Austria (and perhaps other European countries?) return to full lockdown

[DustyBin]

Even with furlough, it's only 80% government support. A lot of companies can't afford to pay their staff even 20% if they have no income, and expecting people to take a 20% pay cut with inflation running as high as it is is not acceptable.

It would be absolutely catastrophic I agree, but nothing would surprise me.

January may be a soft month for a lot of sectors, but one that springs to mind that will suffer is theatre. The Panto season for many pretty much props up the business for the rest of the year.

Yes it’s the same people who’ll be thrown under the bus yet again sadly.

I don't see a full lockdown, but the creeping of more Covid certification, and an unfortunate return to capacity limits, table service etc etc.

This is more likely, although I could actually see this being brought in prior to January as a precursor (it obviously won’t make any difference).

Omicron, infection wise, is going to be a short, sharp spike. By New Year infections will be dropping, and a lockdown in that case would be hard to sell. Similarly if hospitalisations follow the South African trend, there is no way a lockdown could be entertained.

You have to question whether that’s why they’re keeping Delta “in play”, which sounds like utter nonsense to me. I also worry about the level of ignorance within the wider population; there’s little critical thinking or scrutiny seemingly, even at this stage. The government will do what they want to do, and people will go along with it “if it keeps people safe” etc. etc. (yawn).

Would they though? Johnson wants to keep what little popularity he has remaining, a lockdown would kill that for sure. The amount of anger directed at a government filled with well-off, secure, well-connected people who will never have to suffer financially for the rest of their lives will be immense.

How many people though, after another two weeks of fear mongering and threats, will capitulate and say “it’s probably for the best”? The government are able to play us like fiddles in this regard, they know exactly what to say and do.

If there is a lockdown this winter, they'll use the same reasoning to implement a lockdown every winter.

Correct.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I quite agree, and it would be irresponsible without a furlough scheme in place. On the BBC website this morning there are already sectors crying out for government support again.

Lifelong Benefit business scroungers, can't wait for the Daily Vomit headlines.

Once people have tasted the 'easy life' of 'free government money forever' it is difficult to turn back to self reliance. Benefit claimants face this problem when coming off benefits onto a low paid job, when they may actually be worse off financially because all the other benefits disappear at the same time as 'unemployment benefit' (Universal Credit nowadays) eg housing benefit, free prescriptions and so on. That is a very simplistic, one paragraph explanation of a very complicated situation!

Also known as 'public sector funding junkies' by the pointy heads at The Treasury (it has been suggested). Organisations which depend on a constant supply of public funding to survive, constantly changing their operational model to meet the latest EU/UK grant scheme. Whatever the latest grant is for, that's what we are excellent at providing.

 

[yorksrob]

Lifelong Benefit business scroungers, can't wait for the Daily Vomit headlines.

Once people have tasted the 'easy life' of 'free government money forever' it is difficult to turn back to self reliance. Benefit claimants face this problem when coming off benefits onto a low paid job, when they may actually be worse off financially because all the other benefits disappear at the same time as 'unemployment benefit' (Universal Credit nowadays) eg housing benefit, free prescriptions and so on. That is a very simplistic, one paragraph explanation of a very complicated situation!

Also known as 'public sector funding junkies' by the pointy heads at The Treasury (it has been suggested). Organisations which depend on a constant supply of public funding to survive, constantly changing their operational model to meet the latest EU/UK grant scheme. Whatever the latest grant is for, that's what we are excellent at providing.

They're not "lifelong business scroungers" though are they. Most of them are perfectly viable businesses when the public feel free to go about their daily lives. The country will be a lot poorer economically and culturally if they're allowed to go to the wall because their busiest trading period has been screwed.

 

[Eyersey468]

They're not "lifelong business scroungers" though are they. Most of them are perfectly viable businesses when the public feel free to go about their daily lives. The country will be a lot poorer economically and culturally if they're allowed to go to the wall because their busiest trading period has been screwed.

Agree 100%

 

[Baxenden Bank]

They're not "lifelong business scroungers" though are they. Most of them are perfectly viable businesses when the public feel free to go about their daily lives. The country will be a lot poorer economically and culturally if they're allowed to go to the wall because their busiest trading period has been screwed.

