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Businesses in England that will still restrict entry (via face masks) after July 19th

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NorthOxonian

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Why so bothered if others want to continue wearing them? Are you bothered if other people wear a hat, a scarf or pants?
If it is just going to become a personal choice then both sides of the debate need to respect the other sides decision and everyone can then just go about their lives without stressing themselves over what strangers are wearing.

For the record, I'm more than happy to be seeing these restrictions being eased but I have no issue if someone else wants to maintain 2 metres away from me or if they want to continue wearing a mask. It has zero effect on my life and therefore see no point in getting uptight about it! That being said though, I will be returning to my face covering come winter as I purchased a neck gaiter as my choice of covering so as to be able to use it as a source of warmth during the cold days :D
I differ from a lot of people on here in that it really does bother me, and if I had total power I would ban them. I'm sorry, I know I'm supposed to be tolerant, but I've spent the last year trying and face coverings still unsettle me just as much as they did a year ago. The prospect of them being around for all eternity just fills me with dread. Clearly I don't have the power to ban them but if we became a masked society I would seriously consider emigrating - that's how serious this is for me.

There is absolutely no comparison with normal clothes.
 
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The_Train

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I differ from a lot of people on here in that it really does bother me, and if I had total power I would ban them. I'm sorry, I know I'm supposed to be tolerant, but I've spent the last year trying and face coverings still unsettle me just as much as they did a year ago. The prospect of them being around for all eternity just fills me with dread. Clearly I don't have the power to ban them but if we became a masked society I would seriously consider emigrating - that's how serious this is for me.

There is absolutely no comparison with normal clothes.
All you've told me here is that they unsettle you and you'd ban them, amongst other fear driven things, but you've not said anything about what causes you to endure these feelings towards absolute total strangers making their own choice, just the same as you have in not wanting to wear one, with what they wear. So what is it that causes you such fear and dread about something that won't have any impact on you as you have the control of whether you wear one or not?

And I believe there is a comparison to be made over any clothing or accessory someone wants to wear. Providing it is not offensive in anyway, everyone has a personal choice of what to wear and as I say I shall return to my face covering because it doubles up as a neck warmer in winter. And talking of winter, I've seen a lot of people suggesting that it is the lack of facial communication that bothers them but for Winter and possibly Autumn months lots of people roam around with much thicker pieces of fabric covering their mouth and nose anyway!

Oh and I wouldn't rush to emigrate. This is a worldwide pandemic and masks are being worn around the world - the same debate will undoubtedly be had in many countries as their own restrictions are eased! A phrase that involves the leaping out of a frying pan comes to mind
 

Smidster

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I think that far far too much of the debate, on all sides, is an obsession with face mask rules.

It is a very bad thing because it means we pay no attention to the things that might actually have a major impact (e.g support for people who need to isolate / vaccine uptake) but instead spend all our energy arguing endlessly about something which, at best, appears to have a very marginal impact in most situations.

I just feel for the people on the front line who will have to deal with this rubbish next week - it could get ugly quickly.
 

trebor79

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I hate wearing them. I don't like seeing people in them but that's their choice and doesn't really bother me. What bother me more.is the puerile cartoon posters andntanniy announcements reminding people to wear them.
I suspect that assuming it goes ahead on Monday the matter will fade from the spotlight in a few weeks or months and efforts to get people to wear them will be quietly withdrawn.
But so long as I'm never forced to wear one again, I couldn't really care less what others choose to do.
 

NorthOxonian

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All you've told me here is that they unsettle you and you'd ban them, amongst other fear driven things, but you've not said anything about what causes you to endure these feelings towards absolute total strangers making their own choice, just the same as you have in not wanting to wear one, with what they wear. So what is it that causes you such fear and dread about something that won't have any impact on you as you have the control of whether you wear one or not?

And I believe there is a comparison to be made over any clothing or accessory someone wants to wear. Providing it is not offensive in anyway, everyone has a personal choice of what to wear and as I say I shall return to my face covering because it doubles up as a neck warmer in winter. And talking of winter, I've seen a lot of people suggesting that it is the lack of facial communication that bothers them but for Winter and possibly Autumn months lots of people roam around with much thicker pieces of fabric covering their mouth and nose anyway!

