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Treasury Blocking electrification plans

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fishwomp

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Just published on the Telegraph: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...blocks-30bn-plan-electrify-britains-railways/

Treasury blocks £30bn plan to electrify Britain’s railways
Fears that net-zero transport won't be achieved by the 2050 target without investment into electrified railway

ByOliver Gill, CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT11 December 2021 • 3:00pm

The Treasury has blocked a £30bn blueprint to electrify Britain’s railways, raising doubts over Boris Johnson's target for a net-zero train network by 2050.

The plans, first circulated in Whitehall nearly 18 months ago, have been shelved on fears that the cost cannot be justified in the wake of the pandemic, according to industry insiders.
Sir John Armitt, chairman of the National Infrastructure Commission, warned: "2050 isn’t getting any further away and we need a detailed and costed plan for ensuring rail is decarbonised."
The original report, revealed in draft by the Telegraph in July last year, underlined the importance of taking action immediately to meet climate change commitments. It also highlighted how Britain’s railways remain far more dependent on diesel locomotives compared with countries on the Continent.
Called the Traction Decarbonisation Network Strategy (TDNS), the rail blueprint proposed electrifying 12,500 km of railway over the next 30 years with a further 1,400 km of track dedicated to hydrogen trains and 1,000 km which will be battery-powered.
[..]
 
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Nicholas Lewis

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Hardly surprising with DofT budget being consumed by operating costs due to lower than expected recovery in passenger numbers and however anyone tries to dress up the Bolton-Wigan electrification costs are just far too high. That said despite these senationalisation headlines reality is IRP has already baked in electrification of several trunk routes so this is really about the wider economics of a wholesale plan vs the use of alternatively fuelled or hybrid vehicles which has yet to be adequately established what routes it could be applied to.
 

Clarence Yard

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The IRP has not baked in any scheme - read P24. All the government has done is agreed to move the schemes to the next stage of development and evaluation.

The Treasury will still have their say before any scheme is finally approved.
 

Western 52

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So we make commitments at COP26 then head in a potentially different direction? Maybe not surprising though with post-covid passenger numbers.
 

mmh

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So we make commitments at COP26 then head in a potentially different direction? Maybe not surprising though with post-covid passenger numbers.
It's OK. We can repeat them at COP27.
 

mmh

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Disappointing if true. Albeit not unexpected from a government department whose geniuses previously came up with getting everybody to pile into the Wetherspoons for a cheap dinner in the middle of a global pandemic.
The economy is quite important. We should be spending to encourage economic activity, not to pacify environment activists with schemes which will achieve nothing but harm the economy and society.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Network Rail still has a lot to do to prove it can roll out electrification to an acceptable cost base.
The current projects (East Kilbride, Colton Jn-Church Fenton, Bolton-Wigan, Man Vic-Stalybridge) should go some way to prove that.
Plus TRU and MML in the making.
 

DanNCL

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Just like other things done by the government lately, this very much looks like a case of "lets cause as much damage as we can before we're ousted" from the Tories. Boris won't last much longer, so hopefully this'll be meaningless in the long run as the next government will be more competent than the current government (would be difficult to be less competent!) and likely reverse it.

The economy is quite important. We should be spending to encourage economic activity, not to pacify environment activists with schemes which will achieve nothing but harm the economy and society.
Utter nonsense. Do you seriously think that schemes that'll ultimately contribute to preventing the world being damaged to such an extent that the youth of today's grandchildren can't live on the planet is achieveing "nothing but harm"? What'll really cause nothing but harm in the long run is doing nothing about decarbonisation. Electrification isn't to "pacify environment activists", it's to contribute to the process of stopping the world from burning, literally.
 

Pete_uk

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Doesn't surprise me. It's sad really but let's be honest, what the UK does won't really have any effect globally.

I would like to see hybrid battery diesel (with adblue systems and maybe running biofuels) ordered to replace the 150/3/6 fleets (with AC options where necessary) as there will be a lot of more rural lines where full electrification won't reach.
 

edwin_m

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The economy is quite important. We should be spending to encourage economic activity, not to pacify environment activists with schemes which will achieve nothing but harm the economy and society.
Spending on railway electrification will encourage economic activity.
 

Zontar

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It’s ironic that if BR’s recommendations were followed through in 1981 we’d have all mainlines (see map) not only electrified, but paid for, by 2008!
 

