, Type 13 diesel shunter, Case/Rexquote Superailer 988-P-SP2 road/ rail excavator (2003), Cowans Sheldon 56-ton rail mounted crane, BR type GUV box van bogie, Plasser Thurer 12-tonne general purpose rail crane and Lowmac 25-tonne wagon fitted with Atlas Terex hydraulic crane.

Engineering:
XYZ Proturn SLX 425 x 1.25m CNC lathe (2017), Newall 75 JMT vertical jig borer, Harrison M390 gap bed lathe, Colchester Mascot 1600 gap bed lathe, Prosaw Mega Machine Co Ltd BS-400SA horizontal bandsaw (1996), Colchester Triumph 2000TR SS and SC lathe, Morgan PBR2000 pyramid bending rolls, radial arm drills, milling machines, lathes, slotter, grinders, jibs etc.

Handling equipment:
Linde H30D diesel fork lift (2007) and JCB 520.50 Loadall telehandler (2011).

Vehicles:
Peugeot Partner 850 1.6 HDi 92 Professional van (15 plate), Ford Transit 330 MWB TDCi 115ps van (60 plate) and Ford Transit 260 SWB TDCi 100ps van (12 plate)."

It also says under Collection Information:
"By Fri 28th May 2021 - Strictly by Appointment Only (no further access is available after this date)"
 

John Luxton

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What an interesting post. My impression of the Llangollen is of somewhere that could use diesel traction to advantage as that rat hole of a tunnel made keeping things clean a losing battle. Probably the bulk of the clientèle preferred steam. The Isle of Wight Steam Railway experimented with a diesel Gala a little while ago but it was not lucrative and was discontinued. In other words you stick with your particular strengths. With the IOWSR the unique selling point is ''no blasted boring Mk.1 carriages'' whilst that of Llangollen is the Deeside scenery.

Personally who spent too much of their life as a youngster rattling round on first generation DMUs - I find the Llangollen's extensive DMU fleet one of the attractions of the line and actually can wallow in 1960s and 70s nostalgia. Can always remember my first on DMUS to Chester, Ormskirk whilst on home territory and on the St Ives branch when on holiday. What is more the LR's DMU fleet always appears better turned out and cleaner than the Mk1 stock. I think for many visitors sat up near the front or rear of a DMU with the scenery of the Dee Valley would be a major attraction. It is almost as good as an FWHR observation car!

So I could either drive all the way into Llangollen from Merseyside, struggle to park, for a rare day where they have a diesel locomotive scheduled to run which may not run as is often the case. OR, I could drive for a similar amount of time in the opposite direction to the East Lancashire Railway, for a diesel weekend where I am guaranteed a good variety of traction. For me its a no brainer!

Llangollen is a railway I really used to love, and it's been a shame to watch its demise. Unfortunately it just doesn't offer what I look for anymore.

ELR is probably a tad nearer to me on Merseyside. I have been once when it opened. I don't go for several reasons - one of which is its location and as my interests are mainly GWR / BRWR and SR BRSR it is always south or west for me. Also I prefer Wales to North West England.
 
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swanhill41

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The article in Liverpool Echo,ref buyer in the wings is very interesting.We shall see what sort of buyer it is.Another railway or person with deep pockets?
 

kje7812

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The article above also provides a link to the auctioneer's web site.

This gives the following list of what's to be sold on 12th May:

"Equipment to include (Subject to Availability):

Rolling stock:
10 x BR Mark 1 coaches, BREL Mark 3A function coach, Type 13 diesel shunter, Case/Rexquote Superailer 988-P-SP2 road/ rail excavator (2003), Cowans Sheldon 56-ton rail mounted crane, BR type GUV box van bogie, Plasser Thurer 12-tonne general purpose rail crane and Lowmac 25-tonne wagon fitted with Atlas Terex hydraulic crane.

Engineering:
XYZ Proturn SLX 425 x 1.25m CNC lathe (2017), Newall 75 JMT vertical jig borer, Harrison M390 gap bed lathe, Colchester Mascot 1600 gap bed lathe, Prosaw Mega Machine Co Ltd BS-400SA horizontal bandsaw (1996), Colchester Triumph 2000TR SS and SC lathe, Morgan PBR2000 pyramid bending rolls, radial arm drills, milling machines, lathes, slotter, grinders, jibs etc.

Handling equipment:
Linde H30D diesel fork lift (2007) and JCB 520.50 Loadall telehandler (2011).

Vehicles:
Peugeot Partner 850 1.6 HDi 92 Professional van (15 plate), Ford Transit 330 MWB TDCi 115ps van (60 plate) and Ford Transit 260 SWB TDCi 100ps van (12 plate)."

