Class 345 progress

[Peter Sarf]

Something occurred to me regarding reports of struggles to run a fairly frequent service in the central crossrail tunnel. Perhaps the recently extended units are getting their first outing in the central core and that this could affect reliability. Were else would recently extended units be tested ?.

I spent a little while in the capital yesterday, and found:
Westside (all 9-car): 345031, 345033, 345034, 345043, 345047, 345051, 345055, 345062, 345068 (I'm aware I missed one or two Reading units, but I had to get to Stratford for LU PSULish service into/from platform 11 via Carpenters Road North Junction)
Stabled near the west portal of the tunnel (assumed to be 9-car): 345028, 345045, 345046
Eastside: 345003 (7), 345006 (7), 345007 (7), 345009 (7), 345011 (7), 345012 (7), 345013 (7), 345014 (7), 345015 (7), 345016 (7), 345017 (7), 345022 (7), 345029 (9), 345038 (*), 345040 (9), 345044 (9), 345054 (9).
* I travelled on 038 from Stratford to Harold Wood, but I'm not sure whether this was a 7 or 9-car formation - if someone could confirm that would be really helpful, thanks.

I believe 345038 is still 7-car.

 

[hwl]

Something occurred to me regarding reports of struggles to run a fairly frequent service in the central crossrail tunnel. Perhaps the recently extended units are getting their first outing in the central core and that this could affect reliability. Were else would recently extended units be tested ?.

GWML but ite will take quiet a bit of extra mileage to find some issues.

 

[JonathanH]

Perhaps the recently extended units are getting their first outing in the central core and that this could affect reliability.

I don't think those have been out yet. They are mixing the 9-cars up a lot more now so that the majority of 9-car units are used for both GWML workings and in the tunnel.

 

[Roger B]

Something occurred to me regarding reports of struggles to run a fairly frequent service in the central crossrail tunnel. Perhaps the recently extended units are getting their first outing in the central core and that this could affect reliability. Were else would recently extended units be tested ?.

I believe 345038 is still 7-car.

Many thanks Peter

 

[InOban]

One of the recent videos linked from this or the Crossrail thread said that one of the current tasks wasn't to prove 12tph running in normal service, but to establish the ability of the system and its operators to recover from anything out of plan (can't remember the exact wording ). Isn't it likely that the irregular running observed on RTT is due to these tests?

 

[Horizon22]

Curious then, that there is a letter prefix for Paddington High Level in the XR doc, but not for Liverpool Street High Level.

Also interesting that TfL Rail has not been running as a 2xxx service on the West (except for a brief time while they were running 360 sets).

 

[JonathanH]

Also interesting that TfL Rail has not been running as a 2xxx service on the West (except for a brief time while they were running 360 sets).

Probably avoids them being put in platform 14 at Paddington by mistake.

Although they were 9xxx when it was all 7-car, I think the original plan was 9-car operation from the start.

 

[Horizon22]

Probably avoids them being put in platform 14 at Paddington by mistake.

Although they were 9xxx when it was all 7-car, I think the original plan was 9-car operation from the start.

EDIT - 26 August

Movements of 7-car units via the North London Line today reported elsewhere as 345064 moving east to Ilford and 345007 going west to Old Oak Common.

That’s a good point although I know they’ve tried to throw them into P14 before which of course only just holds an 8-car!

 

[JonathanH]

Movements of 7-car units via the North London Line today reported elsewhere as 345064 moving east to Ilford and 345007 going west to Old Oak Common.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Movements of 7-car units via the North London Line today reported elsewhere as 345064 moving east to Ilford and 345007 going west to Old Oak Common.

Oh no. I did not know 345064 was 7 car. How long has it been shortened ?. Are they still making some shorter.

 

[hwl]

Oh no. I did not know 345064 was 7 car. How long has it been shortened ?.

From memory at least 18months.

Are they still making some shorter.

No.

 

[Peter Sarf]

From memory at least 18months.


No.

Thanks. Worrying I have overlooked a runt.

 

[JonathanH]

Oh no. I did not know 345064 was 7 car. How long has it been shortened ?. Are they still making some shorter.

345064 was
* reduced to 7-car in November 2019 for the introduction of TfL Rail services to Reading in December 2019
* restored to 9-car length during April 2020 and operated as such until the withdrawal of 9-car services in June 2020.
* 7-car since late June 2020 to create enough units for the west side workings
* moved to the east side in February 2021 as a 7-car unit on the restoration of full 9-car operation from Paddington in December 2020.

It was reported not to have worked on the east side during its first period as a 7-car unit.

There would be no reason to make any further units shorter.

 

[Peter Sarf]

345064 was
* reduced to 7-car in November 2019 for the introduction of TfL Rail services to Reading in December 2019
* restored to 9-car length during April 2020 and operated as such until the withdrawal of 9-car services in June 2020.
* 7-car since late June 2020 to create enough units for the west side workings
* moved to the east side in February 2021 as a 7-car unit on the restoration of full 9-car operation from Paddington in December 2020.

It was reported not to have worked on the east side during its first period as a 7-car unit.

There would be no reason to make any further units shorter.

Thankyou @JonathanH. I had no idea that it had such a varied formation history !.

 

[alanc]

Noted at Twyford this afternoon:-
345034/054/062/043/004 on Reading off-peaks
345033 on 5G52/53
345028 on 5G57/58
345008 on 1430 OOC to Reading, 9 car, RTT a bit confused by this one...
Regards
Alan

 

[kevin_roche]

Mark Wild's latest report to the London Assembly Transport Committee is now published on the TfL website.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-assembly-update-august-2021-redacted.pdf

It has an interesting item on the plan for 9-car rollout on the east side.

