• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

LNER compulsory reservations - what happens if you don’t have one?

Status
Not open for further replies.

35B

Established Member
Joined
19 Dec 2011
Messages
2,295
An interesting anomaly in the LNER system. Twice now, I've booked an AP ticket for the 07:18 from Grantham, choosing my seat based on a 10 car Azuma formation, and then had a mail telling me that there are no reservations, so I can book for free on another train. Twice now, that's allowed me to get the 06:58 despite it being £20 or more dearer at the time I booked.

Oh dear, what a shame.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

trainophile

Established Member
Joined
28 Oct 2010
Messages
6,186
Location
Wherever I lay my hat
Interesting situation today which made me wonder what the point of compulsory seat reservations is.

I boarded the 1512 southbound Azuma at Berwick-Upon-Tweed, and found someone sitting in my seat. I was a bit surprised (although happy to sit elsewhere), and on mentioning it to the occupant he said “are you 15?” (the window seat). I said yes, and he said he was 16, i.e. they had allocated us adjacent seats even though we made totally separate bookings.

So it obviously isn’t for social distancing!
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
3,725
Interesting situation today which made me wonder what the point of compulsory seat reservations is.

I boarded the 1512 southbound Azuma at Berwick-Upon-Tweed, and found someone sitting in my seat. I was a bit surprised (although happy to sit elsewhere), and on mentioning it to the occupant he said “are you 15?” (the window seat). I said yes, and he said he was 16, i.e. they had allocated us adjacent seats even though we made totally separate bookings.

So it obviously isn’t for social distancing!
It was / is to prevent overbooking. I.e. selling lots of tickets for a particular train where many people have no hope of having a seat.
 

zero

Member
Joined
3 Apr 2011
Messages
955
How often would the trains be rammed during off peak/weekends though?
Before covid, frequently. All the LNER mainline trains I've taken this year have been quite full at off-peak times though they emptied out after Newark for Lincoln and after Leeds for Harrogate...
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
3,725
How often would the trains be rammed during off peak/weekends though? It does seem like a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
I was not attempting to justify; only to explain. In answer to your question, they were often rammed in Sundays.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
14,882
Interesting situation today which made me wonder what the point of compulsory seat reservations is.

I boarded the 1512 southbound Azuma at Berwick-Upon-Tweed, and found someone sitting in my seat. I was a bit surprised (although happy to sit elsewhere), and on mentioning it to the occupant he said “are you 15?” (the window seat). I said yes, and he said he was 16, i.e. they had allocated us adjacent seats even though we made totally separate bookings.

So it obviously isn’t for social distancing!
That social distancing stuff has all finished.
 

Mainline421

Member
Joined
7 May 2013
Messages
483
Location
Aberystwyth
As have the compulsory reservations other than in the timetable data.
And yet CrossCountry have managed the impossible and corrected it on all of their services at least a week ago... I guess LNER must have been really busy with something else for past three weeks or something. ;)
 
Last edited:

trainophile

Established Member
Joined
28 Oct 2010
Messages
6,186
Location
Wherever I lay my hat
Well I had the choice of probably about 20 pairs of vacant seats plus a few tables all in that one coach, and ended up with a table to myself on the coast side, so I still can’t see why they allocated two adjacent seats to strangers.

However, on looking at a theatre booking page the other day, it wouldn’t let me select the seat I wanted (end of a row for easy access and egress) as it would leave an ‘orphan’ seat, so perhaps that’s their logic.
 

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
6,645
Location
Northern England
Leisure travel is at higher levels than pre COVID so expect to be sitting next to someone
Indeed, but...

no plans to remove the flag from the timetable data.
why not? All it's doing now the actual policy is no longer in effect is making it a pain to buy an LNER ticket. Anyone would think LNER didn't want custom...:s
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,554
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Well I had the choice of probably about 20 pairs of vacant seats plus a few tables all in that one coach, and ended up with a table to myself on the coast side, so I still can’t see why they allocated two adjacent seats to strangers.

However, on looking at a theatre booking page the other day, it wouldn’t let me select the seat I wanted (end of a row for easy access and egress) as it would leave an ‘orphan’ seat, so perhaps that’s their logic.

Theatres generally don't allow that because an orphan seat can be hard to sell.
 

D6130

Established Member
Joined
12 Jan 2021
Messages
5,652
Location
West Yorkshire/Tuscany
On Friday 23rd July, my wife and I travelled from Leuchars to Kirkcaldy on train 1E15, 09 52 Aberdeen - Kings Cross (a nine car Azuma) without seat reservations. Despite both the platform indicators and the on board PIS advising us that seat reservations were compulsory, we found two adjacent free seats in coach 'C' and there was no ticket check on that short section of the journey. Overall, though, the train looked pretty full.
 

WesternLancer

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
6,996
Has this all gone by the board now to all intents and purposes?

Yesterday was my 1st LNER journey since before March 2020 (I've been put off using them by all the pre journey seat reservation mantra) - I made a reservation as it happened for the trip concerned (class 91 northbound journey) - this was easy enough to do as train was clearly not booked up, tho I may still at last minute have had to use another train if I had missed my fairly tight connection in London. Tho I could have reserved 2 seats on different trains using their on line system as an 'insurance' against missing my connection - which of course does not then help other people trying to make one if it appears all booked up.

No barrier check at Kings Cross (barriers switched out) - and no ticket check on board my train either, at least for the hour I was on the train. Though staff did walk up and down the train.

Coach C pretty empty - so I guess most people in my coach were sitting in their reserved seats. But chap opposite me on my table moved soon after we left Kings Cross to the unoccupied set of 4 table seats opposite - which I guess were either unreserved or no shows

Seat reservation screens were not working in the mk4 set anyway.