Oh and I wouldn't rush to emigrate. This is a worldwide pandemic and masks are being worn around the world - the same debate will undoubtedly be had in many countries as their own restrictions are eased! A phrase that involves the leaping out of a frying pan comes to mind
I don't really understand what you're driving at with that first question. The reason why I'm so concerned about this is fear - I hate the sight of people wearing masks. It makes me feel like I'm living in a horror move, and I feel completely disconcerted around these faceless people. As I say, I've tried many different things over the last year to try and shake that feeling, but I can't. It is just something I can't tolerate, unfortunately. I have nothing against those who wear them as people, it's purely out of dislike for the mask - and that feeling of extreme unease around those with covered faces is why I care about the personal decisions of others. I completely understand that this can't be a dictatorship and people can't be compelled to not wear masks just because it makes others uncomfortable. But this is purely about my personal feelings - I can't really help them.

As to that last point, there are some countries which are far less aggressive about them and where far fewer people seem to be pushing to make them the new normal for all eternity. It isn't something I'd just rush into, but the prospect of living in a masked society scares me so much that I would uproot everything to move to a society that wasn't masked.
 

Bantamzen

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All you've told me here is that they unsettle you and you'd ban them, amongst other fear driven things, but you've not said anything about what causes you to endure these feelings towards absolute total strangers making their own choice, just the same as you have in not wanting to wear one, with what they wear. So what is it that causes you such fear and dread about something that won't have any impact on you as you have the control of whether you wear one or not?

And I believe there is a comparison to be made over any clothing or accessory someone wants to wear. Providing it is not offensive in anyway, everyone has a personal choice of what to wear and as I say I shall return to my face covering because it doubles up as a neck warmer in winter. And talking of winter, I've seen a lot of people suggesting that it is the lack of facial communication that bothers them but for Winter and possibly Autumn months lots of people roam around with much thicker pieces of fabric covering their mouth and nose anyway!

Oh and I wouldn't rush to emigrate. This is a worldwide pandemic and masks are being worn around the world - the same debate will undoubtedly be had in many countries as their own restrictions are eased! A phrase that involves the leaping out of a frying pan comes to mind
If people wish to continue to wear masks after next week, that's entirely up to them. But if businesses are to "encourage" their use through endless posters, a barrage of announcements, and maybe a hi-viz wearing employee at the door, then this is where the line between choice & mandate by guilt blurs.

@Watershed mentions the comparison between religious doctrine and mask wearing. For some its just a means to an end, for others the mask has moved from something that might ot might not help to a symbol of safety, and that their absence on others signals instant danger. I see this all the time, from people leaping into roads to avoid passing an unmasked pedestrian through to people exchanging angry glares, comments and even outright confrontation. Masks have become for some not an option but an obligation, and in some eyes a cause of anger when masks are not used.

The government should be advising business to choose if they want to allow masks wearing, not the other way around. We all know what awaits us next week. The announcement in Tesco's blares out "We invite you all to wear you mask for your good, and the safety of all those in our stores.", and dozens of people behind masks turn to those without and glare at them as if they were some murderer or terrorist. One eventually pipes up and confronts someone, voices raise, tempers fray, and eventually someone takes a swing. Rinse and repeat. After all we have been through, more angst and anger is the last thing we need.

I will not be wearing masks next week, I will respect those who do so long as they repsect my decision and don't treat me like some leper.
 

ChrisC

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I think it will be very interesting to see what actually does happen next week. I really have no idea whether there will be a large number of people who give up wearing masks. There may be significant regional variations. Lots of people in this forum have reported a general trend of more and more people not wearing masks on public transport these last few weeks, especially in London.

Today I had a great day out in the Peak District using a Derbyshire Wayfarer. I travelled on 2 trains and 5 buses during the day but I have to say that I hardly came across anyone not wearing a mask. My final journey was from Sheffield to Alfreton and what surprised me were the large number of people wearing masks whilst waiting on the platform at Sheffield. I certainly didn’t, because I could see no sense in it when standing outside, as even the Sheffield air is preferable to wearing a mask outside. I did put on a mask to board the train. The train was quite busy and I have to say that it was almost 100% mask wearing on board. I really do hope that this is not going to be the trend from next week. I can put up with wearing one for short journeys but once it gets over an hour, especially in hot weather, I really have had enough.
 

