It'll be TrainFX to match the rest of the fleet. Not sure on which style internal screen. I believe the advertising screens will be fitted. There's a couple of technical details to be finalised before it can be installed on both the 170s and 333sProbably sounds a bit of a pedantic question, but is the existing PIS being updated with Northern's voice recordings or is it being replaced with TrainFX like the rest of the fleet? If TrainFX do you happen to know if it's the scrolling LED screens, or the LCD ones that display the text in yellow on blue?
Also, are the additional larger advertising screens at the ends of the carriages (as seen on some of the Sprinters) being fitted?
Explains the lack of announcements still on 170sIt'll be TrainFX to match the rest of the fleet. Not sure on which style internal screen. I believe the advertising screens will be fitted. There's a couple of technical details to be finalised before it can be installed on both the 170s and 333s
There are many issues with the quality of finish on 323s that returned from Wolverton which I am surprised weren't flagged on their handover to Northern. Every single unit has issues which should've been picked up by whoever signed them off as complete.Incidentally some of the paint being on the refurbs doesn't seem to be the highest quality - see the attached photos, which shows grab rails with the relatively new yellow paint already starting to chip off!
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It'll be TrainFX to match the rest of the fleet. Not sure on which style internal screen. I believe the advertising screens will be fitted. There's a couple of technical details to be finalised before it can be installed on both the 170s and 333s
If only there was a catchy label that could be applied to rubbish public information systems, á la "ironing board" seats...The TrainFX plague spreads ever further. The worst system ever fitted to a train and a borderline safety hazard. Utter rubbish.
Absolutely, I can't stand it. For what it's worth, I think 170s on Northern currently have an almost perfect setup - visual screens that normally work to provide passengers with the calling pattern and stop we're approaching, no auto announcements but a PA handset at every guard panel so that wherever you are you can make any required announcements. Out of interest, do you know what EMR's 170s are fitted with?The TrainFX plague spreads ever further. The worst system ever fitted to a train and a borderline safety hazard. Utter rubbish.
Definitely. If I recall there was something of a rush to shove them through the refurb program before their PRM derogation expired, with some original parts being left in on the first few units to go through the process simply because there wasn't enough time for them to be ordered and delivered.There are many issues with the quality of finish on 323s that returned from Wolverton which I am surprised weren't flagged on their handover to Northern. Every single unit has issues which should've been picked up by whoever signed them off as complete.
Absolutely, I can't stand it. For what it's worth, I think 170s on Northern currently have an almost perfect setup - visual screens that normally work to provide passengers with the calling pattern and stop we're approaching, no auto announcements but a PA handset at every guard panel so that wherever you are you can make any required announcements. Out of interest, do you know what EMR's 170s are fitted with?
There are many issues with the quality of finish on 323s that returned from Wolverton which I am surprised weren't flagged on their handover to Northern. Every single unit has issues which should've been picked up by whoever signed them off as complete.
The 323s refurbishment was/is very disappointing. I've been saying for years there should be extremely strict criteria for refurbishments because the quality between units and franchises is bewildering. Attention to detail was clearly lacking in who whoever was charge of the design and works. I know people are talking about the paint on the handrails by the doors peeling. My beef is that the handrails are overly clunky. The top of them should be terminated in a way not to be a snag hazard. I was amazed they got away with that and no one at Northern or the company contracted to undertake the works didn't at least ask the question "what happens if someone leans on the side of the door opening button, disembarks and snares their bag on the top of the handrail?" And don't get me started about the dust absorbing seating. Bizarre.There are many issues with the quality of finish on 323s that returned from Wolverton which I am surprised weren't flagged on their handover to Northern. Every single unit has issues which should've been picked up by whoever signed them off as complete.
Incidentally some of the paint being on the refurbs doesn't seem to be the highest quality - see the attached photos, which shows grab rails with the relatively new yellow paint already starting to chip off!
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Not as things stand - the PA handset is also under the cover. I can't think of any stock that doesn't have the door controls protected, to be honest.Could the door controls be done without a cover is another question, afterall a key is needed for the CAF units once the cover is open.
AHH yes I'd forgotten about the karaoke system.Not as things stand - the PA handset is also under the cover. I can't think of any stock that doesn't have the door controls protected, to be honest.
AHH yes I'd forgotten about the karaoke system.
The only other door systems I'm familiar with are 142s and 150/156s... Did / do you need a key to operate them beyond opening the cover?
Yeah you do.
142s were a flippy-up panel above the doors nearest the cabs. Local door operation opened literally just one half of the door.