Agree 100%

Of course they aren't, just as there are, as a proportion, very few lifelong benefit scroungers. They are neither lifelong, nor scroungers but that does not prevent certain elements of the press presenting them as such.

The reaction to Virgin Atlantic asking for a large wad last year was interesting compared to the general support for furlough and the various business support measures.

 

[Bikeman78]

I was chatting to a copper yesterday here in the UK, and he told me they are planning for a January lockdown.

With the recent ‘socialise carefully’ rhetoric, it seems they are getting ready to tell the public that they didn’t behave themselves and that we now need a January lockdown. January is probably the softest month to implement a lockdown for the government as even though people are fed up of lockdowns, many are skint in January and the weather isn’t great, so it’s the best opportunity for the government to implement one without too much fuss.

What would it achieve though, apart from screwing hospitality and transport again? Most people are not scared any more. Roads still busy, shopping streets busy, even the buses are still full at some times of day. If people can't go out, they'll visit people at home instead. So people will still mix.

 

[Class 33]

Another wreckless damaging lockdown is absolutely NOT needed or justified, whatever time of year!

 

[yorksrob]

What would it achieve though, apart from screwing hospitality and transport again? Most people are not scared any more. Roads still busy, shopping streets busy, even the buses are still full at some times of day. If people can't go out, they'll visit people at home instead. So people will still mix.

It would be pretty pointless, even more at that stage than any other, although I wouldn't underestimate how much the general public have been spooked by the talk of tidal waves etc.

Incidentally on the BBC, the president of South Africa is attributing the apparently milder manifestation as likely being due to vaccination and naturally induced immunity. Given our high levels of vaccination and naturally induced immunity, that must surely bode well for the health service not being overwhelmed.

As for the police, i'd be surprised if they weren't planning for a January lockdown as it's their job to be prepared for such eventualities.

 

[Iskra]

What would it achieve though, apart from screwing hospitality and transport again? Most people are not scared any more. Roads still busy, shopping streets busy, even the buses are still full at some times of day. If people can't go out, they'll visit people at home instead. So people will still mix.

I agree. It might be busy, but it isn’t as busy as normal at this time of year. Even a footfall drop of around 10% (what I’m seeing) could still be enough to topple some businesses after what has been an extremely challenging year.

 

[bramling]

Would they though? Johnson wants to keep what little popularity he has remaining, a lockdown would kill that for sure. The amount of anger directed at a government filled with well-off, secure, well-connected people who will never have to suffer financially for the rest of their lives will be immense.

If there is a lockdown this winter, they'll use the same reasoning to implement a lockdown every winter.

It will come down to whether Boris is more frit of Starmer / Drakeford / Sturgeon / SAGE, or his own party.

The scales may well have tipped in favour of the latter, but we must remember Johnson is fundamentally weak, and not particularly adept at analysing information. Notice the difference between some of May’s recent analytical speeches on Covid, versus anything Johnson comes out with, where it’s either batted to the scientists, or in their absence we get Peppa Pig type stuff.

Bearing in mind the above, I’d say it remains quite possible Johnson may be more frit of the personal consequences which could arise from disregarding SAGE, even if that puts him on a collision course with the 1922 Committee.

Whatever one thinks about Blair, one thing in his defence (and I’m absolutely no fan of Blair!) is that I’d say he genuinely believed Iraq was the right thing, and was therefore prepared to defend his position. Johnson doesn’t have that level of conviction, which is why he crumbles so easily. He would melt if put in the position of having to defend his actions.

 

[HSTEd]

Ultimately the public have decided not to go to pubs and restaurants etc this winter.

That is just the market in action - the public can't decide to stop using services then just expect them to still be there when they change their mind later.

This is the world they will have created, and no point spending many billions trying to deny this new world that they have forged.

 

[bramling]

Ultimately the public have decided not to go to pubs and restaurants etc this winter.

That is just the market in action - the public can't decide to stop using services then just expect them to still be there when they change their mind later.