Failed Unit

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It is interesting the “MD” in private eye seems to think compliance is already dropping. The Matt Hancock effect.
 

NorthOxonian

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It is interesting the “MD” in private eye seems to think compliance is already dropping. The Matt Hancock effect.
Compliance is definitely lower now than it was a couple of months ago. But it's probably gone from 90% to 70%, rather than 90% to 10%. Next Monday may be a different story.
 

alxndr

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That is correct. If people are getting muddled, then they must get muddled very easily.
You would probably consider me to be someone who "gets muddled very easily."

I really struggled when face-coverings were announced and introduced. I'm a very rule-bound person and the fear of getting the rules, both written and unwritten, wrong with everything that changed really messed with me. I'm not exaggerating; it culminated in me breaking down in an Aldi carpark as although I had no food in the house, already lost a significant amount of weight, and was regularly being kept awake by hunger, I still couldn't force myself to enter. It was the catalyst that got me to seek answers and get diagnosed with autism.

The legal standing may be clear, but the lack of clarity in expectations and policies is not clear. All the unwritten rules of the world are hard enough to navigate for someone like me without a whole host of new ones being added as well. I was already nervous about how I would react when the rules on face-coverings changed but I didn't expect it to be as piecemeal as what we have now. For all the talk of how mandating face coverings negatively impacts people with disabilities, no one is talking about how the way in which the rules are being changed could impact the same people.

For all the stress that face-coverings brought me, and the fact that I don't find them pleasant or comfortable to wear, I'm still not convinced that relaxing the rules on them being required is a wise idea right now. Even if we hypothesise that they have absolutely zero transmission reduction benefits at all (I think they do to some degree, but that's a debate I know I'm not going to win here and has already been done to death), I do think that they still serve as a reminder that things are not normal. And I don't think that's a bad thing. Cases are rising, the number of people in hospital is rising, the number of people on ventilators is rising. Maybe it's not risen that high yet, but having everyone go hell for leather with no hesitation strikes me as a really good way to end up with those cases rising.

I'm not someone who thinks that lockdown should continue indefinitely, or that we will ever get entirely rid of COVID. I do however think that letting it spread like wildfire is a bad idea—that's how you get mutations—and that some sense and self-restraint still needs to be employed. Seeing face coverings around will be a subconscious reminder to do so if nothing else.
 

WestRiding

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Just to add to the discussion. Just had an email from Vets for Pets, saying they will not let you in the vets without a mask, and all current restrictions are in place. This is getting beyond the joke now. Freedom day my fat hairy back side, while ever business is allowed to undermine the government's advice. When did the UK population become so pathetic and touchy feely. You can't even go in the surgery with your pet, they make you hand over at the door. Rant over, sorry about that, but seriously, does nobody want to be normal again?
 

PTR 444

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Both Isle of Wight car ferry companies have stated they will be continuing with their own mask mandate.

RED Funnel has confirmed its passengers will still be require to wear face coverings following 'Freedom Day'.

From July 19, in line with government guidance, Red Funnel will be making some changes to its service.

While there will be no legal requirement to wear a face covering, the cross-Solent ferry company is asking customers to wear mask while on its ferries and in its terminals.
The only exception is if a passenger is exempt, under 11 years of age, on outside decks, or when eating/drinking.

Ferry passengers will still be required to wear face coverings when they are inside Wightlink's ferries, after July 19.

Masks will also be required at the operator's ports after what has been dubbed 'Freedom Day.'

Wightlink has confirmed the measures, brought in to stop the spread of Covid-19, will continue for anyone who is not exempt and social distancing will also continue.
It says hygiene will be maintained on its boats and on shore and onboard fogging machines will be used to clean large areas.

With so much discrepancy, I wonder if it might be worth the OP editing the original list to include all companies/organisations known to be continuing with masks, and mods to make this thread a sticky so people can easily refer to it.
 

trebor79

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I think these businesses will soon relax their stance. I just won't be giving businesses like that my custom.
Trains seemed markedly quieter today than last week. I saw more people wearing masks on platforms than I have done recently, seems bonkers to me masking on the open air but whatever.
Usual level complaince on the trains, except for groups of older (retired age) people on days out laughing and joking and enjoying some bottles of wine with no mask in sight. Everyone else masked.
I as I have done for the past few months left my mask in my pocket all day and as usual nobody said a dickie bird.

