• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Scotrail - Post Covid Consultation - Service Reductions

Status
Not open for further replies.

northernbelle

Member
Joined
10 Oct 2018
Messages
679
I don't see what is unsuitable about 170s. They have very nice low density interiors, good seats, excellent window alignment and aren't excessively noisy. The main issue with them was 3 car being too short, but if demand is well down it probably isn't.

Can anyone shed any light on why the timetable I linked above seems to show 2 northbound 170 services but 5 southbound? An error, or interworking with the Aberdeen route?
Me neither - give me a 170 (or better still a pair of 170s) over a short HST any day. The seats are far more comfortable, they feel less hemmed in and they seem to be more dependable. I also prefer the better accessibility they offer.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,521
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
This used to be one of the bugbears with the HML service - there was a 3 car 170 that left Glasgow at 1810 or so for Inverness, so the first of the evening off-peak services. It stopped at Every. Single. Station. from Larbert to Inverness, including "local" shacks like Bridge of Allan & was always absolutely mobbed with a mix of local commuters & people who'd waited for the first off-peak departure.

Yes, that isn't great. A logical Takt would have something more local (to Dundee perhaps) run hourly ahead of the HML service, which itself should do Stirling and Perth then all stations to Inverness. The express would have caught up by Stirling or Perth and would provide quality interchange.

Speculative thread to continue this line of discussion:
 

cf111

Established Member
Joined
13 Nov 2012
Messages
1,346
I don't see what is unsuitable about 170s. They have very nice low density interiors, good seats, excellent window alignment and aren't excessively noisy. The main issue with them was 3 car being too short, but if demand is well down it probably isn't.

Can anyone shed any light on why the timetable I linked above seems to show 2 northbound 170 services but 5 southbound? An error, or interworking with the Aberdeen route?
I too like the 170s. The seats are lovely and the legroom at the airline seats is frankly luxurious. As you say one issue is that they are too short and the other issue is that they don't have anywhere near enough luggage space. Those grievances aside they're nice trains to travel on, I just wish they were a wee bit longer.
 

snookertam

Member
Joined
22 Sep 2018
Messages
774
There are plenty of ways to save money but they would not be politically acceptable. ScotRail have survived for nearly 18 months with ticket examiners not examining tickets. They could introduce penalty fares and reduce the amount of ticket examination, reduce station staffing with more use of ticket machines, increase driver only operation etc.

More importantly, getting more passengers on the trains paying fares would increase revenue to reduce the need to save money. In my experience the amount of ticketless travel I observe at present is quite high as people don’t bother to buy a ticket unless challenged. Also the Scottish Government
and the railway industry need to encourage people back onto trains having told them how dangerous trains were for the past year (as opposed to “very safe” car travel).

Reducing services as proposed, I believe, will reduce revenue significantly as existing passengers transfer to buses as a result of increased journey times and longer waiting times.

Someone may correct me but I believe penalty fares have been deemed as incompatible with Scottish law. Don’t think they exist anywhere here. Agree completely with the rest of your post though.

I've noticed that the E+G Shuttles haven't been as busy as usual since their conversion to 8 car 385s. I've noticed that quite a lot of people don't seem to be willing to walk up the platforms at Queen St/Waverley and instead seem to aim for the first 4 or 5 coaches. Most of the passengers that seem to get on the front 2 or 3 coaches seem to board at intermediate stations instead.

No they were never too busy even before covid, certainly never full and standing although we’re well patronised during the peaks. And passengers mainly using the back coaches at Waverley was useful for the many (possibly more) passengers who joined at Haymarket. I believe the thinking was that the increased capacity would be able to cope with expanding passenger numbers in the future - the only thing that was likely putting passengers off were the extortionate peak time fares.
Yes, that isn't great. A logical Takt would have something more local (to Dundee perhaps) run hourly ahead of the HML service, which itself should do Stirling and Perth then all stations to Inverness. The express would have caught up by Stirling or Perth and would provide quality interchange.

Speculative thread to continue this line of discussion:

A takt plan that operated all day might have been the best way to proceed here, especially when it is commuting numbers that are likely to have taken the hit. I’ll contribute to that thread when I have the chance.
 

