Peterthegreat
Established Member
So why are they wasting public money on it?Don’t worry, it would never happen. No chance of hourly London services either.
So why are they wasting public money on it?Don’t worry, it would never happen. No chance of hourly London services either.
The only money that has been spent so far is in preparing business casesSo why are they wasting public money on it?
So why are they wasting public money on it?
I was really referring to Midlands Connect. They have a lot of ambition most of which I expect to be turned down by central government.The only money that has been spent so far is in preparing business cases
The rail line linking Shrewsbury, Telford, Wolverhampton, Sandwell & Dudley and Birmingham currently does not provide the connectivity or capacity needed to support business and housing growth. At Midlands Connect we believe that quick, reliable and comfortable rail services allow businesses to attract and access a wider pool of skilled workers, giving people more choice over where they live and work
Interesting, and thanks for posting this. There seems to be a lot of conflict though (which generally seems to be Shrop vs the rest ha ha!), but I do wonder what others think of this proposal to electrify the route?One of MC media team recently spoke to Shropshire TV. It's at 1:00:15 and last less than 10 mins. It refers to the Shrewsbury link.
Suggest two things there, you aren't getting a lot for £11m and I doubt the BCR is that high without some clever accounting.The interview was interesting to say the least, 'straightening the lines out a bit' , 'shaving a bit of Oakengates tunnel' and 'putting up some bollards and wires'. A few useful nuggets, the price for the line speed improvements , 'the quick win' would be £11m - not too unreasonable, and the overall scheme including electrification would have a BCR of 3.5? better than HS2s 1.14.
£500m boost to local economy, 90% in Shrewsbury would support the scheme and 80% in Telford. Two thirds would see it as levelling up. How many Tory MPs are there along the route 4 or 5? Also exploratory talks with the WG over battery bimodes for the Cambrian.
That was 30 years ago - a lot has changed since then.
Go to Norfolk, and many people moan about not having any motorways.
MC say the cost of electrification is £140m and delivers the following benefits.Suggest two things there, you aren't getting a lot for £11m and I doubt the BCR is that high without some clever accounting.
Doesn't answer the quick win bit though. Does it specifically say what the time savings are as I have not had a proper look at the document.MC say the cost of electrification is £140m and delvers the following benefits.
Time savings to passengers are valued at up to £377 million and the reduced road traffic and other environmental benefits at up to £145 million.
That is just from the feasibility study but sounds like they are staying close to those numbers.
MC say the cost of electrification is £140m and delvers the following benefits.
Time savings to passengers are valued at up to £377 million and the reduced road traffic and other environmental benefits at up to £145 million.
That is just from the feasibility study but sounds like they are staying close to those numbers.
I'm still interested to know about these time savings, as in my post yesterday evening. I wonder if anyone can answer that? The crux is, a number of people said it would be pointless trying to save time by raising the speed limit to 90mph, so can the cost of electrification really be justified, which would undoubtedly be many times the cost of allowing the existing 90mph diesel trains to run at 90mph, and quite possibly still without exceeding 90mph?MC say the cost of electrification is £140m and delvers the following benefits.
Time savings to passengers are valued at up to £377 million and the reduced road traffic and other environmental benefits at up to £145 million.
That is just from the feasibility study but sounds like they are staying close to those numbers.
I would think the SOBC in Jan will show which early interventions they would like to make and at what cost.Doesn't answer the quick win bit though. Does it specifically say what the time savings are as I have not had a proper look at the document.
Our study examined the economic case for speeding up Shrewsbury-Birmingham services from 56 minutes to around 45 minutes, a reduction that can be achieved via track upgrades and possible electrification.
I would think the SOBC in Jan will show which early interventions they would like to make and at what cost.
"Possible electrification"? So what is the likely time saving without electrification I wonder?Our study examined the economic case for speeding up Shrewsbury-Birmingham services from 56 minutes to around 45 minutes, a reduction that can be achieved via track upgrades and possible electrification
I suspect the 45 mins would lose Wellington and Smethwick. I don't imagine that the users of either would be happy. If they tried dropping Telford too it would be outright war."Possible electrification"? So what is the likely time saving without electrification I wonder?