Both Isle of Wight car ferry companies have stated they will be continuing with their own mask mandate.



Ridiculous. What are they going to do, cast you adrift in a lifeboat halfway across the Solent if you take it off after departure and refuse to out it back on?

I struggle to believe that any of these private mandates will be enforced in any way whatsoever. It'll just causes uproar and arguments. I'm pretty convinced they are just pandering to the righteous Twitter lot.
Let's see what actually happens.
 
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brad465

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I think that far far too much of the debate, on all sides, is an obsession with face mask rules.

It is a very bad thing because it means we pay no attention to the things that might actually have a major impact (e.g support for people who need to isolate / vaccine uptake) but instead spend all our energy arguing endlessly about something which, at best, appears to have a very marginal impact in most situations.

I just feel for the people on the front line who will have to deal with this rubbish next week - it could get ugly quickly.
Some studies think the basic reproduction number of the Delta variant is as high as 8. If it is this level or even at least 5, I really cannot see how any restrictions or masks can actually control its spread. The only property that will control its spread is existing immunity in a population, whether through vaccination or previous infection.
 

robbob700

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I see the Starcross Ferry is continuing to mandate masks after July 19th with no exemptions (apart from children under 6)
 

WestRiding

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I see the Starcross Ferry is continuing to mandate masks after July 19th with no exemptions (apart from children under 6)
I wish the customers, English Citizens had the balls to boycott the service. Their stance would soon change.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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I have been a member of this website since April 2011, a year after I took retirement, and in that time, I have noted there were quite a number of people on this website are supportive of the Labour Party. Noting the position now held by the Labour Party and the Labour Mayoral city regions with regards to lockdown adherence, how the views of those website members who are supportive of the Labour Party are with regards to this specific matter. I am sure that the phrase "trade unionists" was used by a person in the Labour Movement as an example of people who could be affected by the Governmental advice relaxation of this current third-wave in the current Covid-19 pandemic.
 

yorkie

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Just to add to the discussion. Just had an email from Vets for Pets, saying they will not let you in the vets without a mask....
But will they dare deny entry to anyone who claims an exemption? If so, they are risking legal action.

I see the Starcross Ferry is continuing to mandate masks after July 19th with no exemptions (apart from children under 6)
If anyone who is exempt is refused carriage, I would be interested in putting them in touch with a solicitor who may be interested in pursuing the company for damages.

I will not be wearing masks next week, I will respect those who do so long as they repsect my decision and don't treat me like some leper.
Same here.

And if anyone requires an exemption card, I'm happy to provide them.

Waterstones reporting to be continuing the charade
But not mandatory there
I think that far far too much of the debate, on all sides, is an obsession with face mask rules.

It is a very bad thing because it means we pay no attention to the things that might actually have a major impact...
Exactly! This is a great example of why Sweden is right on this.

(e.g support for people who need to isolate / vaccine uptake) but instead spend all our energy arguing endlessly about something which, at best, appears to have a very marginal impact in most situations...
See my previous posts on this matter for more detail but in summary: social media is awash with a highly vocal minority of people who are authoritarians who seek to downplay the vaccines effectiveness as a reason for mandating others wear flimsy masks (while ducking the debate over flimsy masks Vs FFP3 type masks)

All you've told me here is that they unsettle you and you'd ban them, amongst other fear driven things, but you've not said anything about what causes you to endure these feelings towards absolute total strangers making their own choice, just the same as you have in not wanting to wear one, with what they wear. So what is it that causes you such fear and dread about something that won't have any impact on you as you have the control of whether you wear one or not?

And I believe there is a comparison to be made over any clothing or accessory someone wants to wear. Providing it is not offensive in anyway, everyone has a personal choice of what to wear and as I say I shall return to my face covering because it doubles up as a neck warmer in winter. And talking of winter, I've seen a lot of people suggesting that it is the lack of facial communication that bothers them but for Winter and possibly Autumn months lots of people roam around with much thicker pieces of fabric covering their mouth and nose anyway!
You completely miss the point but this isn't the place for that debate.

Oh and I wouldn't rush to emigrate. This is a worldwide pandemic and masks are being worn around the world - the same debate will undoubtedly be had in many countries as their own restrictions are eased! A phrase that involves the leaping out of a frying pan comes to mind
You forget Sweden. If I worked from home, I'd move there if I could. But again thread isn't the place to debate this further.