Bikeman78

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2018
Messages
4,493
It's the Dutch system as well (ironically, given who currently runs ScotRail). One example I used frequently in the before-times is Amersfoot, which acts as a 4-way hub to create a half-hourly frequency between Schiphol/Utrecht and Enschede/<somewhere I can't remember>.
Zwolle is the fourth place. Trains then continue to Groningen or Leeuwarden. It's quite impressive to watch long trains of Koploper units arrive side by side on and island platform. Dozens of passengers change in both directions and then three or four minutes later they both depart. Something rarely seen in the UK. Most of the junctions have flyovers or dive unders so trains can arrive from either route without conflict. Essentially they have been aiming for Intercity and stoppers every 15 or 30 minutes on most routes and have gradually built the infrastructure to support this.

That is a downside, but the corresponding upside is faster boarding/alighting and easier access to seats.



They are as quick off the mark as a full size HST or Pendolino. They are slightly underpowered, I'll give you, but it doesn't overly matter on long distance services because there aren't many stops. They are bad at local stopping services, but the Highland Mainline isn't a local stopping service even though most trains serve most stations, because they are so far apart.
The slowness of DMUs was emphasised when the Edinburgh to Glasgow line was wired. The 365s were running to DMU schedules in July 2019. Typically they arrived two or three minutes early at intermediate stations. Plenty of time at Croy to stroll (yes literally) over the footbridge and take a photo from the other platform. 170s are lovely to travel on but they are slow. 175s are much quicker off the mark.
 
Last edited:

GALLANTON

Member
Joined
18 May 2021
Messages
246
Location
Scotland
No they were never too busy even before covid, certainly never full and standing although we’re well patronised during the peaks. And passengers mainly using the back coaches at Waverley was useful for the many (possibly more) passengers who joined at Haymarket. I believe the thinking was that the increased capacity would be able to cope with expanding passenger numbers in the future - the only thing that was likely putting passengers off were the extortionate peak time fares.

Pre-covid the 8 car 385s were always empty in the front 2 coaches, this also seemed to be the case when the 365s were operating the service. In the Turbostar days even a 6 car set could be extremely busy leaving Queen Street and it was absolutley horrendous if a 3 car Turbo appeared.
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
10,594
Pre-covid the 8 car 385s were always empty in the front 2 coaches, this also seemed to be the case when the 365s were operating the service. In the Turbostar days even a 6 car set could be extremely busy leaving Queen Street and it was absolutley horrendous if a 3 car Turbo appeared.

I always walk to the front of the 8 car set. You may get a a fair few passengers joining at Croy at the front though. The peak time fares in the afternoon are the most annoying aspect of the route.
 

marks87

Established Member
Joined
23 Jun 2010
Messages
1,609
Location
Dundee
Zwolle is the fourth place. Trains then continue to Groningen or Leeuwarden. It's quite impressive to watch long trains of Koploper units arrive side by side on and island platform. Dozens of passengers change in both directions and then three or four minutes later they both depart. Something rarely seen in the UK. Most of the junctions have flyovers or dive unders so trains can arrive from either route without conflict. Essentially they have been aiming for Intercity and stoppers every 15 or 30 minutes on most routes and have gradually built the infrastructure to support this.
That’s it - thanks!

I remember the first time I went to Enschede (from Schiphol) and waited for the direct train because I didn’t trust the 2-minute connection at Amersfoort. But when planning my train back, the people I was meeting said it wasn’t a problem and the cross-platform interchange is the most normal thing, and as good as being on a direct train.

I can’t see it catching on here, though. Even if you were able to fit together a suitable timetable, it would also rely on always being able to path services to ensure they come in across the platform from each other.

As you say, it’s something that needs the infrastructure designed to accommodate it. It’s a shame, though, because when you look at Dundee and Stirling, they would be perfect for such interchanges (in terms of where they are on the line) for increased opportunities to Glasgow/Edinburgh from Aberdeen and Inverness respectively.
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
10,594
The only winner from this timetable consultation will be the bus & coach companies who will gain extra passengers put off with the unsuitable rolling stock (3 coach 170s) or extended journey times by the trains calling at every granny's front door.

Some of evening trains when they drop to hourly will be rammed with passengers returning home after an evening out in the city and you know they will be as short as possible (single units) to save on the cost.
Already happening, hourly East Kilbride on Friday and Saturday nights.
 