This is the world they will have created, and no point spending many billions trying to deny this new world that they have forged.

In the same way we’ve created numerous other aspects of our new world.

What did we think was going to happen?

 

[yorksrob]

Ultimately the public have decided not to go to pubs and restaurants etc this winter.

That is just the market in action - the public can't decide to stop using services then just expect them to still be there when they change their mind later.

This is the world they will have created, and no point spending many billions trying to deny this new world that they have forged.

Free market twaddle. The public have been spooked into not going to pound and restaurants. Those who spooked them should make provision to ride those businesses over

 

[HSTEd]

What did we think was going to happen?

That they could have a lockdown with unlimited paid leave, then go hide each winter and when they decide they don't want to hide any more the old world will be there waiting for them.

 

[bramling]

Free market twaddle. The public have been spooked into not going to pound and restaurants. Those who spooked them should make provision to ride those businesses over

There is, of course, nothing stopping people making a donation to businesses when they cancel their Christmas party. Indeed it is rather unfair to cancel a booking at short notice, knowing full well the business will have already incurred costs like getting supplies in, and expecting the business to bear the full cost.

I cancelled a couple of (attraction) bookings in September, when we called off a trip, primarily because of the duller than hoped-for weather. With it being at rather short notice, I told both the attractions to keep the proceeds as a gesture of goodwill. As it happens, in both cases they were very happy about it, and in both cases said they’d be happy for us to visit at a future date without having to pay again. Everyone happy.

Again, people can’t just keep expecting the government to pick up the costs of all this. How about supporting the business they were planning to patronise, rather than pocketing the money and (presumably) buying 6-packs from Tesco’s instead? The only exception I’d make is hotels where a premium tends to be charged for refundable bookings, so I feel less guilty cancelling in that situation.

 

[yorksrob]

There is, of course, nothing stopping people making a donation to businesses when they cancel their Christmas party. Indeed it is rather unfair to cancel a booking at short notice, knowing full well the business will have already incurred costs like getting supplies in, and expecting the business to bear the full cost.

I cancelled a couple of (attraction) bookings in September, when we called off a trip, primarily because of the duller than hoped-for weather. With it being at rather short notice, I told both the attractions to keep the proceeds as a gesture of goodwill. As it happens, in both cases they were very happy about it, and in both cases said they’d be happy for us to visit at a future date without having to pay again. Everyone happy.

Again, people can’t just keep expecting the government to pick up the costs of all this. How about supporting the business they were planning to patronise, rather than pocketing the money and (presumably) buying 6-packs from Tesco’s instead? The only exception I’d make is hotels where a premium tends to be charged for refundable bookings, so I feel less guilty cancelling in that situation.

That would be a good gesture, although it would take a lot of people doing it to have an effect. My view is that if the Government has seen fit to cause a market distortion by calling on people not to use businesses, it should correct that distortion directly. If the public don't like that cost, they should take it out on the government at the election.


For myself, I'm not a big party goer, but I've still attended the gatherings I was planning to and they'd literally have to close the pubs to stop me going to them (apologies for the gap in posting - was going through Totley tunnel).

 

[bramling]

That would be a good gesture, although it would take a lot of people doing it to have an effect. My view is that if the Government has seen for to cause a market distortion by calling on people not to use businesses, it should correct that distortion directly. If the public don't like that cost, they should take it out on the government at the election.

At the end of the day, at this point, it’s still up to people.

People were happy to stand on their doorsteps and bang pots for the NHS last year. How about put their money where their mouth is if they want hospitality to still be there for them next year?

Having said that, walking through my town last night and this morning, I didn’t see much evidence of hospitality being empty. On the contrary. Indeed we did make the cynical observation that the self-same people sitting round restaurant tables would likely in many cases be the same types giving me dirty looks in Sainsbury’s tonight!…

 

[MikeWM]

Having said that, walking through my town last night and this morning, I didn’t see much evidence of hospitality being empty. On the contrary. Indeed we did make the cynical observation that the self-same people sitting round restaurant tables would likely in many cases be the same types giving me dirty looks in Sainsbury’s tonight!…

The new Spiderman film is on 5 out of 6 screens at my local cinema. It opened on Wednesday, and both then and yesterday, and indeed tonight, it is effectively sold-out - the only previous time that has happened since March 2020 was for James Bond a few months back.