I have been a member of this website since April 2011, a year after I took retirement, and in that time, I have noted there were quite a number of people on this website are supportive of the Labour Party. Noting the position now held by the Labour Party and the Labour Mayoral city regions with regards to lockdown adherence, how the views of those website members who are supportive of the Labour Party are with regards to this specific matter. I am sure that the phrase "trade unionists" was used by a person in the Labour Movement as an example of people who could be affected by the Governmental advice relaxation of this current third-wave in the current Covid-19 pandemic.
I have my views on Labour but the topic is best discussed in a separate thread.
 
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DelayRepay

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I note many businesses are saying that they will continue to ask/expect customers to wear masks 'unless exempt'.

It is less clear where these exemptions are defined. Currently, they are defined in law (the same laws that say we have to wear masks). Those laws are null and void from Monday so if the businesses are implementing their own 'rule' requiring masks, are they also implementing their own list of exemptions?

In terms of shops, I'm not expecting any kind of enforcement. I expect their 'encouragement' will be limited to a poster by the door. Certainly around here we don't have staff manning the doors any more, and given the current levels of absence/isolation I doubt many businesses could spare a member of staff.

I remember when the mask rules came in last year, most of the supermarkets said they would not expect their staff to enforce them. I think we'll be back to that position to be honest and we'll see a gradual drop in wearing of masks over the next few weeks.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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I spoke to TfGM at 1715 this evening to a contact there that is known to me and being most guarded in his reply, all he would say that there had been an internal meeting in which the legal view of a fine was on the agenda. I put it to him it would have been better had the meeting taken place prior to TfGM putting the matter in print on their weekly update email.
I checked on the TfGM website this morning and there is now a new section that states the following:-

Roadmap out of lockdown - 19 July changes

The move to step 4 of the government's Roadmap to Recovery on 19 July does not mean the risk from Coronavirus has disappeared. People are encouraged to use public transport, particularly at quieter times, but to help each other safe using the Metrolink network, bus stations or transport interchanges in Greater Manchester, where they must still wear a face covering unless exempt. In addition, passengers travelling on buses and trains in Greater Manchester are expected to wear a face covering unless exempt.
 

VauxhallandI

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Every business that does this has to be able to demonstrate:

1 - What is the source/data set they are monitoring?
2 - What is the frequency of this monitoring?
3 - What is the threshold that would mean the removal of the policy?
4 - Who is making the decisions and what are their qualifications to do so?
 

Failed Unit

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I have got a email from Costa - they will not me mandating masks / social distancing anymore. But ask for people to respect people that do want to. That is going to create some interesting discussions inside.

"Do you mind putting your mask on?" - "Yes"
"Could you not sit at that table as you are too close to me" - "It is the only table left"

I really think people naturally distance in such places, just like in the toilet, where you always pick the space that it furthest away from everyone else.

However good news from Costa, hopefully others will take the same approach.

While face covers and the two-metre social distancing will no longer be mandatory, we know that for many customers these practices continue to provide comfort when they are in public places. We therefore ask you for your continued support for those who choose to wear a face covering, or would like some additional space when ordering to take away or choosing to sit inside

Be very interesting how many bother to take out their masks at all next week.

I checked on the TfGM website this morning and there is now a new section that states the following:-

Roadmap out of lockdown - 19 July changes

The move to step 4 of the government's Roadmap to Recovery on 19 July does not mean the risk from Coronavirus has disappeared. People are encouraged to use public transport, particularly at quieter times, but to help each other safe using the Metrolink network, bus stations or transport interchanges in Greater Manchester, where they must still wear a face covering unless exempt. In addition, passengers travelling on buses and trains in Greater Manchester are expected to wear a face covering unless exempt.
That last point is interesting, as they have no mandate over Northern services, but if they did, when do they expect put your mask on if you are travelling on a Sheffield - Manchester hope valley service? ;)
 

Watershed

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That last point is interesting, as they have no mandate over Northern services, but if they did, when do they expect put your mask on if you are travelling on a Sheffield - Manchester hope valley service? ;)
About 500 yards before Strines station, as you pass the 174¼ mile marker - isn't that obvious! :lol:

1626429568294.png
 

John Luxton

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All those who want masks to end - get out there next week, maskless, nice and cheerful and visit various shops/places. The more people who see others not wearing, the more it will drop away.

