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Avanti West Coast: Standard Premium

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mmh

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Why does it have to be exactly the same? There are lots of good hot breakfasts available from airlines, it doesn’t need to be an identical offering to what Virgin had.


Begs the question “why only use it for a few hours of the fifteen hours the train is in service for every day?”.
Well, the rest of the day menu is decidedly feeble compared to some of the stuff done in the evenings on Pendolinos in the past!
 
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Grumpy Git

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Well, the rest of the day menu is decidedly feeble compared to some of the stuff done in the evenings on Pendolinos in the past!
Going around in circles here, but pre-Covid I've only ever been offered cheese and biscuits, with no hint of an apology that nothing hot is available.

Imagine boarding a flight in Club Class and being told that you're travelling too late to get any dinner.
 

RT4038

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But the point I am trying to make in my own experience, is that in the UK particularly there are too many people working in customer facing roles who have a terrible attitude.
Particularly in the railway industry, where you can find a shocking amount of arrogance towards customers. Many of the things I hear guards, RPIs and even catering team say to customers on a regular basis would never be tolerated in most other workplaces.


Standard premium, first class, whatever. Attitude is everything and neither will be satisfactory without the basic customer service that seems so hard to find these days.
I think this is a British cultural thing. We are not good at customer service in most situations. 'Lucky to get a train / bus / bank / retail goods / meal at all. And you want customer service too?' and 'ask me nicely and you might have a chance of getting it, (as opposed to service because you've paid for it)' is pretty prevalent everywhere. Where there is good customer service, a proportion of us will try to take unreasonable advantage and/or just be plain rude. We complain about it, but would we do any better? Answers only from those who have a fair amount of experience dealing with customers! We are who we are.
 

Grumpy Git

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I've managed my own business for 26 years, so if I don't 'sell', I go under.

My attitude is to treat people like you would like to be treated yourself and always be straight with people (I'm probably a marketing executives worst nightmare)?
 

jfollows

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I've managed my own business for 26 years, so if I don't 'sell', I go under.

My attitude is to treat people like you would like to be treated yourself and always be straight with people (I'm probably a marketing executives worst nightmare)?
I agree, and I add two mantras of my own which could both apply here:
1. Under-promise and over-deliver.
2. People understand that things go wrong, it's what you do to rectify the problem is what really matters.
Avanti dropped a huge clanger on the second point in their early days of operation when they had to cancel services on a weekend and told passengers they couldn't travel until Monday afternoon. With the meal service they have an opportunity to mess up on the first point, let's hope they don't.
 

Grumpy Git

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Avanti need to get the existing First service working properly before they introduce an intermediate class....................... whoops, too late!

It's like someone in management though SP was a good idea (which maybe it will be in time), but then Covid came along and they won't change their timetable for it's introduction. Reminds me of a certain lot who turn-up in Westminster now and again.
 

Falcon1200

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0643 Euston-Edinburgh via Birmingham today, on which I travelled from Wolverhampton to Edinburgh; 11-coach Pendolino, 2 complete coaches Standard Premium, therefore 1.5 coaches First. In SP I did not observe more than 5 or 6 passengers in each coach at any time, First fairly busy but seats still available. However cooked breakfasts were being served in First again, and the staff were extremely efficient, regularly offering food and drink, even well into the journey's final stages.
 

godfreycomplex

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First 16:55 Piccadilleh - Euston. Set up as described by Falcon1200, menu as described on ze website. Avocado tartine delicious and fresh. The house Prosecco has gone down very easy and we’re being very well looked after so life is gooooood
No dramas with sitting in Coach K, but then again I’ve never had any dramas with sitting in Coach K.
 

lewisdicks

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Is a Seatfrog upgrade to 1st still available on Avanti west coast?
Yes it is but from glasgow central to Euston the opening minimum bid is £35 whereas an onboard SP upgrade is £30, whereas on the ECML opening bids are around £8-10, ridiculous.
 

Wolfie

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0643 Euston-Edinburgh via Birmingham today, on which I travelled from Wolverhampton to Edinburgh; 11-coach Pendolino, 2 complete coaches Standard Premium, therefore 1.5 coaches First. In SP I did not observe more than 5 or 6 passengers in each coach at any time, First fairly busy but seats still available. However cooked breakfasts were being served in First again, and the staff were extremely efficient, regularly offering food and drink, even well into the journey's final stages.
Sounds good. They just need to do that consistently now.

Yes it is but from glasgow central to Euston the opening minimum bid is £35 whereas an onboard SP upgrade is £30, whereas on the ECML opening bids are around £8-10, ridiculous.
If you actually got it for £35 then the goodies sound well worth a fiver.
 

Bletchleyite

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Yes it is but from glasgow central to Euston the opening minimum bid is £35 whereas an onboard SP upgrade is £30, whereas on the ECML opening bids are around £8-10, ridiculous.

If they are going that cheap on the ECML this suggests LNER have their yield management very, very wrong. An uplift of £10 doesn't even cover the extra floor space taken up, let alone the goodies.
 