Following the introduction of nine-car full-length Class 345 trains on the Liverpool Street to Shenfield
route in May, six are now in operation alongside seven-car Reduced Length Units (RLU) and Class
315 ‘legacy’ trains. Replacement of the remaining RLUs and the Class 315 trains will commence in
November.

 

[fat_boy_pete]

Mark Wild's latest report to the London Assembly Transport Committee is now published on the TfL website.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-assembly-update-august-2021-redacted.pdf

It has an interesting item on the plan for 9-car rollout on the east side.

So 2 months later than previously stated. Presumably a risk adverse schedule in case of problems with the production level rollout of the FLU software.

 

[kevin_roche]

So 2 months later than previously stated. Presumably a risk adverse schedule in case of problems with the production level rollout of the FLU software.

Possibly. there is another paragraph about the software. the dates for that seem very fluid.

The ELR100 software is the last major configuration before revenue service and is pivotal to the
programme advancing through to the next phase of the programme, known as Trial Operations. Once
the software is ready to be commissioned a further blockade, planned for the autumn, will take place...

Hopefully, it won't be delayed. I guess the use of 9-car trains on the GEML has proved the current software will work for the route to Liverpool Street. I'm not sure why they are not just going ahead with that.

 

[fat_boy_pete]

Possibly. there is another paragraph about the software. the dates for that seem very fluid.



Hopefully, it won't be delayed. I guess the use of 9-car trains on the GEML has proved the current software will work for the route to Liverpool Street. I'm not sure why they are not just going ahead with that.

Known unknowns!

 

[Gulf1159]

Possibly. there is another paragraph about the software. the dates for that seem very fluid.



Hopefully, it won't be delayed. I guess the use of 9-car trains on the GEML has proved the current software will work for the route to Liverpool Street. I'm not sure why they are not just going ahead with that.

ELR100 is due to be rolled out the last two weeks in October

 

[306024]

Hopefully, it won't be delayed. I guess the use of 9-car trains on the GEML has proved the current software will work for the route to Liverpool Street. I'm not sure why they are not just going ahead with that.

There is another clue: “a further blockade, planned for the autumn”. 9 cars units can only be maintained at Old Oak so there is a limit to how many can be cycled for maintenance during a blockade

 

[kevin_roche]

There is another clue: “a further blockade, planned for the autumn”. 9 cars units can only be maintained at Old Oak so there is a limit to how many can be cycled for maintenance during a blockade

That makes sense. Thank you for pointing it out.

 

[hwl]

That makes sense. Thank you for pointing it out.

There is also limited space at OOC so getting the existing surplus 7 cars all converted to 9 car and tested (including clocking up a reasonable mileage to find potential issues) in sufficient time before the October blockade is worth while. e.g. being able to do 9car swaps for maintenance though the core just before the blockade would be useful to (e.g. reposition units expect to require maintenance to the west side).

And also be ready for quicker roll out post October blockade.

 

[typetwos]

Ah, thanks for the confirmation - clearly 345038 remains a 7-car. The move at 0900 was the locomotive arrival.

So 345005 and 345008 both at Old Oak currently?

37800 taking 345008 on a trip on 5Q50 10:26 OLDOKDTXR to ILFORDEMD 02/09/21

 

[JonathanH]

37800 taking 345008 on a trip on 5Q50 10:26 OLDOKDTXR to ILFORDEMD 02/09/21

It seems that it should have happened yesterday but was cancelled despite the locomotive working empty to Old Oak Depot.

What seems interesting is that the post 4425 above indicates 345008 to have been out testing west side on Tuesday as a 9-car unit so not obvious why it would be going east with a locomotive.

 

[hwl]

It seems that it should have happened yesterday but was cancelled despite the locomotive working empty to Old Oak Depot.

What seems interesting is that the post 4425 above indicates 345008 to have been out testing west side on Tuesday as a 9-car unit so not obvious why it would be going east with a locomotive.

Have the other 9car tunnel transfers focused on Monday-Wednesday as Thursday onwards can be a bit irregular in terms of other testing?
No testing today apparently and just 2 pairs of ECS moves were planned today.

 

[Horizon22]

It seems that it should have happened yesterday but was cancelled despite the locomotive working empty to Old Oak Depot.

What seems interesting is that the post 4425 above indicates 345008 to have been out testing west side on Tuesday as a 9-car unit so not obvious why it would be going east with a locomotive.

Yesterday there was some issue with 5Q50 and a spurious SPAD alarm so perhaps that move was cancelled then due to the investigation.

 

[rd749249]

Something to look out for on Sunday. Trial running sees testing of the west transitions as far as West Ealing. Between 1000-1300 there will be a timetabled service run to Ealing Broadway, when trains will then run to the loop at West Ealing and reverse. There will also be all day running to/from OOC.

 

[JonathanH]

37800 taking 345008 on a trip on 5Q50 10:26 OLDOKDTXR to ILFORDEMD 02/09/21

I suspect this might have actually been 345007 returning to Ilford yesterday since 345008 appears to have been reported at Old Oak Depot later in the day. There doesn't appear to have been a movement in the other direction.


[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I08' moving between signal berths C412, 0142 and C313 at Old Oak Depot around 1745 on 2 September]

 

[Roger B]

I suspect this might have actually been 345007 returning to Ilford yesterday since 345008 appears to have been reported at Old Oak Depot later in the day. There doesn't appear to have been a movement in the other direction.

View attachment 102105
[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I08' moving between signal berths C412, 0142 and C313 at Old Oak Depot around 1745 on 2 September]

Thanks Jonathan. Following on from the discussion above re 345008, are you able to confirm whether 345008 is now a 9-car or not, and if a 9-car when it is expected to enter service (or perhaps that's rather a long shot!). Many thanks