Shortest-lived rolling stock

[Harvester]

Evening Star itself was of the same order. new in March 1960 I saw it dumped at Pontypool Road, rods off and looking unkempt, in what must have been spring 1964. Took a while to be "officially" withdrawn for preservation, but looked unlikely to have run again.

It’s withdrawal date was a year later (March 1965), exactly 5 years after entering service. It appears to have been the shortest lived Standard loco to run in BR service, ahead of 92210 which managed 5 years 3 months.

 

[Bikeman78]

Maybe it's just me, but pictures of locos/units in service prior to fatal accidents that saw them written off are a special kind of haunting IMO.

At the risk of straying off topic, the one that still gives me the creeps is the head on crash near Halle in Belgium in 2010. I travelled on unit 214 just a few months before. It was on the front cover of the Benelux rolling stock book in the 1990s. The only comfort is that it survived fairly intact, unlike the train that it hit.

 

[Whistler40145]

Does the British Rail AL4 Class 84 qualify?

 

[Taunton]

Does the British Rail AL4 Class 84 qualify?

I think the North British-built electric locos were one of those classes that had two lives. Out of use reasonably soon after building, but when the WCML electrification was extended to Glasgow in 1974 they were taken from store and given a big rebuild, rather than building the equivalent number of new locomotives. Despite which they were laid on one side again a few years later.

Same story as their D61xx Class 21 (and 29) diesels. North British were known for poor diesel engine building standards, but quite how they managed to so badly cock up electric locos where they were essentially given all the drawings and specifications by BR (as with the other AC loco builders) is just difficult to comprehend. They had previously built large electric locos for export without issue.

 

[LOL The Irony]

T68a trams on the Metrolink

Just under 15 years, with 2001 being out of service for 5 of those with it's infamous wiring fault.

 

[wobman]

May I foresee class 230 and 769

Yes

 

[norbitonflyer]

Does the British Rail AL4 Class 84 qualify?

Introduced in 1960, all withdrawn between 1977 and 1980 except for one converted for use as a load bank for test purposes.

The main problem was the mercury-arc rectifiers, although it seems that Classes 81 and 82 did not have the same problems, despite also being fitted with them. (The contemporary Class 85s had semiconductor rectifiers)

The Class 84s were rebuilt in 1963 but problems persisted and were stored again (along with Class 83) between 1967 (when enough 86s were available to replace them) and 1973 (when the extension to Glasgow required more locomotives, and all four classes 81-84 were rebuilt with semiconductor rectifiers.

For completeness, Class 82 went extinct in 1987, Class 83 in 1989, Class 81 in 1991, and class 85 in 1992

 

[D6975]

How about Class 210 DEMUs?

Still one vehicle in regular service today, 67301 in class 455 unit 5913.

 

[yorksrob]

I once did a lot of research on this. Whilst I easily found the destination of most of those trailers, the 4301-55 batch mostly vanished. At the same time a batch of Bulleid class 416s were built at a time of only BR standard builds. I assumed that these bodies were switched or coaches converted to the class 416 units.

## Remember ## locos are not rolling stock so off topic.

I Presume the destination for those you managed to account for was the cutters yard ?

 

[43096]

I once did a lot of research on this. Whilst I easily found the destination of most of those trailers, the 4301-55 batch mostly vanished. At the same time a batch of Bulleid class 416s were built at a time of only BR standard builds. I assumed that these bodies were switched or coaches converted to the class 416 units.

## Remember ## locos are not rolling stock so off topic.

Does this give any further information beyond what you found?

https://www.bloodandcustard.com/SR-AugSUB.html#Seven

 

[reddragon]

I Presume the destination for those you managed to account for was the cutters yard ?

No most of them were added to class 415s, and some latter 405s. Very few all steel Bulleids went to scrap until the 508s arrived.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Still one vehicle in regular service today, 67301 in class 455 unit 5913.

