• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Northern Line Battersea Extension - Opened September 20 2021

Status
Not open for further replies.

AlbertBeale

Established Member
Joined
16 Jun 2019
Messages
2,695
Location
London
However, high-value developments seem to have a nasty habit of being treated like collectible baseball cards by investors who are happy to keep them empty, rather than take the tax liability of rental profits.

Indeed - I don't know of evidence that this sort of high-end development does much for actual housing need in London. It seems that patterns of ownership (including by absentee foreign investors), the lack of security of private rental in this country, together with the existence of second (third/etc) homes, and semi-legal holiday lets, etc, add up to as much of a problem as any lack of housing. If there were the political will to tackle these problems, then it would be a more efficient route out of much of the "housing crisis" than more building from scratch in the already over-developed and over-built-on inner city.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

absolutelymilk

Established Member
Joined
18 Jul 2015
Messages
1,239
Indeed - I don't know of evidence that this sort of high-end development does much for actual housing need in London. It seems that patterns of ownership (including by absentee foreign investors), the lack of security of private rental in this country, together with the existence of second (third/etc) homes, and semi-legal holiday lets, etc, add up to as much of a problem as any lack of housing. If there were the political will to tackle these problems, then it would be a more efficient route out of much of the "housing crisis" than more building from scratch in the already over-developed and over-built-on inner city.
This is a commonly-held view, but isn't matched by the data. There are just 30,000 long-term empty homes in London (out of about 3.6 million in total, i.e. under 1%).
https://assets.publishing.service.g...ploads/attachment_data/file/972552/LT_615.ods

Back on topic, has anyone seen revised expected usage figures for the extension? I saw some which suggested about 12,000 extra riders in the 8am-9am peak, but suspect these were pre-Covid estimates.
 

Djgr

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
1,641
This is a commonly-held view, but isn't matched by the data. There are just 30,000 long-term empty homes in London (out of about 3.6 million in total, i.e. under 1%).
https://assets.publishing.service.g...ploads/attachment_data/file/972552/LT_615.ods

Back on topic, has anyone seen revised expected usage figures for the extension? I saw some which suggested about 12,000 extra riders in the 8am-9am peak, but suspect these were pre-Covid estimates.
It's probably more an issue of second homes rather than empty homes.

Interesting article in the Telegraph today suggesting that the planned residential developments that "justified" this transport expenditure are turning into a bit of a car-crash.
 
Last edited:

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
London needs every house it can get. Supply is limited enough as it is. Will the proposed split of the Northern Line make a difference to the operational ease? I know Camden Town is, to put it mildly, a bit of a problem so maybe instead of restricting the development density it should have been a condition of development that Camden Town reached a certain stage first. But that would have requires extraordinarily joined-up thinking at City Hall.

I'd say that Battersea is exactly what, in principle, London needs. Lots of dense housing connected directly to the tube and high capacity public transport.

i'd have thought with the end-game of the Northern line, eventually, being totally split, that a southern extension fits in with this.

Presumably demand to Battersea will be slow burn for a few years anyway (as will transport demand generally with recovery from Covid) so buys some time to sort Camden Town out.
 

londonbridge

Established Member
Joined
30 Jun 2010
Messages
1,448
Thought….how does Jay Foreman rewrite his “every tube station” song to include the two new stations??
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
Except according to that there are no longer through trains from Charing Cross to Morden at peak times.

Does the tube map have to show everything? It doesn't show (for example) the early/late evening journeys between Watford and Rickmansworth.
 

MikeWh

Established Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
15 Jun 2010
Messages
7,865
Location
Crayford
Does the tube map have to show everything? It doesn't show (for example) the early/late evening journeys between Watford and Rickmansworth.
There are only 3 a day of those and they are all at silly o'clock. The new Northern line car line diagrams still show the peak service.
 

willgreen

Member
Joined
11 Jan 2020
Messages
612
Location
Leeds
Except according to that there are no longer through trains from Charing Cross to Morden at peak times.
If you're a commuter you'll quickly work out that there are still peak trains; if you're not a commuter you're probably a tourist who a) won't be travelling at peak time and b) won't be massively fussed about changing trains. There are issues with the mapping but I don't think this is the biggest one.
 

