Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I always was taken aback by the look of the "Big Boy" locomotives from the other side of the pond.
Likewise the Northern class 195 and 331 units....but they look ridiculous because all the digits run together in a single long number instead of having the required spaces and hyphen in the appropriate places.I do appreciate TPE putting the full European fleet number on the side of it's 397s/802s!
Class 80x is hardly "British" when it comes from all over including construction in Japan and Italy.
UK regulations and practice determine how different the original train needs to be to meet the UK spec.
This is less common nowadays but in the BR era and in the early days of privatisation 1st class and non-smoking accommodation was usually denoted by window labels whereas in mainland Europe the class of accommodation (and whether it was a smoking or non-smoking compartment or coach in the days of smoking accommodation) is normally denoted by signs on the coach bodyside next to each door and inside the coach (on each compartment door in side corridor coaches and above or next to the door at the end of the saloon in saloon coaches).
Hence perhaps the decision to base the mock-up 'continental' loco in the "Mission Impossible" film on the 9F outline design?The Swindon men of course looked down rather on the functional messiness of Riddles' 9Fs that they were tasked with building up to 1960, with its high frames and exposed running gear. Dare I say more like a German or French loco than anything we ever made.
Essentially because Crocs (and rod-drives of all sort, including the box-nose types) were superseded by the classic two-hour design (BLS Ae4/4 was the first IIRC) before we had main-line electric locos (bar the NER one).I was going to say we never had any "Krokodil" electric locos (ie ugly as sin), although we may have had some on the very early schemes (Lancaster-Heysham, Newcastle perhaps).
They were quite common in CH/AT until fairly recent times, I encountered them on the RhB lines, and on the Zugspitze railway (valley section).
Whether the LNER came up with the EM1/EM2 design independently of mainland Europe I don't know - it's possible - but the ASEA Rc design has strong Swiss affinities, no doubt because ASEA and Brown Boveri merged at some stage! The (recent!) black livery is reminiscent of the LNER though - I can't recall another European country using black on electric locos.I found myself a few years ago on a loco-hauled SJ service from Stockholm to Oslo.
It occurred to me that the SJ loco could well have seen its origins with those on the Woodhead route - I think this was the type, still in use across Sweden:
SJ Rc5 1388 with an Intercity train at Sala Station, Photo 1 - SJ Rc - Wikipedia
I think the 26000/27000 series were both in black, too.
Again, Belgium and NL are exceptions to that rule. I think some Japanese units have front gangways too.Unit end gangway, we are almost unique in the world for those.
But they look distinctly European and Japanese respectively. Superalbs is completely correct in his post.gain, Belgium and NL are exceptions to that rule. I think some Japanese units have front gangways too.
I disagree. I’d say something like an AM64 has a lot in common with contemporary UK units:But they look distinctly European and Japanese respectively. Superalbs is completely correct in his post.
They might have some, but generally outside of the UK, they are not at all the done thing.Again, Belgium and NL are exceptions to that rule. I think some Japanese units have front gangways too.
I'd say sort of, if it wasn't for the lack of diaphragm on the front.I disagree. I’d say something like an AM64 has a lot in common with contemporary UK units:
I was thinking the same. A pitfall of being first, really.I'm sure you know this, but it wasn't really a "decision" as such. More a combination of (a) what we were capable of building in the 1830s, coupled with (b) never having to rebuild following conflict, which deprived us of the opportunity to re-assess what was required.
Most early British electric locomotive designs (pre-Grouping, or indeed pre-1940) were of "Steeple cab" or "Camel back" design.Essentially because Crocs (and rod-drives of all sort, including the box-nose types) were superseded by the classic two-hour design (BLS Ae4/4 was the first IIRC) before we had main-line electric locos (bar the NER one).
criticismAgainst what could a Pacer be sufficiently armoured ?