I saw that all the printed stuff / signage about seat reservations now seemed to be 'LNER strongly recommends you reserve a seat'.

Train was comfortably busy, but not crowded, in standard class. Looked pretty empty in first however, suggesting cheaper tickets could have been released to fill it (I needed a flexible ticket so that was not an option for me, and I decided the £35 upgrade fee was not worth the cost for the journey duration I was undertaking).
 

skyhigh

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
5,220
Has this all gone by the board now to all intents and purposes?

Yesterday was my 1st LNER journey since before March 2020 (I've been put off using them by all the pre journey seat reservation mantra) - I made a reservation as it happened for the trip concerned (class 91 northbound journey) - this was easy enough to do as train was clearly not booked up, tho I may still at last minute have had to use another train if I had missed my fairly tight connection in London. Tho I could have reserved 2 seats on different trains using their on line system as an 'insurance' against missing my connection - which of course does not then help other people trying to make one if it appears all booked up.

No barrier check at Kings Cross (barriers switched out) - and no ticket check on board my train either, at least for the hour I was on the train. Though staff did walk up and down the train.

Coach C pretty empty - so I guess most people in my coach were sitting in their reserved seats. But chap opposite me on my table moved soon after we left Kings Cross to the unoccupied set of 4 table seats opposite - which I guess were either unreserved or no shows

Seat reservation screens were not working in the mk4 set anyway.

I saw that all the printed stuff / signage about seat reservations now seemed to be 'LNER strongly recommends you reserve a seat'.

Train was comfortably busy, but not crowded, in standard class. Looked pretty empty in first however, suggesting cheaper tickets could have been released to fill it (I needed a flexible ticket so that was not an option for me, and I decided the £35 upgrade fee was not worth the cost for the journey duration I was undertaking).
Compulsory reservations are long gone on LNER - it's just a recommendation now (and in my experience it was very rarely enforced when it was a requirement)
 

WesternLancer

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
6,996
Compulsory reservations are long gone on LNER - it's just a recommendation now (and in my experience it was very rarely enforced when it was a requirement)
Thanks that is good to hear - has the LNER Chief exec rowed back somewhat on his many public statements that they should / he wanted to go over to all compulsory reservations?
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
14,882
Thanks that is good to hear - has the LNER Chief exec rowed back somewhat on his many public statements that they should / he wanted to go over to all compulsory reservations?
Why does anyone need to "row back" on wanting things to be done differently?
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
Thanks that is good to hear - has the LNER Chief exec rowed back somewhat on his many public statements that they should / he wanted to go over to all compulsory reservations?

Sounds like what we have now is a pretty pragmatic compromise; trains still marked as Compulsory Reservations in the timetable mean that they will show trains as sold out when no more reservable seats are available (so people are discouraged from turning up for already busy trains), but there's nothing to stop you turning up with a walk-up ticket if you really want to.

Why does anyone need to "row back" on wanting things to be done differently?

As I say above, I think we've moved to a position that helps manage loadings better ("you've sold too many tickets!" every Maundy Thursday), but still does not inhibit "walk up" travel. So we have very much rowed forward, and then a tiny bit back.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,232
Location
Bolton
Sounds like what we have now is a pretty pragmatic compromise; trains still marked as Compulsory Reservations in the timetable mean that they will show trains as sold out when no more reservable seats are available (so people are discouraged from turning up for already busy trains), but there's nothing to stop you turning up with a walk-up ticket if you really want to.
That will reduce revenue in the long run though by turning people away when there will be capacity on the train in the form of no-shows and the unreserved space. Fundamentally I don't think that GBR will be able to tolerate that. Other compulsory reservation operators such as Eurostar overbook if the train is full which mitigates this.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
14,882
That will reduce revenue in the long run though by turning people away when there will be capacity on the train in the form of no-shows and the unreserved space. Fundamentally I don't think that GBR will be able to tolerate that. Other compulsory reservation operators such as Eurostar overbook if the train is full which mitigates this.
Eurostar, with their check in processes, are a poor comparison as this can't be done in our domestic market. French TGV is a better example where an additional number of reservations are issued for standing places. However, revenue can be managed especially if the constraints of the current regulate fares system are removed and in that case I suspect customers are likely to be happier paying slightly more for a more comfortable experience.
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
11,954
Location
UK
As I say above, I think we've moved to a position that helps manage loadings better ("you've sold too many tickets!" every Maundy Thursday), but still does not inhibit "walk up" travel. So we have very much rowed forward, and then a tiny bit back.
Marking all trains as reservation compulsory data substantially inhibits walk-up travel on busy trains.

Whilst a minority of people might know they can just select another service and still travel on the "sold out" train, Joe Smith would quite reasonably think that "sold out" (if such a train even appears in their search) means "you're not allowed to get on".

It is also of little comfort when all services on a given day (or around a given time) are sold out, meaning booking sites and apps say "no trains available". The LNER operated ticket machines and offices at the major stations (York, Newcastle, Edinburgh, Kings Cross) are unlikely to be able to sell tickets either.

If LNER truly want to drop compulsory reservations, they need to make the timetable data match what their new policy says.
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
That will reduce revenue in the long run though by turning people away when there will be capacity on the train in the form of no-shows and the unreserved space. Fundamentally I don't think that GBR will be able to tolerate that. Other compulsory reservation operators such as Eurostar overbook if the train is full which mitigates this.

Or revenue increases because some people feel more confident travelling if they know they are being directed to less busy trains before leaving for the station.



Marking all trains as reservation compulsory data substantially inhibits walk-up travel on busy trains.

Although most of LNER's long distance market probably isn't "walk up" anyway - you'll check train times and the fare in advance of travelling in some form or another.

And if you're emailing a shorter journey you'll just buy the ticket at the machine and get on, provided the machines sell it and make clear all seat reservations are sold.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top