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Vaccine Progress, Approval, and Deployment

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Simon11

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Our local centre is offering walk ins for 18+ for the booster. Poppped out last friday and just had a 5 minute queue. No side effects at all 3 pzifers.

Seems we are ahead of the curve here in NW London and no GPs involved in running our centre, freeing them up!

Thanks to any volunteers on here :)
 
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Simon11

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Speaking from sort of the inside . No notice at all as far as GP's are concerned from what I can see.
Speaking with the staff at the centre I went to, their trouble was the fact it took so long to get the official paperwork to confirm they could open up the booster programme. They were all ready to go, but were waiting on written confirmation.

I'm not sure how GPs can claim they had no notice, it was kind of a given in the news?
 

LowLevel

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I wonder how much notice the NHS was given of last night's announcement.

As a 42 year old, I made my booster booking last week and was offered dates just before Christmas. Having read about side effects and not wanting to be ill at Christmas, I changed it to the first week of January. No earlier appointments were offered.

Now the website is broken, presumably due to demand.

The NHS has given 46.7m second doses and 23.1m boosters. Assuming everyone who's had a second dose wants a booster, that means delivering another 23m boosters before the new year. There are 19 days to achieve this - but that includes today, Christmas day, two Bank Holidays and New Years' Eve. Even with the best will in the world, with GPs abandoning almost all other work, the military helping and extended hours and extra centres, I don't see how this is remotely possible.
I managed to book mine yesterday for Wednesday, so I think it depends on the vaccine centre more than anything.
 
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Don't know about anyone we but I'm on my 22nd attempt to book online, keep being thrown back to the beginning of the process. Clearly it's buckling!
 

ChrisC

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Don't know about anyone we but I'm on my 22nd attempt to book online, keep being thrown back to the beginning of the process. Clearly it's buckling!
The problem is that Boris made his announcement last night in a pre recorded message but the infrastructure to carry it out is not yet in place.
 
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The problem is that Boris made his announcement last night in a pre recorded message but the infrastructure to carry it out is not yet in place.

As usual!

Those who had a third primary dose still can’t book boosters online. And have to wait for yet another letter confirming eligibility for a booster to go to a walk-in. As it took ~6 weeks for most to get letters for third primaries in the first place, it won’t surprise me if it’s February before those letters arrive this time. (Due to the first sh!tshow it’ll be January before most boosters start being due.)
 

island

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Secretary Javid has informed the Commons that CovidPasses will be expired early in the new year for those who have not yet had the booster.

A specific date was not mentioned just "once everyone has had a fair opportunity".

Why the heck is there even a booking system? All centres should be walk ins.
Not everyone has the time to speculatively go to a walk in centre and queue for an open-ended amount of time. Particularly outside major urban areas, where the nearest centre may be 10+ miles away.
 

Ediswan

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Secretary Javid has informed the Commons that CovidPasses will be expired early in the new year for those who have not yet had the booster.

A specific date was not mentioned just "once everyone has had a fair opportunity".
Picking up on that, what is shortest time in which someone could go from no vaccination to having the booster ? To keep it simpler (if not realistic), assume all doses can be obtained without delay.
 

Silver Cobra

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Picking up on that, what is shortest time in which someone could go from no vaccination to having the booster ? To keep it simpler (if not realistic), assume all doses can be obtained without delay.

IIRC, it's 8 weeks between doses 1 and 2, and three months between dose 2 and the booster, so that would be 20-21 weeks. On that basis, if an unvaccinated person went for their first dose tomorrow, they could be fully vaccinated by the end of April/beginning of May.
 

brad465

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Having a look at where the highest vaccination rates are in the world, I think there is a correlation (with exceptions) between the proportion of the population fully vaccinated and how big a country appears on the world stage, either in terms of overall economy size and/or how vocal they are. Some of the highest rates are in countries like Portugal, the UAE, Chile and South Korea, all countries who we don't hear a lot about in general and whose leaders are relatively quiet internationally. Lower rates, or were low until some sort of mandate/pass system came in, can be found in the US, Russia, Germany, France, and in some cases, the UK.

If this is a true correlation, perhaps the best way to get as many vaccinated as possible is to have a Government that is competent and focused on domestic matters, not one that has to look big on the international stage to distract the population from domestic problems.
 

