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Island Line Upgrade updates

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Xenophon PCDGS

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The only exception would be for any buses serving the Cowes Red Jet terminal which has always needed single deckers due to a severe height restriction - but I believe SV no longer serve the terminal itself and the route now ends at the previous stop where there is a turning circle... So no need for any single deckers anywhere on their current network.
Indeed it was both the tightest height and width entrance to the Cowes Red Jet terminal that I have ever seen a single-deck bus take on.
 
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Rick1984

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Indeed it was both the tightest height and width entrance to the Cowes Red Jet terminal that I have ever seen a single-deck bus take on.
Yes it is quite a turn basically through a narrow archway. Must have been many scrapes over the years.

The single deck buses were put to use between Ryde and Newport via Havenstreet a few years back when the main road was being resurfaced
 

A0wen

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Are there no single-deckers on the island?

Some but not many. Southern Vectis has only had a limited number of single decks for many years.

To give an idea in the past they they took 96 Bristol Lodekkas, 70 Bristol VRs but only 19 Bristol REs, 16 Bristol LHs, 19 Leyland Nationals.
 

Gloster

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Other than some Optare Solos, which are mainly used on the ‘shopping’ routes, and possibly one of the old Darts (you don’t see it for ages and then it reappears), the fleet is all double-decks. The 1 used to go straight to the Red Jet terminal, reached through a narrow arch, and then call at the Co-op on the return: this required small single-deckers, latterly Enviro 200s. Now it goes straight to the Co-op, which has a turning circle, and terminates there: there is no longer a problem caused by what vehicles can get through the arch.
 

hermit

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Very few if any these days. The former Wightbus operation (which shut down for entirely political reasons around a decade ago) almost exclusively used single deckers on their routes but they are now long gone; Southern Vectis have moved to pretty much exclusively using double deckers. The only exception would be for any buses serving the Cowes Red Jet terminal which has always needed single deckers due to a severe height restriction - but I believe SV no longer serve the terminal itself and the route now ends at the previous stop where there is a turning circle... So no need for any single deckers anywhere on their current network.
As I understand it, the decision to change the Newport- Cowes Rte 1, which is the most frequent route on the island, to double deckers was made in order to allow for Covid spacing. A pity, as watching the single deckers navigate the arch to the Redjet terminal was always a great spectacle, requiring serious skill from the drivers.

(getting back on topic)
Apparently a new date for services starting has been mostly-confirmed. 1st November.

Given where test running is at I'd say this is the most believable-looking date officially given so far. If it actually happens, then it will have taken a 10 month shutdown to achieve what was supposed to be done within 3. I know once everyone actually gets to ride it the delay will fade in our collective memory but it's not good.

Looking at the proposed train timetable from 1 November, there will be 33 journeys to Pier Head on weekdays. Only 14 of those journeys will connect with a catamaran, according to Wightlink’s timetable. That’s an awful lot of useless journeys up the pier.

Given that much of the rationale for the Island Line upgrade, and in particular the Brading loop, was to provide better half-hourly connections to the ferry, that’s a bit thought-provoking. It certainly points up the difference between a service provided to meet public needs (the railway)and one run very largely to maximise financial returns (Wightlink).
 
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Gloster

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As I understand it, the decision to change the Newport- Cowes Rte 1, which is the most frequent route on the island, to double deckers was made in order to allow for Covid spacing. A pity, as watching the single deckers navigate the arch to the Redjet terminal was always a great spectacle, requiring serious skill from the drivers.
I can’t remember whether the Red Jets were cancelled completely during the lockdowns or just peak-hours only, but they are still operating a much thinner service than they used to. I would expect that there are far fewer passengers and a far higher proportion of them are regulars who know the way to and from the bus terminal. For the moment the ability to social distance trumps the ‘seamless’ journey and I suspect that this situation will continue for at least another year or two: the Enviro 200s are all on the mainland.
 

30907

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I would expect that there are far fewer passengers and a far higher proportion of them are regulars who know the way to and from the bus terminal.
For those who don't know Cowes, the distance isn't much more than 100m.
 