PaulMc7

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2019
Messages
4,029
For me, if you want to get people back on trains the price difference between peak and off peak has to disappear.

For my situation, even just into the city centre the train is £22 a month more expensive than the bus, takes a few mins longer and there's more buses than trains. In the morning peak I think it's 15/16 express buses to 4 trains. It's a bit of a no brainer.

The speed difference over longer journeys favours the train but the price gap gets bigger against the train. Hamilton is a good example for me too.

I think it's just over £130 a month for the train but it would be £60 a month for the bus. The bus takes considerably more time but when money is tight which will be the case for a lot of people, cost trumps time every single time.
 

Christmas

Member
Joined
10 Mar 2018
Messages
368
Passengers in the SPT area may be as well with a Zonecard for maximum flexibility. The slower bus home might be more attractive than a train rammed with drunks at the weekend.
 

GALLANTON

Member
Joined
18 May 2021
Messages
246
Location
Scotland
Passengers in the SPT area may be as well with a Zonecard for maximum flexibility. The slower bus home might be more attractive than a train rammed with drunks at the weekend.

The ZoneCard is far too outdated now and really needs a proper re-vamp. I doubt SPT will do anything about it though any time soon.
 

tbtc

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Dec 2008
Messages
17,882
Location
Reston City Centre
I appreciate the need for some cuts, I appreciate that we are in a tough climate, but these seem to be very lopsided.

For example, Kirkcaldy goes down from

  • Two "fast" Edinburgh services per hour
  • Two Edinburgh "stoppers" per hour
  • Direct trains to Perth/ Inverness etc

...to...

  • Two Edinburgh "stoppers" per hour

Falkirk goes from:

  • Eight Edinburgh trains per hour
  • Six Glasgow trains per hour

...to...

  • Four Edinburgh trains per hour
  • Three Glasgow trains per hour (with five intermediate stops on all Waverley - Falkirk High - Queen Street services, rather than half of the services being "fast" each side of Falkirk)

...Bathgate/ Tweedbank also etc lose half their services but at the same time Stirling sees an increase in services to Edinburgh/ Dundee/ Inverness... Aberdeen seems to retain everything that it had (as does East Lothian/ Inverness)...

...I accept that it's hard to make minor reductions to some services (e.g.when everything is based around hourly/ half hourly clock face patterns, it's hard to reduce services to every twenty or forty five minutes, but it feels like the axe is hitting some places pretty harshly whilst others are unscathed - Kirkcaldy especially

Also, after taking years to bring the HSTs into squadron service, the service cuts seem to have been a great time to have them run everything on the "Inter7City" routes, but instead the Turbostars seem to be making a resurgence on long distance routes!

It's easier for the Scottish Government to ignore or bury the CMAL ferry nightmare as less of the population use the Clyde and Hebridean ferry network when compared to the railway network. If things went downhill, or there was the same absurd waste of public money, with Scotrail under public ownership as there is with CMAL/CalMac then there would be national uproar purely because of the higher number of people it would affect

Agreed - I don't think that people realise how badly the ferries have been handled
 

overthewater

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2012
Messages
8,153
I appreciate the need for some cuts, I appreciate that we are in a tough climate, but these seem to be very lopsided.

For example, Kirkcaldy goes down from

  • Two "fast" Edinburgh services per hour
  • Two Edinburgh "stoppers" per hour
  • Direct trains to Perth/ Inverness etc

...to...

  • Two Edinburgh "stoppers" per hour

Falkirk goes from:

  • Eight Edinburgh trains per hour
  • Six Glasgow trains per hour

...to...

  • Four Edinburgh trains per hour
  • Three Glasgow trains per hour (with five intermediate stops on all Waverley - Falkirk High - Queen Street services, rather than half of the services being "fast" each side of Falkirk)

...Bathgate/ Tweedbank also etc lose half their services but at the same time Stirling sees an increase in services to Edinburgh/ Dundee/ Inverness... Aberdeen seems to retain everything that it had (as does East Lothian/ Inverness)...

...I accept that it's hard to make minor reductions to some services (e.g.when everything is based around hourly/ half hourly clock face patterns, it's hard to reduce services to every twenty or forty five minutes, but it feels like the axe is hitting some places pretty harshly whilst others are unscathed - Kirkcaldy especially

Also, after taking years to bring the HSTs into squadron service, the service cuts seem to have been a great time to have them run everything on the "Inter7City" routes, but instead the Turbostars seem to be making a resurgence on long distance routes!