JamesT

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If they are going that cheap on the ECML this suggests LNER have their yield management very, very wrong. An uplift of £10 doesn't even cover the extra floor space taken up, let alone the goodies.
When I tried last month on a Kings Cross to Edinburgh trip, although the reserve was £12 I think the winning bid was £26.
 

Skymonster

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Yes it is but from glasgow central to Euston the opening minimum bid is £35 whereas an onboard SP upgrade is £30, whereas on the ECML opening bids are around £8-10, ridiculous.

So AWC is starting with an uplift of £5 over SP, whereas LNER is £8-£10 over standard. Both first offers are selling upgrades from distressed inventory. The lead-in price is potentially attractive and draws people in while in most cases auctions will end up closing at a somewhat greater price. AWC realistically has no choice but to start bids at more than the fee for the upgrade to SP in order to maintain the “value” of the SP offer.

If they are going that cheap on the ECML this suggests LNER have their yield management very, very wrong. An uplift of £10 doesn't even cover the extra floor space taken up, let alone the goodies.
To the contrary, it doesn‘t need to cover the extra floor space as these sales are based on distressed inventory that would otherwise go unsold (empty). The floor space and the staff are there anyway (sunk costs / overheads), so as long as the upgrades do not restrict availability of “normal” fare first class capacity, the upgrade uplift only has to cover the cost of the additional items (the “goodies’).

I suspect that LNER (and AWC) have a pretty good idea what the typical cost of first class catering per passenger is - again, just the cost of the items, not the cost of the floor space or staff time - and while a £8-10 (or even a £5) uplift may be cutting things rather fine I also suspect most upgrades will come in at more than the starting figure after bidding is done. A more typical £20-£30 uplift is almost certainly going to cover the incremental costs of the extra catering and thus (again as long as upgrades do not prevent true first class ticket holders from occupying a seat) contribute to the bottom line of the business.

So it seems to me that LNER has got it pretty right. All it then needs to do is ensure upgrade availability isn‘t so easy to come by that passengers with a propensity to buy first class tickets don’t downgrade their normal / initial purchase in the knowledge they will almost certainly get a cheap upgrade.
When I tried last month on a Kings Cross to Edinburgh trip, although the reserve was £12 I think the winning bid was £26.
As I said, I suspect most upgrades go for somewhat more than the starting price.
 

BluePenguin

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If I'd ever managed to get a bay of 4 on west coast I might agree with you. Instead I've always been crammed in with a bunch of frightful commoners who used some kind of ghastly app to upgrade to a seat next to me for considerably less than I paid. A smaller first class where I feel like I'm sharing with my sort of people is most certainly preferable to that.
Money does not buy you class…or does it? We live in a world where people now generally look for value for money over luxury. It is not clear whether your complaint is that first class should be intentionally overpriced and expensive to discourage undesirables who cannot afford it, or that you think it should only be available to middle class passengers who prefer to sit with their own kind.

Businessmen who have paid £300 for their tickets may not want to sit in first class with a group of stags and hens, or single mums and children who paid considerably less. Although they still have every right to be there

There is nothing stopping you from upgrading using the same “ghastly app” that these frightful commoners use. No need to pay more when don’t have to unless, you require a full first class ticket to satisfy one’s ego ;)
 
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Skymonster

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You must admit though that the ambiance in first is usually better than in standard. Some may not care while others do - I know I do sometimes and it’s nothing to do with ego. Just a couple of weeks ago I was on busy train sat opposite the Clampetts and their wayward children obviously off for a day out, mum and dad drinking (11:00AM) from cans and noisily discussing problems that wouldn’t have been amiss on Jeremy Kyle or Jerry Springer, while the kinds were left to run amok. I was doing a crossword and (trying to) listen to music through headphones. As the guard passed through doing a ticket inspection I think he realised what was going on and said discretely “you’re welcome to go and sit in first if you wish.” OK so first was virtually empty but in hindsight it was an experience improvement I’d gladly have paid for. And while I’d not describe standard as “ghastly” in general, that family did meet the criteria IMO.
 

Bald Rick

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You must admit though that the ambiance in first is usually better than in standard. Some may not care while others do - I know I do sometimes and it’s nothing to do with ego. Just a couple of weeks ago I was on busy train sat opposite the Clampetts and their wayward children obviously off for a day out, mum and dad drinking (11:00AM) from cans and noisily discussing problems that wouldn’t have been amiss on Jeremy Kyle or Jerry Springer, while the kinds were left to run amok. I was doing a crossword and (trying to) listen to music through headphones. As the guard passed through doing a ticket inspection I think he realised what was going on and said discretely “you’re welcome to go and sit in first if you wish.” OK so first was virtually empty but in hindsight it was an experience improvement I’d gladly have paid for. And while I’d not describe standard as “ghastly” in general, that family did meet the criteria IMO.