Two - 67400 has been in unit 5912 since c1990. This was used to replace a car which had been used for testing plug doors and had proved uneconomic to return to standard. For many years it ran with its original Class 210 windows but these were replaced when the unit was refurbished. It still lacks the of cantrail rainstrip fitted to all other class 455/9 cars.
67301 was more extensively rebuilt, including replacing its driving cab with a the undamaged non-driving end from the vehicle it replaced - the one that had a concrete mixer fall on it at Oxshott.

 

[D6975]

Two - 67400 has been in unit 5912 since c1990. This was used to replace a car which had been used for testing plug doors and had proved uneconomic to return to standard. For many years it ran with its original Class 210 windows but these were replaced when the unit was refurbished. It still lacks the of cantrail rainstrip fitted to all other class 455/9 cars.
67301 was more extensively rebuilt, including replacing its driving cab with a the undamaged non-driving end from the vehicle it replaced - the one that had a concrete mixer fall on it at Oxshott.

ooh - that means I've got an error in my spreadsheet. Which vehicle did 67400 replace? 62837 or 71525?

aaargghh - just discovered that the plug door scrapper was actually 71731 from 5918 so there's been a bit of a shuffle.

edit - as far as I can ascertain the misformed units are;

455912 77835 62837 67400 77836

455913 77837 67301 71726 77838

455918 77847 62843 71725 77848

 

[Dstock7080]

District line D78 stock (ok i know some have been converteted).

January 1980-April 2017, only 37 years.

 

[yorksrob]

No most of them were added to class 415s, and some latter 405s. Very few all steel Bulleids went to scrap until the 508s arrived.

Ah well, that's less wasteful than I'd imagined !

 

[norbitonflyer]

ooh - that means I've got an error in my spreadsheet. Which vehicle did 67400 replace? 62837 or 71525?

aaargghh - just discovered that the plug door scrapper was actually 71731 from 5918 so there's been a bit of a shuffle.

edit - as far as I can ascertain the misformed units are;

455912 77835 62837 67400 77836

455913 77837 67301 71726 77838

455918 77847 62843 71725 77848

According to the latest stockbooks I have in my possession (both dated 2019)

5912 has 67400
5905 has 71725 (ex 5912)
5919 has 71718 (ex 5905)
5918 has 71732 (ex 5919)

 

[reddragon]

Ah well, that's less wasteful than I'd imagined !

Its actually better than that.

All 3SUBs and 2NOLs were converted from older LH stock and LBSCR OH units, dating back to the 1890's even to the point that a few 4 wheel coach bodies were paired up on new underframes

Then all of these units were rebodied into Class 405,415,416 and the EE507 motors rewound for higher power.

Then when they were withdrawn their motors and equipment was reused on the class 455/456s.

So, EE507 motors on Class 455s were on 4SUBs ex 3SUBs from as early as the 1920's

They are hence the opposite to this threads point.

 

[Fireless]

So far, the DLR P89 stock seems to take the dubious honour of being shortest-lived production fleet.

They only had a very short working life on the DLR and were far from life-expired when being retired.
The whole fleet was sold to Essen in Germany where they were fitted with cabs and pantographs in 1996 and all of them are still in service 25 years later with the units replacing them (and the whole standard gauge Stadtbahn fleet of the Ruhrbahn) having just been ordered in June 2021 with the first two prototypes planned to arrive in Essen in the first half of 2024.

All P86 with the exception of (52)11 (scrapped in 2017) are also still in service in Essen and were even rebuilt a second time to match the P89.

 

[bramling]

They only had a very short working life on the DLR and were far from life-expired when being retired.
The whole fleet was sold to Essen in Germany where they were fitted with cabs and pantographs in 1996 and all of them are still in service 25 years later with the units replacing them (and the whole standard gauge Stadtbahn fleet of the Ruhrbahn) having just been ordered in June 2021 with the first two prototypes planned to arrive in Essen in the first half of 2024.

All P86 with the exception of (52)11 (scrapped in 2017) are also still in service in Essen and were even rebuilt a second time to match the P89.