SAPhil

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For those who don't know Cowes, the distance isn't much more than 100m.
Even if you do know Cowes, it's a pain when you have luggage and/or if it's raining! The single deckers always seemed to be there whenever I got off the ferry whereas now when I get to the bus stop I often have to wait a while.
 

Gloster

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Even if you do know Cowes, it's a pain when you have luggage and/or if it's raining! The single deckers always seemed to be there whenever I got off the ferry whereas now when I get to the bus stop I often have to wait a while.
With the old timetable, if things were running to time, one bus did not leave until the next had arrived. As they ran every seven or eight minutes, you usually did not have to wait long. Now they are every ten minutes and don’t hang around long at the stop, at least in my experience.
 

norbitonflyer

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Looking at the proposed train timetable from 1 November, there will be 33 journeys to Pier Head on weekdays. Only 14 of those journeys will connect with a catamaran, according to Wightlink’s timetable. That’s an awful lot of useless journeys up the pier.
I don't know whether reversal is possible at Ryde Esplanade. Even if it isn't, having all trains run to the pierhead reduces the likelihood of missed connections if the boat is late.
 

Ianno87

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I don't know whether reversal is possible at Ryde Esplanade. Even if it isn't, having all trains run to the pierhead reduces the likelihood of missed connections if the boat is late.

Does running on the Pier ever get suspended in poor weather?
 

Gloster

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Does running on the Pier ever get suspended in poor weather?
Previously it only tended to be when the FastCats were cancelled, which seemed (a purely subjective opinion) to become more common in recent years. The pier is relatively sheltered: it is only really a problem when the wind is coming from a relatively small part of the compass (just south of east).
 

DelW

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I don't know whether reversal is possible at Ryde Esplanade. Even if it isn't, having all trains run to the pierhead reduces the likelihood of missed connections if the boat is late.
What could prevent trains reversing at Esplanade, bearing in mind that both up and down trains use the same platform and track? Even if/when a two train service is operating, the second train would be the other side of Brading anyway.
 

Gloster

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What could prevent trains reversing at Esplanade, bearing in mind that both up and down trains use the same platform and track? Even if/when a two train service is operating, the second train would be the other side of Brading anyway.
It would depend on whether the track-circuits and locking allow the single/double-line points to be reversed with a train in the platform, rather than on the pier. I would be surprised if the shuttle restarts: they have removed a section of track at the St John’s Road end of the shuttle platform at Esplanade. They have also filled in the subway.
 

pompeyfan

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Previously it only tended to be when the FastCats were cancelled, which seemed (a purely subjective opinion) to become more common in recent years. The pier is relatively sheltered: it is only really a problem when the wind is coming from a relatively small part of the compass (just south of east).

the current vessels are purpose built for the route, where as the previous 4 were adapted for the route. As a result they tended to be cancelled more often than the current offering. They are slower but handle rough weather significantly better.

the hovercrafts on the other hand… the previous AP88s and the BHT130 were able to fly in much worse weather.
 

Gloster

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the current vessels are purpose built for the route, where as the previous 4 were adapted for the route. As a result they tended to be cancelled more often than the current offering. They are slower but handle rough weather significantly better.
I having a feeling, based on little more than a few overheard comments, that it is more a matter of policy than anything else. The risk that someone will fall over and injure themselves, particularly when boarding or disembarking, has got some within the management running scared.
 

hermit

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Previously it only tended to be when the FastCats were cancelled, which seemed (a purely subjective opinion) to become more common in recent years. The pier is relatively sheltered: it is only really a problem when the wind is coming from a relatively small part of the compass (just south of east).

My experience of the Fastcats is that they are very rarely cancelled for weather-related reasons. They handle rough seas much better than either of the previous generations of hi-speed craft. I have been on board when it‘s been a struggle to berth because the wind referred to was pushing the cat away from the pier, but that’s a rare quarter for strong winds to come from and I’d be surprised if that led to many cancellations.

(In contrast, the comparable Redjet service from Cowes to Southampton has become increasingly prone to weather cancellations in recent years, suggesting that more cautious operating parameters have been introduced for some reason.)