I intend to do just that - can't wait. Also going to make a point of using the bus again for first time since the mask nonsense started. Though observing bus passengers from my car - I think quite a few have long since given up anyway. :D

I think the reason why they take up so much space on the forum is because they're so visible. It is the most obvious sign that things are not normal. And as far as I'm concerned, no matter how many "freedom days" we have, as long as masks are a common sight we will not be back to normal.
100% Agreement there - I said when this all started I will only accept normal normal - "new normal" has remained an alien concept.
 
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trebor79

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I intend to do just that - can't wait. Also going to make a point of using the bus again for first time since the mask nonsense started. Though observing bus passengers from my car - I think quite a few have long since given up anyway. :D
It's shops I'm looking forward to being able to go in without having to run the gauntlet of the door guard making sure everyone is masked up. And never being barked at again for daring to poke my nose out in the chilled section to stop my glasses fogging up.

I haven't masked on trains or stations for months and have never had a problem. On two occasions railway staff asked if I had a mask "I'm exempt" was accepted without quibble. One terrified passenger started trying to lecture me, having literally just heard the conversation with the railway staff but I soon shut that conversation down.

From my observations, younger people seem more likely to be masked, soo quite a lot of pensioners on trains getting on with life without the comfort blanket.
 

John Luxton

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Just to add to the discussion. Just had an email from Vets for Pets, saying they will not let you in the vets without a mask, and all current restrictions are in place. This is getting beyond the joke now. Freedom day my fat hairy back side, while ever business is allowed to undermine the government's advice. When did the UK population become so pathetic and touchy feely. You can't even go in the surgery with your pet, they make you hand over at the door. Rant over, sorry about that, but seriously, does nobody want to be normal again?
There is a Vets for Pets located quite close to my independent vets practice. Since this all started Vets For Pets don't even appear to allow people into their premises, they have to wait outside and go to a table. However, back in February when I took my cat for her annual health check to my vet around the corner you could go inside - they had just spaced out the waiting room chairs a bit and were basically operating as normal.
 

XAM2175

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The legal standing may be clear, but the lack of clarity in expectations and policies is not clear. All the unwritten rules of the world are hard enough to navigate for someone like me without a whole host of new ones being added as well. I was already nervous about how I would react when the rules on face-coverings changed but I didn't expect it to be as piecemeal as what we have now. For all the talk of how mandating face coverings negatively impacts people with disabilities, no one is talking about how the way in which the rules are being changed could impact the same people.
This is something for which I've had considerable concern too, and I commend you for being open about it. The government have effectively outsourced their responsibility to businesses and individuals for little reason other than to ease pressure on themselves and there are people who will be caught in the cross-fire.

As much as I wish to see masks gone sooner rather than later, I'm honestly glad that I'll not be in England for the next few weeks, and that I hope the derestriction process up here is more clear and orderly.

Every business that does this has to be able to demonstrate:

1 - What is the source/data set they are monitoring?
2 - What is the frequency of this monitoring?
3 - What is the threshold that would mean the removal of the policy?
4 - Who is making the decisions and what are their qualifications to do so?

But they don't need to, that's the point of contention with the government divesting themselves of responsibility. You can desire it from businesses, but your only option in the event of them not delivering is to withdraw your custom.
 

John Luxton

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I haven't masked on trains or stations for months and have never had a problem. On two occasions railway staff asked if I had a mask "I'm exempt" was accepted without quibble. One terrified passenger started trying to lecture me, having literally just heard the conversation with t
Not travelled on network train since March 2020. Have travelled on some heritage lines, some have a more relaxed mask approach than others. Thus those have had repeat visits from me.
 

trebor79

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8 Mar 2018
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Not travelled on network train since March 2020. Have travelled on some heritage lines, some have a more relaxed mask approach than others. Thus those have had repeat visits from me.
You really should travel on the network. It's actually rather pleasant with quiet trains and the only delay I've encountered is when a cow was hit by a train on the ECML, everything else has been absolutely punctual. Quite enjoyed the time in the mobile office.
They have been getting busier more recently although I noticed every service I was on yesterday was much quieter than has recently been the case.
Don't be put off by any mask stuff, it's really no hassle at all.
 
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