Second question, is "around 45 minutes" including the present stops at Wellington, Telford, Wolverhampton and Smethwick GB, or will one or more be missed in order to achieve 45 minutes?
Who in their right mind would drop Telford even losing Wellington would be a push with it seeing nearly 700k passengers a year.I suspect the 45 mins would lose Wellington and Smethwick. I don't imagine that the users of either would be happy. If they tried dropping Telford too it would be outright war.
Station Name | 1819 Entries & Exits |
Shrewsbury | 2,226,302 |
Wellington (Shropshire) | 698,712 |
Oakengates | 73,438 |
Telford Central | 1,198,384 |
Shifnal | 187,162 |
Cosford | 87,414 |
Albrighton | 101,548 |
Codsall | 125,222 |
Bilbrook | 133,688 |
It is probably just confirmation that the line can cope with 90mph without much change, in the past it has been on the brink of being uprated more than once. In the meantime maintainance/renewal work has been carried out like the bridge replacement at Albrighton a few years ago.Suggest two things there, you aren't getting a lot for £11m and I doubt the BCR is that high without some clever accounting.
Indeed- only eight vacuous pages, with eight pictures of trains or the Wrekin; 5 mentions of HS2; 5 uses of £; 22 of MP- an example of which:That's just from the feasibility study. It's only a few pages long
https://www.midlandsconnect.uk/media/1778/mc-rails-to-recovery-digital.pdf
They are a regional body so of course they talk more about benefits to local cities, Leeds and Sheffield are in Yorkshire not the Midlands. Not that they haven't majored on the benefits of those links in previous communications/engagements. In the case of Derby the service from Birmingham is currently measurably better than to either Nottingham or Leicester.Includes Toton and Leeds, but not Derby or Sheffield ...
So much investment, of hot air ...
I dont see how they can do it. Current Wolves to New St with a stop for TfW is 18 minutes. Electric isnt going to get anything off that. So you need 27 including the Wolves dwell from Shrewsbury. Currently thats 40 odd minutes. Can't see how you get that much unless you are non stop with a line speed increase.I suspect the 45 mins would lose Wellington and Smethwick. I don't imagine that the users of either would be happy. If they tried dropping Telford too it would be outright war.
TYI dont see how they can do it. Current Wolves to New St with a stop for TfW is 18 minutes. Electric isnt going to get anything off that. So you need 27 including the Wolves dwell from Shrewsbury. Currently thats 40 odd minutes. Can't see how you get that much unless you are non stop with a line speed increase.
Midlands Connect have examined the line and we believe it is possible to speed up services and increase the number of trains on the corridor from three to four per hour. This is made possible by extending the hourly Wolverhampton-Birmingham that is included in the post-HS2 assumptions to start at Shrewsbury
That makes sense. The question is, how do MC intend to take this forward without letting on that at least two stops will have to be taken out to achieve their claimed improvement?Perhaps to help a bit - even if all the stretches of 70mph between Wolves and Shrewsbury were lifted to 90mph, and the Wellington loops were removed, the journey time saving would be 5 minutes. To get more than that means taking out stops, at 2-3 minutes each.
Perhaps to help a bit - even if all the stretches of 70mph between Wolves and Shrewsbury were lifted to 90mph, and the Wellington loops were removed, the journey time saving would be 5 minutes. To get more than that means taking out stops, at 2-3 minutes each.
Cardiff, Newport, Bristol and Cheltenham not 'the Midlands' either; nor Gloucester: https://www.midlandsconnect.uk/projects/rail/They are a regional body so of course they talk more about benefits to local cities, Leeds and Sheffield are in Yorkshire not the Midlands. Not that they haven't majored on the benefits of those links in previous communications/engagements. In the case of Derby the service from Birmingham is currently measurably better than to either Nottingham or Leicester.