Agreed - I don't think that people realise how badly the ferries have been handled

Looking at some of the changes, Citylink and Stagecoach could sweep in grab more coach passengers for themselves , if the train travel times are now roughly the same as the coach and your trying to save money it would make since to make the swap.
 

backontrack

Established Member
Joined
2 Feb 2014
Messages
6,383
Location
The UK
Kirkcaldy will at least keep its LNER and XC services, so Monday-Saturday there'll be a fast Edinburgh-Dundee/Aberdeen service most hours. (I'm clutching at straws here.) Some proper integration with those TOCs, and ScotRail can plug the gaps a little. The solution might be to route a couple of Edinburgh-Invernesses via Kirkcaldy after all.
 

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
19,153
Location
West of Andover
Kirkcaldy will at least keep its LNER and XC services, so Monday-Saturday there'll be a fast Edinburgh-Dundee/Aberdeen service most hours. (I'm clutching at straws here.) Some proper integration with those TOCs, and ScotRail can plug the gaps a little. The solution might be to route a couple of Edinburgh-Invernesses via Kirkcaldy after all.

Assuming XC go back to calling there, I believe it is one of the stations they are not calling at.
 

chiltern trev

Member
Joined
28 Mar 2011
Messages
385
Location
near Carlisle
Saw some comments on Twitter about this. The view there was that it hadn’t been proof read & there’s a typo in the Robroyston and Stepps entries. Bit of a kick in the teeth if you bought a new house near either station to commute to Edinburgh and the direct service has now evaporated. It took years to grow some of the traffic on A2B, looks like this route will never get the chance. I guess for those people it’ll be a drive up the M80 to Croy now.

Also this typo, 3rd bullet on th Dumfries service pdf file

"The discontinuation of through services between Dumfries and Newcastle.The importance of reduced journey times between Aberdeen and the Central Belt by ScotRail. We are proposing that the May 2022 timetable will continue to provide one train per hour in most hours between both Glasgow and "

With incomplete sentence. A document cut and paste not fully read through.
 
Last edited:

Bikeman78

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2018
Messages
4,493
Also, after taking years to bring the HSTs into squadron service, the service cuts seem to have been a great time to have them run everything on the "Inter7City" routes, but instead the Turbostars seem to be making a resurgence on long distance routes!
In a sensible world, all the long distance trains would be HST and spare 158s or 170s would cascade to other TOCs to help with the DMU shortage.
 

daodao

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2016
Messages
2,904
Location
Dunham/Bowdon
I would adopt the attitude that unless it explicitly says you can't then by all means do respond. I don't see anything that says only those resident in Scotland.
Thank you for your reply. Having looked at the response form, unfortunately it does not seem possible to enter any specific comments, e.g. how downgrading and slowing up through services from Edinburgh to Perth/Inverness will also affect travellers from England, who naturally change at Edinburgh/Haymarket for these destinations.
For Edinburgh-Inverness or even Edinburgh-Perth journeys it does seem a retrograde step, but then for Edinburgh-Stirling which is apparently the main traffic flow of these three destinations it's an improvement - so swings and roundabouts really.

The decision to also slow the Edinburgh-Perth local service by running via Dunfermline does make the whole Edinburgh-Perth issue more acute, now neither route is anything even remotely fast.

I presume the re-routing of the Perth locals is a merger with a Fife Circle train and thus allowing the cut of one train service overall by merging the two?
The proposed timetable also appears to have removed semi-fast services from Edinburgh to most Fife destinations (including Kirkcaldy) apart from a few calls at Leuchars, leaving just stopping services.
 

Blindtraveler

Established Member
Joined
28 Feb 2011
Messages
9,600
Location
Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
I've not read every comment and don't plan too but for those who say that a170 in any form of whatver length is even vaguely suitable for a journey from the highlands to Edinburgh let me tell you as someone who has used over the years in the hope that by patronage would get something better they are absolutely not. I believe some time ago now a poster on here described a ride on a 170 as the equivalent of a hamster pushing a filing cabinet. Now imagine trying to push that filing cabinet up Slocht, loaded with details of all the bonus is paid and money wasted in the Scottish transport industry across all modes for the last 15 or 20-years. That's quite a heavyweight filing cabinet.