Silver Cobra

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An interesting tid-bit at the end of the 'Whitty Warning' article on the BBC News website, regarding the suspension of the 15-minute waiting period after having a vaccination:


...
The UK's four chief medical officers have advised that the waiting period where people are monitored after getting a Pfizer or Moderna jab being used in the booster rollout - in case of an allergic reaction - should be temporarily suspended.

They said scrapping the 15-minute observation period would speed the process up at vaccination centres and allow more people to get boosters.

While I imagine for most people this change will be perfectly fine, I hope they do still allow people to choose to wait the 15 minutes if they want to, in case of a bad reaction.
 

ASharpe

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I went yesterday morning to get a booster at a walk in centre but went home after seeing the queue.

Later on walking with the wife through a shopping centre on the way to Spoons she spotted they were doing boosters in a closed shop unit with barely any queue.

Turns out that most of the walk in vaccine sites around Bradford are not actually listed on the NHS website.
 

jfollows

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Boris just said something along the lines of "we're abolishing the 15 minute delay after vaccination to make it more attractive to people to get vaccinated".
What nonsense!
The delay was there to protect my health, and was appropriate.
After my booster, I didn't bother waiting and nobody really cared anyway. I'm lucky that I've had three Covid vaccinations without side-effects.
So I don't mind not waiting because I don't think I need to any more.
But it wasn't any kind of disincentive to get vaccinated in the first place, nor would it be for the vast majority of people I surmise. Having waited in a queue for hours (I haven't had to, fortunately, but many have), having to stick around for a few minutes after the vaccination is just noise really.
 

DelayRepay

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Boris just said something along the lines of "we're abolishing the 15 minute delay after vaccination to make it more attractive to people to get vaccinated".
I thought the reason for abolishing the delay was to speed up the process and allow the centres to do more jabs.
 

jfollows

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I thought the reason for abolishing the delay was to speed up the process and allow the centres to do more jabs.
It wouldn't make any difference at either place I attended. It would save my GP from putting up a marquee in the car park again, no small inconvenience, but it had no effect on the number and speed of injections they were managing.
 

adc82140

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I thought the reason for abolishing the delay was to speed up the process and allow the centres to do more jabs.
It is. It's just that Boris has the inability to articulate this point. Shorter queues make going to a walk up centre more attractive. The wait is a serious bottleneck. They can jab you in 2 minutes flat, but the centre I went to had only 5 seats for the wait afterwards. Another option would be to stop the silly seat cleaning theatre. Covid does not soak through your trousers and go up your bum.

Incidentally, in the small print anyone who has ever had an allergic reaction to any drug, or nuts, insect bites etc will still be required to wait.
 

jfollows

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I can see that it would make some places, primarily pharmacies, more able to offer the vaccination.
I had a 'flu jab in my very local Boots pharmacy with no need to hang around afterwards, indeed they didn't have a space for it, and this may have been why I couldn't go there for my Covid booster. That said, the pharmacy I did attend for my booster didn't have space either; my partner stayed for the 15 minutes because he was driving but I simply left and walked to the station for my train home and nobody minded.

However it seems that whilst 4,733 pharmacies had submitted 5,376 expressions of interest in delivering Covid vaccinations by the end of September, only 30.7% of them had been accepted, the blame for which is being placed on the slow decision-making process.
“Community pharmacies can play a critical role in getting boosters into arms in the coming weeks while taking pressure off our GPs and NHS staff. So it is staggering that some pharmacies applied several times to help provide booster jabs only to be rejected, while others have waited a shocking 78 days to be approved.

“Ministers completely took their eye off the ball on the booster programme, which has left millions without vital protection. Sajid Javid must now get a grip of this crisis, ensure NHS England speeds up the application process and deals with these bureaucratic delays. Every pharmacy that has applied in the past should be given an opportunity to take part in this critical national effort.”
This tallies with my local experience of excellent GP-led vaccination in the first place followed by poor booster availability through local pharmacies. Some people would have found it hard to find a suitable location for them; I had to take the train to Cheadle Hulme which wasn't too serious an imposition although a waste of my time in one way. I believe that pharmacies make sense, especially without the need to hang around afterwards, and I recall that with the 'flu vaccination I had recently I had to complete a thorough questionnaire about allergies in advance as well as being asked again at the time of vaccination.