The P stock is an interesting case for sure, especially what would have happened had an overseas buyer not been found. Was any consideration given to the P stock being used on one of the provincial light rail systems? Midland Metro might have been a possibility, but perhaps not quite enough of them (though saying that, the capacity of a single P stock can’t be massively different to a T69, so working singly the P stock would have been just about okay).

 

[norbitonflyer]

Its actually better than that.

All 3SUBs and 2NOLs were converted from older LH stock and LBSCR OH units, dating back to the 1890's even to the point that a few 4 wheel coach bodies were paired up on new underframes

Then all of these units were rebodied into Class 405,415,416 and the EE507 motors rewound for higher power.

Then when they were withdrawn their motors and equipment was reused on the class 455/456s.

So, EE507 motors on Class 455s were on 4SUBs ex 3SUBs from as early as the 1920's

They are hence the opposite to this threads point.

Not all 3SUBs - the first 138 (Nos 1201-1310, 1496-1524) were built new to provide a pool so that Loco-hauled stock could start to be converted.
The rebuilding of steam stock often used parts of three different bodies. (David Brown's comprehensive history of the SR EMUs gives the details)

Of the 486 trailers built for 4SUBs, either in all-new units or for augmentation of older 3SUBs, (Nos 10121-10400, 10419-10481, 8901 - 9034), I can find only about a dozen that were withdrawn before 1972. Over 400 were converted for use in 4EPBs, mostly in the 1950s but some as late as 1983 (matched with ex 2HAP motor coaches)

As has been noted, some of these trailers were new bodies on underframes that had previously carried bodies converted from loco-hauled stock. So veritable hundred-year old "Trigger's Broom"s - two bodies, two underframes, and three sets of traction equipment (including steam haulage).

Many of the earlier augmentation trailers, as well as the first ten 4SUBs (the "Sheba"'s) were not actually all-steel as they had wood-and-canvas roofs. According to Hugh Longworth's listings, the first truly all-steel trailer was No 10391, built in 1946.

 

[30907]

No most of them were added to class 415s, and some latter 405s. Very few all steel Bulleids went to scrap until the 508s arrived.

Sadly, summarising the Bloodandcustard info linked by 43096 (it is really exhaustive, and I've barely skimmed it) the augmentation trailers for 4301-55 remained in their units until the late 50s, were then stored at Micheldever but as most of them had wood-and-canvas roofs (which were out of favour) they were scrapped around 1964 (the steel-roofed ones survived).
By then the Bulleid-type EPBs had long ceased production, so there was no real use for them.

(The 2-EPBs/NOPs/HAPs of that ilk aka 416/1 were built on 2-NOL underframes, as you say.)

norbitonflyer has made overlapping points.

 

[reddragon]

I did not know about the canvas roof issue before, I know it was certainly complicated and worth a book of its own.

Some of the 4REP/TCs vehicles similarly were converted from very early Mk1 coaches and their motors passed onto class 442s

 

[D6975]

According to the latest stockbooks I have in my possession (both dated 2019)

5912 has 67400
5905 has 71725 (ex 5912)
5919 has 71718 (ex 5905)
5918 has 71732 (ex 5919)

thanks - so it's even worse than I thought. At least I can correct my unit database

 

[317666]

GWR ‘King’ class 4-6-0 no. 6007 ‘King William III’ was built at Swindon in March 1928, as part of the 30-strong fleet of locos completed by the end of 1930. It was written off in a severe accident at Shrivenham in January 1936 and therefore the GWR constructed a replacement locomotive in March of the same year, which assumed the same name and number as the original but was an entirely separate locomotive.

Looking overseas, a similar thing happened with DB's 101092. It entered service in June 1998 and was written off in the derailment at Brühl in February 2000. A replacement 101092 was constructed in 2001, although it did use a few parts salvaged from the original.

 

[47444]

As has been noted, some of these trailers were new bodies on underframes that had previously carried bodies converted from loco-hauled stock. So veritable hundred-year old "Trigger's Broom"s - two bodies, two underframes, and three sets of traction equipment (including steam haulage).