Great customer service!
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Money does not buy you class…or does it? We live in a world where people now generally look for value for money over luxury. It is not clear whether your complaint is that first class should be intentionally overpriced and expensive to discourage undesirables who cannot afford it, or that you think it should only be available to middle class passengers who prefer to sit with their own kind.

Businessmen who have paid £300 for their tickets may not want to sit in first class with a group of stags and hens, or single mums and children who paid considerably less. Although they still have every right to be there

There is nothing stopping you from upgrading using the same “ghastly app” that these frightful commoners use. No need to pay more when don’t have to unless, you require a full first class ticket to satisfy one’s ego ;)
The app isn’t working anymore as Avanti have decided £30 for standard pm is a good alternative for £12 for a first class price for any journey
Whilst this isn’t Standard Premium, instead First Class; I’ve just seen this on Twitter. I presume it’s the gniocchi with the salmon, and it looks amazing:

Okay now that does look good, well presented and big.
 

Skie

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And a pot of tea with a tea bag, not the rank brew that is probably getting most of its taste from the stains inside the tea urns.

I dont like the options on the menu, but the food does look good.
 

Bald Rick

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Although no doubt saw the ticket was marked as Priv and decided to give another member of rail staff a free upgrade.

Mere minions who pay full fare won't get treated in the same way

Ahh, I didn’t know a priv was involved.
 

185143

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I was on the last train out of Glasgow a few years ago, back in Virgin days, in First Class and the service was fantastic. There was about 6 of us spread across the whole 4 1st class carriages mind. But the crew had come round, no trolley or anything, and asked us if we'd like a drink and then bringing them to us individually before we'd even departed.

Food wasn't overly substantial, just a prepackaged burrito (or two) and snacks but it matched the advertised offer and the fare was much cheaper than on many earlier trains. The crew were very attentive with drink runs, to the extent that I ended up declining the last one as I'd already had plenty and was getting off imminently and being one of the last to do so. My glass can't have been dry for more than about 15 minutes total between Glasgow and Preston at least. That's the kind of service they should be aiming for with the prices charged, albeit with proper meals rather than cold prepackaged burritos.
 

williamn

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I was on the last train out of Glasgow a few years ago, back in Virgin days, in First Class and the service was fantastic. There was about 6 of us spread across the whole 4 1st class carriages mind. But the crew had come round, no trolley or anything, and asked us if we'd like a drink and then bringing them to us individually before we'd even departed.

Food wasn't overly substantial, just a prepackaged burrito (or two) and snacks but it matched the advertised offer and the fare was much cheaper than on many earlier trains. The crew were very attentive with drink runs, to the extent that I ended up declining the last one as I'd already had plenty and was getting off imminently and being one of the last to do so. My glass can't have been dry for more than about 15 minutes total between Glasgow and Preston at least. That's the kind of service they should be aiming for with the prices charged, albeit with proper meals rather than cold prepackaged burritos.
The fact there were only 6 of you underlines why Avanti are making changes to 1st and introducing SP!
 

185143

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The fact there were only 6 of you underlines why Avanti are making changes to 1st and introducing SP!
That last train runs more as a positioning move really, to bring both the train and crew back South. I used to use it regularly and it never carried more than about 50 on the whole train, most of whom were off at Lockerbie or Carlisle. Put it this way, I had a Voyager on it once and those of us that wanted tables to ourselves had no problem getting them.
 

stj

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You must admit though that the ambiance in first is usually better than in standard. Some may not care while others do - I know I do sometimes and it’s nothing to do with ego. Just a couple of weeks ago I was on busy train sat opposite the Clampetts and their wayward children obviously off for a day out, mum and dad drinking (11:00AM) from cans and noisily discussing problems that wouldn’t have been amiss on Jeremy Kyle or Jerry Springer, while the kinds were left to run amok. I was doing a crossword and (trying to) listen to music through headphones. As the guard passed through doing a ticket inspection I think he realised what was going on and said discretely “you’re welcome to go and sit in first if you wish.” OK so first was virtually empty but in hindsight it was an experience improvement I’d gladly have paid for. And while I’d not describe standard as “ghastly” in general, that family did meet the criteria IMO.
The reason I hear from so many as to why they dont use trains! I see it often,many of these anti-social types getting on and off at unstaffed stations and dont even buy a ticket.
 

williamn

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That last train runs more as a positioning move really, to bring both the train and crew back South. I used to use it regularly and it never carried more than about 50 on the whole train, most of whom were off at Lockerbie or Carlisle. Put it this way, I had a Voyager on it once and those of us that wanted tables to ourselves had no problem getting them.
Interesting - I am often on it too! I'd say it seems busier than 50 these days, but definitely not a busy train in general.
 

Scotrail314209

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The fact there were only 6 of you underlines why Avanti are making changes to 1st and introducing SP!
The mid-morning and afternoon trains are normally the busiest of the lot. I’m assuming they are talking about the 20:10 Glasgow to Crewe service which has always carted fresh air.
 
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