As far as trains up the pier being cancelled is concerned, this has happened quite often when the tides are particularly high, combined with wind (from any direction) whipping up the waves. The concern was obviously that sea water would get into the train‘s electrics. I have on several occasions been turned out at Esplanade and had to walk/run up the pier to get to the cat. There would only be time for this if the bad weather was also making the cat run late. In the reverse direction you would normally get halfway down the pier to Esplanade before seeing the train depart on time from that station.

It will be interesting to see whether new trains will also be vulnerable to high tides or will be more resilient. For the moment I will continue to consult the tide tables when planning a journey to Pierhead in bad weather.
 

AY1975

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Looking at the proposed train timetable from 1 November, there will be 33 journeys to Pier Head on weekdays. Only 14 of those journeys will connect with a catamaran, according to Wightlink’s timetable.
Where did you get that information from? Is the new timetable publicly available anywhere yet? The SWR website still only has the current rail replacement bus timetable.
 

Gloster

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A couple of days ago they had not reached the stage of having established actual, rather than theoretical, point to point timings. Until they do, anything that appears is unlikely to be more than a guesstimate.
 

hermit

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Where did you get that information from? Is the new timetable publicly available anywhere yet? The SWR website still only has the current rail replacement bus timetable.
National Rail journey planner - look up journeys in the first week of November.

It appears to be basically the same service pattern as the last pre-closure timetable, with some tweaks to reflect the new ability to pass at Brading.

It is of course still possible that changes will be made before the service is actually introduced.
 

nanstallon

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This part of the RMT announcement was curious:

“I therefore request that the NEC instruct the General Secretary to report urgently to the ORR and report our findings on the unsafe practices at Island Line and fully investigate before they allow the line to re-open with live traffic.”

If the local rep is sufficiently concerned that there are unsafe practices that need urgent reporting, why doesn’t he or she report them directly to the ORR themselves? Rather than writing a letter to the NEC, asking them to instruct the GS to write to the ORR ? If it’s unsafe, it surely needs to be stopped now, rather than waiting for three letters / emails to be written in sequence. It would also reduce the risk of the message being garbled in the transmission.
Perhaps best to shut down the railway system altogether, then sack the whole workforce. Start again with returnees to work remembering what the RMT got them into!
 

Chris125

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Previously it only tended to be when the FastCats were cancelled, which seemed (a purely subjective opinion) to become more common in recent years. The pier is relatively sheltered: it is only really a problem when the wind is coming from a relatively small part of the compass (just south of east).

The new craft did suffer reliability issues in the early years, but they and - crucially - the new berthing arrangements at Ryde Pier have transformed it's performance in bad weather; it keeps going through almost anything these days, and is often one of the last services to continue running.
 

Rick1984

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When I lived on the Island , in rough weather you would occasionally see waves splashing up onto the rails at the end of Esplanade, with the trains still running.
 
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hermit

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When I lived on the Island , in touch weather you would occasionally see waves splashing up onto the rails at the end of Esplanade, with the trains still running.
Yes, I‘ve seen the trains run when the sea was very high. I don’t know who would take the decision not to go up the pier. Sometimes you were warned when boarding down the line, sometimes the decision seemed to have been taken at Esplanade. The closure would of course last only for two or three hours, until the sea level had gone down again sufficiently.
 

AlbertBeale

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Yes, I‘ve seen the trains run when the sea was very high. I don’t know who would take the decision not to go up the pier. Sometimes you were warned when boarding down the line, sometimes the decision seemed to have been taken at Esplanade. The closure would of course last only for two or three hours, until the sea level had gone down again sufficiently.

If Dawlish is anything to go by, we'll soon see a suggested avoiding line...
 

Chris125

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Did the rumoured co-acting signal ever go in in the 4ft of the down line at Esplanade?

It's not in the four foot... but there *is* a co-acting signal!

I realised yesterday that the now-redundant signal on the shuttle platform (see below) might explain the lack of obvious change, with photos from the footbridge showing it uncovered again and perhaps a little wonky.

A quick walk up the pier this afternoon confirms both signals now show green to oncoming trains; some clever recycling which has presumably saved a considerable sum of money.

 
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