It also says under Collection Information:
"By Fri 28th May 2021 - Strictly by Appointment Only (no further access is available after this date)"
Llangollen doesn't have any Mark 3s AFAIK. This seems to be M34584, a heavily modified Mark 1 which elsewhere has been misdescribed as a mark 3.
 
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nanstallon

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It is hard to know whether people on the platform are just looking and not buying tickets to ride. I very often, if not usually, buy a ticket to ride, and on coming back hang around to take some snaps, especially at an atmospheric station like Llangollen. Some railways perhaps do shoo you off the platform once you've completed your journey, not good PR!
 

ABB125

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The article above also provides a link to the auctioneer's web site.

This gives the following list of what's to be sold on 12th May:

"Equipment to include (Subject to Availability):

Rolling stock:
10 x BR Mark 1 coaches, BREL Mark 3A function coach, Type 13 diesel shunter, Case/Rexquote Superailer 988-P-SP2 road/ rail excavator (2003), Cowans Sheldon 56-ton rail mounted crane, BR type GUV box van bogie, Plasser Thurer 12-tonne general purpose rail crane and Lowmac 25-tonne wagon fitted with Atlas Terex hydraulic crane.

Engineering:
XYZ Proturn SLX 425 x 1.25m CNC lathe (2017), Newall 75 JMT vertical jig borer, Harrison M390 gap bed lathe, Colchester Mascot 1600 gap bed lathe, Prosaw Mega Machine Co Ltd BS-400SA horizontal bandsaw (1996), Colchester Triumph 2000TR SS and SC lathe, Morgan PBR2000 pyramid bending rolls, radial arm drills, milling machines, lathes, slotter, grinders, jibs etc.

Handling equipment:
Linde H30D diesel fork lift (2007) and JCB 520.50 Loadall telehandler (2011).

Vehicles:
Peugeot Partner 850 1.6 HDi 92 Professional van (15 plate), Ford Transit 330 MWB TDCi 115ps van (60 plate) and Ford Transit 260 SWB TDCi 100ps van (12 plate)."

It also says under Collection Information:
"By Fri 28th May 2021 - Strictly by Appointment Only (no further access is available after this date)"
Am I the only person who's annoyed by "type 13" shunter? Should be "class 13" (unless of course it's something completely different!)?
 

D6130

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Am I the only person who's annoyed by "type 13" shunter? Should be "class 13" (unless of course it's something completely different!)?
I thought that a class 13 shunter was a 'master and slave' double unit formerly used in Tinsley Yard near Sheffield.
 

D6130

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Perhaps they mean a class 14.....0-6-0 centre cab diesel-hydraulic (D9500 series), of which a large number have been preserved?
 

ABB125

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Cowley

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Now that you mention it, that rings a bell. I'll take a look in my archive!

Here it is!
View attachment 94397
Taken in 2017, on an organised shed visit for the group I was with.


Yep, as above!

Yep there you go. The original number when painted in BR black in the 1950s (I’d assume?).
I actually didn’t realise that they had such an early one.
 

WesternLancer

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Presumably if you bid at auction assuming you were getting a rare Tinsley Master and Slave unit you would be able to take the auction vendor / administrator to task under some sort of mis-description of sales legislation....o_O
 
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L401CJF

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Personally who spent too much of their life as a youngster rattling round on first generation DMUs - I find the Llangollen's extensive DMU fleet one of the attractions of the line and actually can wallow in 1960s and 70s nostalgia. Can always remember my first on DMUS to Chester, Ormskirk whilst on home territory and on the St Ives branch when on holiday. What is more the LR's DMU fleet always appears better turned out and cleaner than the Mk1 stock. I think for many visitors sat up near the front or rear of a DMU with the scenery of the Dee Valley would be a major attraction. It is almost as good as an FWHR observation car!



ELR is probably a tad nearer to me on Merseyside. I have been once when it opened. I don't go for several reasons - one of which is its location and as my interests are mainly GWR / BRWR and SR BRSR it is always south or west for me. Also I prefer Wales to North West England.
I was going to bring up the DMUs in my first post but forgot to add it in! Yes you're right, they seem to be one of the main attractions from what I've seen.
 

EbbwJunction1

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Presumably if you bid at auction assuming you were getting a rare Tinsley Master and Slave unit you would be able to take the auction vendor / administrator to task under some sort of mis-description of sales legislation....o_O
I didn't appreciate the mistake when I posted it!

However, you'd be well advised to view before buying, so I doubt that this kind of mistake would happen ... well, I hope not!
 
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