At every station half the carriage side disappears and the Scottish winter gets in.
These are inter regional express units better designed for pelting along main lines at 100 mph rather than climbing enormous hills and transporting passengers with all their bikes and luggage to and from the Highlands. That's another thing, totally inappropriate in terms of luggage capacity and regardless of what seating layout is in them not the most comfortable for passengers. Anyone who says there adequate is just wrong and it's not down to personal opinion only you ask a lot of members of train crew who been working these crapulous cavalcades 4 yearfor and they will say the exact same thing.
Just before the pandemic CityLink and Megabus started to upgrade vehicles on both the Aberdeen and Inverness long-distance services and the new standard on this route is going to be double decker coaches. Some of these are fresh out the factory and others are refurbished cascades from elsewhere but it's certainly going to be in more capacity and a better journey experience. It wouldn't be difficult for them or indeed any other enterprising coach operator who fancied her bang at it to obtain more vehicles and and effectively run the railway off the rails by providing a better quality journey experience with lower prices and in the case of the Highlands faster journey times. ScotRail needs to up it's game or passenger numbers will continue to fall off as anyone who has written the 10:45 from Inverness recently will be able to testify demand at the moment is pretty strong and and the best they seem to be able to do is the aforementioned 3 coach 170
 

XAM2175

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2016
Messages
3,469
Location
Glasgow
Thank you for your reply. Having looked at the response form, unfortunately it does not seem possible to enter any specific comments, e.g. how downgrading and slowing up through services from Edinburgh to Perth/Inverness will also affect travellers from England, who naturally change at Edinburgh/Haymarket for these destinations.
You could consider writing to the Minister for Transport.
 

snookertam

Member
Joined
22 Sep 2018
Messages
774
Posted in the other thread, but might be useful here. Perhaps the reason the West of Scotland timetables have been designed is so they can reintroduce the withdrawn services with minimal fuss given that they’ll easily slot back in. Maybe being very optimistic there but worth considering - if these were intended as long term changes you’d have thought more effort would have went into them.

The changes in Central Scotland seem more a bit more reasonable though, and give the impression they’ll be permanent. I’d be more concerned about their plans for Fife though. That’s a mess that needs sorted out. They’d as well not bothering with that Edinburgh to Perth service and as others have stated, the offering at Kirkcaldy needs to be far better.
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
10,594
The ZoneCard is far too outdated now and really needs a proper re-vamp. I doubt SPT will do anything about it though any time soon.
Agree. Should be a combined day ticket for bus and train in Glasgow. There is its called the daytripper but is more costly and covers a larger area.
 

option

Member
Joined
1 Aug 2017
Messages
636
There’s no suggestion in any of this about right-sizing trains, e.g. running 3 vs 6 off peak. BR discovered 30 odd years ago that shorter, more frequent, trains can drive demand, ScotRail seem to have decided that rather than sort their staffing problems they’re going to run fewer, longer, trains, but bleat about empty seat miles.

How do you do that though?

If travel becomes more spread out, & more leisure focused, then you need more of the staff at weekends.

Recruit more drivers etc? Fine, but how do you prevent the unions from kicking off over weekend working at normal pay levels?


---

A suggestion for those in the Aberdeen area;

get organised & push for investment, particularly in electrification. Highlight that electrification of local services will help reduce costs, & could attract additional passengers, which means more ticket sales.
 

overthewater

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2012
Messages
8,153
How does Scotrail know what the demand is going to be like in 6 months time? What if the demand increase even slightly? Will they be able to make improvements? I get the feeling some permanent cuts have finally been push thought.
 

alangla

Member
Joined
11 Apr 2018
Messages
1,178
Location
Glasgow
How do you do that though?

If travel becomes more spread out, & more leisure focused, then you need more of the staff at weekends.

Recruit more drivers etc? Fine, but how do you prevent the unions from kicking off over weekend working at normal pay levels?

In terms of the current mess? New contracts with Sunday inside the working week for new staff, then offer it to existing staff. They could also do something similar to what the supermarkets do & offer things like Saturday, Sunday and 1 weekday contracts for things like TEs and maybe even guards.