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
20,382
Location
0035
There are only 3 a day of those and they are all at silly o'clock. The new Northern line car line diagrams still show the peak service.
What’s unhelpful is that it seems many of the new station diagrams installed / updated with vinyl show that service in solid black (ie. as a “full time” service), the line diagrams as you say use the film reel to denote a limited service, and then the Tube map doesn’t show the service as existing at all!
 

74A

Member
Joined
27 Aug 2015
Messages
620
Does anyone know what time the first train departs Battersea Power Station ?
 

duncanp

Established Member
Joined
16 Aug 2012
Messages
4,856
I wonder what effect this extension will have on anyone who want to try and visit every tube station in a single day.

Currently it is 16 hours 20 minutes and 27 seconds, but having to visit a couple of extra stations could complicate matters.
 

steeevooo

Member
Joined
18 Jun 2020
Messages
23
Location
London
I wonder what effect this extension will have on anyone who want to try and visit every tube station in a single day.

Currently it is 16 hours 20 minutes and 27 seconds, but having to visit a couple of extra stations could complicate matters.

I think you will actually find that the record has been 15 hours, 45 minutes and 38 seconds since May 2015!
 

duncanp

Established Member
Joined
16 Aug 2012
Messages
4,856
I think you will actually find that the record has been 15 hours, 45 minutes and 38 seconds since May 2015!

I stand corrected, but when I put "tube challenge record" into Google it came up with the headline figure I quoted.

And there was I thinking that Google was accurate and up to date.

The new stations will certainly make it more difficult to improve on the current record.

Someone has done all of the New York subway in just over 21 hours, but that system does run 24 hours per day.
 
Last edited:

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
If you're a commuter you'll quickly work out that there are still peak trains; if you're not a commuter you're probably a tourist who a) won't be travelling at peak time and b) won't be massively fussed about changing trains. There are issues with the mapping but I don't think this is the biggest one.

Yes, the map is for unfamiliar users. The last thing you want is them hanging around looking for an infrequent through train that may be some time away...
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
What facility does Kennignton have to reverse northbound trains? I thought it was only a terminus for southbound trains.

Arrive in the northbound platform, de-train, reverse around the Kennington loop (in the "wrong" direction) to the southbound platform, depart Southbound back to BPS.

Necessary for the first few trains as it takes some time for the first southbound trains from Highgate etc to reach Battersea.
 

TRAX

Established Member
Joined
2 Dec 2015
Messages
1,648
Location
France
Arrive in the northbound platform, de-train, reverse around the Kennington loop (in the "wrong" direction) to the southbound platform, depart Southbound back to BPS.

Necessary for the first few trains as it takes some time for the first southbound trains from Highgate etc to reach Battersea.

I'm not sure the loop is bi-directional ?
 

74A

Member
Joined
27 Aug 2015
Messages
620
Arrive in the northbound platform, de-train, reverse around the Kennington loop (in the "wrong" direction) to the southbound platform, depart Southbound back to BPS.

Necessary for the first few trains as it takes some time for the first southbound trains from Highgate etc to reach Battersea.
Interesting. So if I have it right the driver will have to change ends twice?
 

Dstock7080

Established Member
Joined
17 Feb 2010
Messages
2,741
Location
West London
Interesting. So if I have it right the driver will have to change ends twice?
the trains will be "double-staffed"
trains will be double-staffed between Kennington platform 1 arrival and Kennington platform 2 arrival to support the operation of late night/early morning shuttle services on the Battersea Power Station branch
 

PTR 444

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2019
Messages
2,280
Location
Wimborne
the trains will be "double-staffed"
How does this work? Are there two drivers on board for the entire journey, or does the second driver board the train just for the reversal
move while the other driver alights and walks to the southbound platform to meet the same train before taking over again?
 

Dstock7080

Established Member
Joined
17 Feb 2010
Messages
2,741
Location
West London
How does this work? Are there two drivers on board for the entire journey, or does the second driver board the train just for the reversal
move while the other driver alights and walks to the southbound platform to meet the same train before taking over again?
what you describe is 'stepping=back', double-staffed is two drivers - one at each end.
 

zero

Member
Joined
3 Apr 2011
Messages
955
Is it still possible for passengers to travel around the Kennington loop and if yes, will that change on Monday?
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
Is it still possible for passengers to travel around the Kennington loop and if yes, will that change on Monday?

In theory, 3 in every 4 trains via Charing Cross will still terminate and go around the loop. And I suspect you don't want to add time actively tipping passengers out if it risks delaying through Battersea trains.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top