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greyman42

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The current projects (East Kilbride, Colton Jn-Church Fenton, Bolton-Wigan, Man Vic-Stalybridge) should go some way to prove that.
I don't see much point with Colton-Church Fenton if they are not going to carry it on to Neville Hill.
 

fgwrich

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They who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing strike again.
Indeed. This depressing table was released this week in the wake of Mr Shapps “We’re doing all we can to love and spend money on the railways, including taking the credit for every electrification scheme so far including Scotland” tweet. The UK is trundling below 40%. That puts us around the same level as Romania. So much for decarbonisation and Net Zero.
 

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snowball

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Just like other things done by the government lately, this very much looks like a case of "lets cause as much damage as we can before we're ousted" from the Tories. Boris won't last much longer, so hopefully this'll be meaningless in the long run as the next government will be more competent than the current government (would be difficult to be less competent!) and likely reverse it.
Maybe the Tory party will replace him by Javid and climate policy will be further weakened!

Edit: oops, I meant Rishi Sunak, not (Sajid) Javid.
 
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Starmill

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I don't see much point with Colton-Church Fenton if they are not going to carry it on to Neville Hill.
The complete route between Leeds and York via Church Fenton will be electrified, at some point around 2035.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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The IRP has not baked in any scheme - read P24. All the government has done is agreed to move the schemes to the next stage of development and evaluation.

The Treasury will still have their say before any scheme is finally approved.
Fair point although at least there is intent as its DofT document the broader proposal is just a recommendation in response for a plan to achieve net zero.
I would like to see hybrid battery diesel (with adblue systems and maybe running biofuels) ordered to replace the 150/3/6 fleets (with AC options where necessary) as there will be a lot of more rural lines where full electrification won't reach.
Indeed these can make a quicker impact than electrification schemes can and they need to get on with authorising either conversions or retrofits as the technology is well proven.
The complete route between Leeds and York via Church Fenton will be electrified, at some point around 2035.
Another 13 years makes it pointless this is an oven ready route with negligible structural issues due to the old structures being built with quadrupling in mind at the time.
 

Gathursty

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The complete route between Leeds and York via Church Fenton will be electrified, at some point around 2035.
Whilst it is good that it will be done, if that's the best time they can give for an important link on the ECML then it actually is quite a poor timescale - 13 years!!!!
 

JonathanH

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Whilst it is good that it will be done, if that's the best time they can give for an important link on the ECML then it actually is quite a poor timescale - 13 years!!!!
It isn't an important link on the ECML though. If it was it would have been electrified in 1991.
 

Starmill

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Another 13 years makes it pointless this is an oven ready route with negligible structural issues due to the old structures being built with quadrupling in mind at the time.
A variety of other enhancements need to be organised before this can be done though by the sounds of it.
 

Gathursty

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It isn't an important link on the ECML though. If it was it would have been electrified in 1991.
Leeds and York is an important link or rather important cities. If they aren't considered important, what on earth do the DfT consider important then?
 

Jozhua

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Not surprising that treasury is behind this. Sunak is possibly one of the most austerity-driven politicians we have seen. Do not think replacing Boris with him will be a good thing for this country.

The goal with the IRP for the treasury seems to have been to delay investment. To then cancel the proposed alternatives is the next step. Of course, this is a huge waste of money/resources, but the treasury seems to care more about the amount of money spent, than wether or not it is spent well.

Spending the money well would be by creating a consistent level of funding for rolling programmes of construction and upgrades. This way, the whole process can become more efficient as supply chains become established and talent is built up.

BTW, electrification is good for the railway, ignoring climate change benefits. There is a reason that railways have been electrified for well over 100 years. It is simply more efficient, once the setup costs have been paid.
 

Cowley

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Before we get too far into this and having read back through the posts, can we keep to the subject on here and not start using the thread to start having a debate about whether climate change is or isn’t happening please.

Thanks. :)
 

ScotGG

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Current depressed passenger numbers are still only.taking us back to 2011 levels - and there were plenty strong enough cases for electrification then.

Current UK passenger levels would be more than enough to green light electrification in much of the developed world.

To make it even more stupid, the UK can borrow 50 year bonds at next to nothing. The very time to invest for the long term.

Fully agree with those about that Sunak and the Treasury's short term thinking is very damaging in the long term.
 

dk1

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Current depressed passenger numbers are still only.taking us back to 2011 levels - and there were plenty strong enough cases for electrification then.

Current UK passenger levels would be more than enough to green light electrification in much of the developed world.

To make it even more stupid, the UK can borrow 50 year bonds at next to nothing. The very time to invest for the long term.
I just do not understand their logic.
 

InOban

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This news doesn't surprise me. The long delay to, and the filleting of, the IRP had the Treasury's sticky fingers all over it.

I thought that a large part of the Treasury was to relocate to the NE?
 
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