In the long run, it would mean more staff on the payroll, but would stop the nonsense we've got just now where we've had 6 months of no Sunday service, even on driver only lines like the Argyle line. AIUI, in previous disputes, things like the North Electric ran as normal as the strikes were on weekdays and named individuals were rostered for each service. Said individuals were holding up a banner outside Queen Street, but the train still ran as they were rostered. That can't happen this time because Sundays are overtime and they can't be rostered for it.

The question is really, are Abellio and the government willing to play hardball with the unions? I'd suggest Abellio don't care & just want to get the keys handed back and out. The government after the whole E&G crewing dispute, have shown the RMT that basically they'll do whatever they want and the RMT are now exploiting that.
There's a whole variety of "hardball" options available, from extending driver only operation to fire & rehire of staff (let's be honest, there isn't demand for large numbers of drivers or guards in most of Scotland, so fire & rehire would result in a high percentage of staff coming back, at least in the short term). I'm under no illusions about the union reaction to any of these sorts of measures - probably an indefinite all-out strike.
Either way, the nettle is going to have to be grasped at some point, whether that's by paying extra in the next set of pay negotiations to get Sundays as a normal day, or by some of the more brutal actions above. I know that it definitely is not going to be pretty.
 

kez19

Established Member
Joined
15 May 2020
Messages
2,038
Location
Dundee
How do you do that though?

If travel becomes more spread out, & more leisure focused, then you need more of the staff at weekends.

Recruit more drivers etc? Fine, but how do you prevent the unions from kicking off over weekend working at normal pay levels?


---

A suggestion for those in the Aberdeen area;

get organised & push for investment, particularly in electrification. Highlight that electrification of local services will help reduce costs, & could attract additional passengers, which means more ticket sales.

Regarding electrifying the line, I queried this maybe about 6 years ago, I spoke to a Scotrail conductor about us (well Dundee onwards) being electrified and getting the new trains (going now between Edinburgh and Glasgow) was told at the time there was no interest in electrification for the area and we had to made for with diesel trains on that point at the time proved to me that there was no interest in electrifying the North East of Scotland up.

Edit: time of conversation was on an electric train going the longer stops to Ayr
 

chiltern trev

Member
Joined
28 Mar 2011
Messages
385
Location
near Carlisle
No Carlisle but you can have Lockerbie.

Having seen the comments about actually filling in the form, I thought I would look at my local ScotRail service, Carlisle to Dumfries.

So it asks for the journey start and end stations. You can select Dumfries but there is no Carlisle. Probably not a surprise as Carlisle is not in Scotland and not a ScotRail managed station. But the ScotRail service is Carlisle - Dumfries - Glasgow and ScotRail is the sole passenger TOC on the route.

You can, however, select Lockerbie which is a ScotRail managed station but no ScotRail services call or pass through, these being Avanti and TPE and the WCML not being in the timetable consultation scope.

The service Carlisle - Dumfries - Glasgow does look reasonable - hourly Carlisle <> Dumfries at peak times and 2 hourly to Glasgow. The 2 hourly to Glasgow would appear to be an improvement as it provides a regular interval with more trains overall. It does say no through service beyond Carlisle to Newcastle but I thought these ceased a few years ago as part of the new Northern Trains franchise.
 

alangla

Member
Joined
11 Apr 2018
Messages
1,178
Location
Glasgow
The service Carlisle - Dumfries - Glasgow does look reasonable - hourly Carlisle <> Dumfries at peak times and 2 hourly to Glasgow. The 2 hourly to Glasgow would appear to be an improvement as it provides a regular interval with more trains overall. It does say no through service beyond Carlisle to Newcastle but I thought these ceased a few years ago as part of the new Northern Trains franchise.
There's some currently advertised as doing the through journey eastbound, but not westbound. If you look at RealTimeTrains, there's still Scotrail 156s operating on the Tyne Valley line, but they terminate at Carlisle westbound, then continue to Dumfries/Glasgow under a different headcode. It's a weird setup.

Also, Northern 156s still do some of the early Carlisle - Dumfries & return runs.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,429
Location
Yorkshire
Just a gentle reminder that any suggestions for service provision changes, other than those proposed, should be made in the appropriate forum section please :) This thread is exclusively for discussing the proposed service reductions as part of the consultation. Many thanks :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top