150s (at least at Northern) have the door controls in the non-public parts of the train, and are behind a swing-out panel IIRC.
156s have a panel that swings down in the vestibule.
PA for all of those is in the cab IIRC.
Fair nuff...
Was that a propper key or the same square key as what you open the panel with?
150/1 control panels don't have covers, or so I believe.Not as things stand - the PA handset is also under the cover. I can't think of any stock that doesn't have the door controls protected, to be honest.
They don’t as they’re in a non public area.150/1 control panels don't have covers, or so I believe.
True, but as @Neptune says they're in a non-public area (the vestibule door should be locked). On a 150/2 the vestibule can be used by passengers when it's not a driving end so the controls are secured behind a cover. It's the same as how 170 and 32x door controls in the cab aren't covered up.150/1 control panels don't have covers, or so I believe.
It very much was rushed - as mentioned before the first few units left Wolverton with the old lighting and door controls simply because there wasn't time for them to arriveI personally think the 323 refurbishment was rushed as northern decided to keep them at the last minute in favour of the 319s with them being replaced by more 323s from WMT depending if it's 17,26 or any other number.
Which is exactly the point. If more time had been available then they could have waited for the door controls to be ordered, produced and delivered before sending the first ones for refurb.The door controls were on a very long lead time which basically meant that the first units would have to be retro fitted.
I don't believe that they actually "forgot" to order the parts. Surely they must have some kind of inventory tracking system which works these things out automatically?As for the LED lighting, well, Gemini were the overhaulers of the units, forgetting to order the materials before it starts is a bit of a faux pas.
Waiting for parts like the door controls to be delivered before finishing the first unit is not a factor. Work is bid for and all these sorts of issues are taken into account. Units have to be completed in a set time as per the agreed contract, if a part isn't available until, say, 4 units into the program, the program will not be held up waiting (you're talking about a delay of around 4 months, you won't hold a unit for that length of time when items can be retro fitted at a later date at depot).Which is exactly the point. If more time had been available then they could have waited for the door controls to be ordered, produced and delivered before sending the first ones for refurb.
I don't believe that they actually "forgot" to order the parts. Surely they must have some kind of inventory tracking system which works these things out automatically?
The issues that you see as of today were certainly not there when they were signed off. Before each unit is output they are inspected by both Northern, Porterbrook and Gemini for defects and everything is highlighted. At times there were over 50 snags raised on each vehicle. These are then put right before being inspected again for completion and then the units are released.There are many issues with the quality of finish on 323s that returned from Wolverton which I am surprised weren't flagged on their handover to Northern. Every single unit has issues which should've been picked up by whoever signed them off as complete.
I beg to differ on many of the comments here. The units were pushed back in to service with a multitude of deficiencies after their 'improvement' works. From missing panels to poorly affixed panels, missing door stops, thin paint application to name but three. PRM requirements dictated entire replacement of the doorway grab rails which are the area many have alluded to as being one of the most obvious poorly fabricated items with potential for becoming caught up on. It genuinely disapoints me that if it is correct the units were inspected and signed off as acceptable the delegated person from Northern apparently didn't know the unit well enough to know what is correct as I can categorically state the units returned from 'improvement' works with Gemini with issues which weren't there previouslyWaiting for parts like the door controls to be delivered before finishing the first unit is not a factor. Work is bid for and all these sorts of issues are taken into account. Units have to be completed in a set time as per the agreed contract, if a part isn't available until, say, 4 units into the program, the program will not be held up waiting (you're talking about a delay of around 4 months, you won't hold a unit for that length of time when items can be retro fitted at a later date at depot).
And yes, believe what you like, but they did forget to order the LED lights.
The issues that you see as of today were certainly not there when they were signed off. Before each unit is output they are inspected by both Northern, Porterbrook and Gemini for defects and everything is highlighted. At times there were over 50 snags raised on each vehicle. These are then put right before being inspected again for completion and then the units are released.
Looking at some of the items posted on here, it's correct, time hasn't been long since overhaul and the standard of paint (on grab poles and the likes) hasn't worn well, just depends on the process used (and the quality of the supplier).
Other issues raised such as grab rail termination, these have been on the units since build and won't have been changed during refurb, simply powder coated. The positioning of the TFX displays have all been done with PRMTSI regulations in mind so are in the correct positions.
indeed, some of the Northern 158's had incredibly comfortable seats before refurb!I rode 2 158s in the Newcastle area earlier this week. They both had ironing board seating. This may well have been mentioned here before, but I was expecting better from 158s as they of course never had ironing board seating when new.