 

[greyman42]

Ultimately the public have decided not to go to pubs and restaurants etc this winter.

Not where i live they haven't.

 

[DustyBin]

Not where i live they haven't.

Make no mistake, pretty much all of hospitality is taking a hit to an extent, but it’s city centre venues that are suffering the most. The kinds of places that host office Christmas parties etc. (I’m sure you know the ones).

 

[greyman42]

Make no mistake, pretty much all of hospitality is taking a hit to an extent, but it’s city centre venues that are suffering the most. The kinds of places that host office Christmas parties etc. (I’m sure you know the ones).

I live in York and the pubs are still very busy.

 

[DustyBin]

I live in York and the pubs are still very busy.

I imagine they are; York is rammed with traditional pubs and benefits from having a large catchment area full of people who just want to go for a few drinks (I say few, I rarely leave sober!). We were out last night in Newcastle and some places were very quiet having lost large bookings; as I said it depends on the type of venue.

 

[bramling]

I live in York and the pubs are still very busy.

Every evening this week I've had a walk through my town centre in the mid-evening. No sign of hospitality being shunned, everywhere varying between busy and very busy. Car parks visibly full to capacity, which one wouldn't normally see on a mid-week weekday.

Naturally I can't say whether office parties have been cancelled - though with my town being "Work From Home Central" I'd be surprised if many were ever planned here.

London may be a different story, but I have to say I'd be surprised if it were from what I've seen over recent weeks.

 

[kristiang85]

Last night we decided to eat out in a local pub to give them support. Happily, unlike my experience of pubs in London during the week, it was rammed, and the landlord seemed pretty stressed at how busy it was.

I'm going back into London to go to more pubs today and see some friends. I do love a good pub and I'm not going to be scared off showing them some support by the potential of getting a bad cold.

 

[philosopher]

The Dutch government is considering a lockdown over Christmas according to The Guardian

Covid live: Germany tightens restrictions on travel from UK — as it happened

Follow all the latest developments on coronavirus from around the world

www.theguardian.com

An announcement on a strict Christmas lockdown is expected in the Netherlands, with the government expected to close everything but essential shops.

The government is meeting on Saturday with its health experts who have recommended the closure of all non-essential shops, schools, bars, restaurants and other public venues.

The Dutch national broadcaster, NOS, and the news agency ANP cited government sources saying a press conference announcing the new measures would be held at 7pm. However, a spokesman for the health ministry, Axel Dees, declined to comment on any proposed measures or the timing of any press conference.

It is only days since the government ordered that the 5pm to 5am closure of bars, restaurants and most stores, introduced in late November, would continue until 14 January.

 

[brad465]

The Dutch government is considering a lockdown over Christmas according to The Guardian

Covid live: Germany tightens restrictions on travel from UK — as it happened

Follow all the latest developments on coronavirus from around the world

www.theguardian.com

Considering reported cases are going down in the Netherlands, I have no idea how they could have come to this conclusion:

Netherlands COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Netherlands Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

 

[philosopher]

Considering reported cases are going down in the Netherlands, I have no idea how they could have come to this conclusion:

Netherlands COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Netherlands Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

View attachment 107242

They are using Omicron as a justification.

 

[Mag_seven]

They are using Omicron as a justification.

It will get to them eventually - this is just kicking the can down the road - again!

 

[brad465]

The Dutch have already seen riots in response to recent restrictions, this next lockdown, coupled with the fact cases are dropping for now, will make for an interesting watch for any further rioting as a result.

And of course with many countries trying restrictions again, this quote is worth recalling from C.S. Lewis: "When the whole world is running towards a cliff, he who is running in the opposite direction appears to have lost his mind."

 

[Class 33]

That's quite a drop in cases over in the Netherlands. Absolutely bonkers beyond belief that they're going into a full "tough lockdown" and using Omicron as an excuse.