The NER 2-C-2 EE1 of 1922 (not 1913, typo there I think) bears something of a resemblance to the Pennsylvania Railroad 2-C+C-2 GG1 of 1934, some of which lasted until 1983! A similar lifespan to some Class 86s I suppose.3Most early British electric locomotive designs (before 1920, or indeed 1940) were of "Steeple cab" or "Camel back" design.
the Central London Railway's locomotives of 1900 (Bo-Bo wheel arrangement) (total, 18). Withdrawn by 1905.
the NER's Class ES1 of 1903 (Bo-Bo) (Two)
the Metropolitan Railway's original locomotives of 1906 (ten examples)
the LYR's No 1 of 1912 (2-B-2,complete with side-rods)
the NER's Class EF1 of 1913 (Bo-Bo) (Ten examples)
the NER's Class EE1 of 1913 (2-C-2, not double-bogie)
the North Staffordshire's battery locomotives of 1913 and 1917 (Bo) (Two)
the LYR's No 2 of 1917 (Bo) - also battery powered
Total 27, (45 including the short-lived CLR examples)
There were double-cab examples as well - the single shunting engine built for the Waterloo & City Line, ten built for the Metropolitan District railway, and a second batch of ten for the Met (all twenty were rebuilt in the 1920s) - total 21.
The largest electric fleet of all, eventually numbering 52, were the bizarrely designed locos for the City & South London Railway. This could be described as centre-cab, but the electrical equipment was on either side of the driver, not fore-and-aft.
I am not aware of any new electric locos built between the Wars for UK railways. The next were the Raworth "booster" Co-Cos for the Southern Railway in 1940 (later Class 70) and the first "Tommy" (Class 76) the following year.
Do you mean these odd little things? Bizarre appearance.The largest electric fleet of all, eventually numbering 52, were the bizarrely designed locos for the City & South London Railway. This could be described as centre-cab, but the electrical equipment was on either side of the driver, not fore-and-aft.
I think the American one still looks more American. Possibly because of the air smoothed look that really isn't there on the LNER one.The NER 2-C-2 EE1 of 1922 (not 1913, typo there I think) bears something of a resemblance to the Pennsylvania Railroad 2-C+C-2 GG1 of 1934, some of which lasted until 1983! A similar lifespan to some Class 86s I suppose.
That was based on a different BR standard design - The 'Britannia' Pacific, though the general premise may well still apply.Hence perhaps the decision to base the mock-up 'continental' loco in the "Mission Impossible" film on the 9F outline design?
True....but, wheel arrangement apart, the outline design of the Britannia and 9F is practically identical.That was based on a different BR standard design - The 'Britannia' Pacific, though the general premise may well still apply.
Similar styling to the Scottish "Blue Trains" (Classes 303 and 311) and the LMR class 310s. Wrap-round windscreens were also fitted to the gangwayed classes 309 and 123 (which gave the latter a much improved appearance compared to the otherwise similar 126s).Years before that, I always liked the look of the front end curved side windows on the Class 124 units on the cross-Pennine services.
Bulleid Pacifics were not actually pre-war.The first was built in 1941I hadn't appreciated before reading this thread just how elegant our pre-war steam locos were compared to foreign locos, particularly those of the GWR, from Gooch, Churchward and Collett but also of course Gresley, Stanier and Bulleid, and many others.
As do the class 380s. It’s the tapered body sides that do it I think.I think that the Northern 195s and 331s also look quite continental.
All British Railways diesel, electric, and gas turbine locos were in black until about 1957, when a sea of BR green started to envelop the fleet. Some shunters were still black in the late 1970s, by which time the only surviving pre-Nationalisation main line type, the EM1 Woodhead electrics, were all blue.I think the 26000/27000 series were both in black, too.
There’s ICM Koplopers in the Netherlands & AM96 units in Belgium, but yet, not as widespread as I had thought.I don't think I have seen anything like single door gangwayed intercity stock like 442s & 444s anywhere outside the UK - some may exist probably not as widespread.
I don't think I have seen anything like single door gangwayed intercity stock like 442s & 444s anywhere outside the UK - some may exist probably not as widespread.
I agree with comnents about gangwayed stock being a British trait