EDIT Full text of parliamentary question and answer from https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2021-12-06/87857/:

Question​


Daisy Cooper
Liberal Democrat
St Albans
Commons

To ask the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, how many community pharmacies were providing covid-19 vaccinations as of 3 December 2021.
This answer is the replacement for a previous holding answer.

Answer​


Maggie Throup
Conservative
Erewash
Commons

Answered on​

13 December 2021
Since 1 August, the shortest period from receipt of application to a pharmacy providing the COVID-19 vaccination service was 14 days, the longest was 78 days with an average of 44 days.
As of the end of September 2021, 4,733 contractors submitted 5,376 expressions of interest to take part in the booster vaccination programme, with 1,454 accepted. Expressions of interest which were not prioritised or designated will be considered again if requirements change and further expressions will be invited should further capacity be required. As of 3 December 2021, 1,336 community pharmacy vaccination sites were actively providing the service.
 
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adc82140

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Chris Whitty is fronting one of the creepiest adverts I've ever seen to get everyone to receive a booster jab:

Looks like they've grafted film of someone's mouth moving over a still photo of him. I'm sure they haven't but he's not exactly a natural. Jonathan Van Tam would have been a better choice. Or perhaps Mr Tumble.
 

jfollows

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It is. It's just that Boris has the inability to articulate this point. Shorter queues make going to a walk up centre more attractive. The wait is a serious bottleneck. They can jab you in 2 minutes flat, but the centre I went to had only 5 seats for the wait afterwards. Another option would be to stop the silly seat cleaning theatre. Covid does not soak through your trousers and go up your bum.

Incidentally, in the small print anyone who has ever had an allergic reaction to any drug, or nuts, insect bites etc will still be required to wait.
I agree.
The stated reason is simple enough (https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ith-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion:
Initial analysis from NHS England from England, which is likely to be similar to other nations, implies that under the conditions of a system working at full capacity (as is needed now) the 15-minute wait reduces throughput by 23%. This leads to over 500,000 people not getting a vaccine in the initial period who would otherwise have done so.

Even allowing for the relatively crude initial calculations here, the absolute number of people put at risk because they cannot get vaccinated due to the 15-minute wait (in the high tens of thousands or higher) is much greater than the more precisely calculated number who get anaphylaxis.

Since the mortality rate for COVID-19 is non-trivial (although not yet calculated for Omicron) the probability of harm through delay is, in the view of the CMOs substantially in excess of the probability of benefit from maintaining 15-minute waits under the current situation.

The CHM has also agreed that the 15-minute observation period for primary course, third doses and booster doses of mRNA vaccines could be waived on a temporary basis during the emergency response to the Omicron variant. They will keep this under close review.
But Boris can't say this, he has to try and turn it into something different, and he was just stupid in what he said. The evidence is that something like a 30% increase in throughput can be achieved by abolishing the wait, and that's going to lead to more vaccinations which will more than outweigh the problems caused by not waiting. Which is a good reason. Nothing to do with making the process more "attractive" although based on recent queues this might be a good side-effect.

PS Although I said that throughput wasn't affected by the wait at my GP, back in the first half of the year I think the major constraint was vaccine supply, my GP was only performing vaccination when it received supply which was intermittent although predictable. When supply of the vaccine isn't constrained then I'm happy to accept that removing the wait makes sense.
 
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35B

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I agree.
The stated reason is simple enough (https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ith-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion:

But Boris can't say this, he has to try and turn it into something different, and he was just stupid in what he said. The evidence is that something like a 30% increase in throughput can be achieved by abolishing the wait, and that's going to lead to more vaccinations which will more than outweigh the problems caused by not waiting. Which is a good reason. Nothing to do with making the process more "attractive" although based on recent queues this might be a good side-effect.

PS Although I said that throughput wasn't affected by the wait at my GP, back in the first half of the year I think the major constraint was vaccine supply, my GP was only performing vaccination when it received supply which was intermittent although predictable. When supply of the vaccine isn't constrained then I'm happy to accept that removing the wait makes sense.
I believe that analysis, but a friend volunteering at the local vaccination centre told me that the 15 minute wait was also introduced because they were having a very small number of incidents with people suffering shock reactions heading to the car park, and losing capacity as first aiders had to step away from vaccination to treating them.

This is in the context of a regional centre, where the waiting space and chairs are not a constraint on throughput - I'd absolutely agree about the impact at any of my local pharmacies.
 
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