Every one of the SR design 4EPB, 2EPB and 2Hap vehicles were built on reconditioned underframes that had originally been under the pre-war suburban units which had wooden bodies converted from steam stock.

Many of the later steel 4Sub vehicles were similar.

Not all 3SUBs - the first 138 (Nos 1201-1310, 1496-1524) were built new to provide a pool so that Loco-hauled stock could start to be converted.
The rebuilding of steam stock often used parts of three different bodies. (David Brown's comprehensive history of the SR EMUs gives the details)

It wasn't as many as 138 units, there were 55 units built new in 1925: Western section 1285-1310 and eastern section 1496-1524. On augmentation to 4Subs using Bulleid trailers these units became 4301-4355. All bar ten of these augmentation trailers were canvas roofed and did not see further life after the withdrawal of this batch by 1962.

Units 1201-1284 were the original LSWR 'nutcracker' units new from 1915 onwards. These were lengthened and rebuilt on SR underframes in the 1930s. Most were agumented to 4Subs during and after the war. Nearly all of them gained wooden bodied trailers from 2 car trailer units rather than having Bulleid trailers.

The whole saga is very complicated and I refer you to:

https://www.bloodandcustard.com/LSWR-3carmotorunits.html

https://www.bloodandcustard.com/LSWR-2CarTrailerSets.html

and

https://www.bloodandcustard.com/SR-AugSUB.html

for the full "grisly" story

 

[43096]

Looking overseas, a similar thing happened with DB's 101092. It entered service in June 1998 and was written off in the derailment at Brühl in February 2000. A replacement 101092 was constructed in 2001, although it did use a few parts salvaged from the original.

Likewise ÖBB had three new Taurus bodyshells built by Siemens that were used to replace 1116017/062/173, re-using the numbers.

 

[Taunton]

I did not know about the canvas roof issue before, I know it was certainly complicated and worth a book of its own.

"The 4-SUB story" by Brian Rayner and the Southern Electric Group. About 40 years old but he's a pretty informed author. One of the things it described is just how old-fashioned the various auxiliaries were compared to the EPBs that followed. I certainly remember myself getting off a train at Earlsfield in about 1984 and being amazed that an electric service was being sent off at each stop with a green flag.

"4 Sub" Story: Amazon.co.uk: Rayner, Bryan W., Brown, David, Southern Electric Group: 9780906988091: Books

 

[reddragon]

"The 4-SUB story" by Brian Rayner and the Southern Electric Group. About 40 years old but he's a pretty informed author. One of the things it described is just how old-fashioned the various auxiliaries were compared to the EPBs that followed. I certainly remember myself getting off a train at Earlsfield in about 1984 and being amazed that an electric service was being sent off at each stop with a green flag.

"4 Sub" Story: Amazon.co.uk: Rayner, Bryan W., Brown, David, Southern Electric Group: 9780906988091: Books

Wow that's one hell of a detailed account

 

[nw1]

For completeness, Class 82 went extinct in 1987, Class 83 in 1989, Class 81 in 1991, and class 85 in 1992

Interesting the 82s and 83s lasted that long into the eighties; I say that as despite several visits to Stafford from around 1983-85 I never saw examples of either. I do recall 81s though, primarily on freight or unadvertised passenger services. What services were using them by that stage?

 

[Harvester]

GWR ‘King’ class 4-6-0 no. 6007 ‘King William III’ was built at Swindon in March 1928, as part of the 30-strong fleet of locos completed by the end of 1930. It was written off in a severe accident at Shrivenham in January 1936 and therefore the GWR constructed a replacement locomotive in March of the same year, which assumed the same name and number as the original but was an entirely separate locomotive.

This was also the case when A3 Grand Parade was wrecked in the Castlecary crash in December 1937. Doncaster built a replacement from its Stores Pool, which entered service in April 1938, and the wreck finally reached Doncaster for scrapping the same month. The replacement would have contained nothing but the nameplates from the original construction.