Omicron restrictions in Wales

[Butts]

A primary act of parliament can override any devolution provision, just as it can with any local authority matter.

it would be viewed almost as a coup d'état in relation to this matter and politically untenable.

 

[21C101]

it would be viewed almost as a coup d'état in relation to this matter and politically untenable.

I'm not sure it would any more, especially regarding the Welsh Assembly, which sits on very shaky foundations.

And unlike the Scottish Border, which runs across a wilderness extending especially north of it separating the two countries, which have always been two countries, the Welsh one cuts through well populated areas including part of urban Chester (so practical arguments for westminster deciding such health matters)

Part of the Welsh border is questionable (alleged "annexation" of Monmouthshire) and the borderndivides what has been a single legal entity since time immorial.

The Welsh assembly also only passed a referendum to set up in the first place on a wafer thin margin on a turnout of barely 50%

 

[35B]

I'm not sure it would any more, especially regarding the Welsh Assembly, which sits on very shaky foundations.

And unlike the Scottish Border, which runs across a wilderness extending especially north of it separating the two countries, which have always been two countries, the Welsh one cuts through well populated areas including part of urban Chester (so practical arguments for westminster deciding such health matters)

Part of the Welsh border is questionable (alleged "annexation" of Monmouthshire) and the borderndivides what has been a single legal entity since time immorial.

The Welsh assembly also only passed a referendum to set up in the first place on a wafer thin margin on a turnout of barely 50%

All of which may well be true, but for a UK government to use pandemic legislation to change the constitutional settlement would be a very bold step indeed. It would also cause significant organisational impact at a time when focus should be on the immediate crisis.

 

[75A]

The Welsh can complain all they like, but they need to remember who voted their Government in.

Same as me with Boris.

 

[island]

So what happens if you live in Wales and work in England?

The offence is someone in Wales leaving home to go to work where they could work from home. So a person would be committing an offence in Wales by leaving home to go and work in England if they could practicably work from home.

The reverse (living in England and going to work in person in Wales) is permitted.

 

[21C101]

The offence is someone in Wales leaving home to go to work where they could work from home. So a person would be committing an offence in Wales by leaving home to go and work in England if they could practicably work from home.

The reverse (living in England and going to work in person in Wales) is permitted.

However it is presubably quite legal to leave home and drive to Joes Roadside cafe just over the border and after a coffee and bacon roll spontaneously decide to go onto work.

And still these people get elected.

 

[island]

However it is presubably quite legal to leave home and drive to Joes Roadside cafe just over the border and after a coffee and bacon roll spontaneously decide to go onto work.

And still these people get elected.

I expect the WFM will before very long bring back the prohibition of entering or leaving Wales without reasonable excuse.

 

[Bikeman78]

I expect the WFM will before very long bring back the prohibition of entering or leaving Wales without reasonable excuse.

Good luck with that. Little attempt at enforcement last time around. I made it to Clacton without question.

I see that the theatres have been shafted by Drakeford's rules. They are all shutting down. I think restrictions will be a tough sell for the public this time. Everywhere is still busy. Supermarkets are packed. Winter Wonderland is packed, city shopping streets busy. If people were scared of Covid, this would not be the case.

I wonder how the railways will cope. Will this scupper driving training in Wales again?

 

[Ediswan]

The reverse (living in England and going to work in person in Wales) is permitted.

Is it ? The wording of the regulation is:

no person may leave the place where they are living, or remain away from that place

They would be 'remaining away' from home and working, whilst in Wales.

 

[philosopher]

I expect the WFM will before very long bring back the prohibition of entering or leaving Wales without reasonable excuse.

One think I have noticed about Mr Drakeford is that for some reason he seems to really dislike people moving around. Last autumn I seemed to remember he banned people from leaving their local council area without a reasonable excuse

 

[island]

Is it ? The wording of the regulation is:

They would be 'remaining away' from home and working, whilst in Wales.

Good point.

 

[Hadders]

Healthcare is devolved to Scotland and Wales, the thinking being if they control it then Westminster can't take the blame if it goes wrong.

A decent strategy for normal times, and no-one could've seen a pandemic when it was set up.

 

[21C101]

One think I have noticed about Mr Drakeford is that for some reason he seems to really dislike people moving around. Last autumn I seemed to remember he banned people from leaving their local council area without a reasonable excuse

It is common with hardline socialists.

In East Germany if you wanted to drive to the coast for the day you had to apply and get permission from the local party, a bit like applying for a possession on the railway.

 

[farleigh]

Surely Drakeford must now be incredibly unpopular or is there a large base of support for these restrictions in Wales?

 

[Class800]

Sadly the latter I feel - Wales is quite different than England, I work with a Welsh person and he is totally in favour, although it's one person

 

[Dai Corner]

Surely Drakeford must now be incredibly unpopular or is there a large base of support for these restrictions in Wales?

I've seen even Labour Party members aghast at the banning of spectators at sporting events.

However, not that many actually go to them, or are otherwise affected by the new restrictions. And who wouldn't want to work from home if they could?

 

[Furryanimal]

Surely Drakeford must now be incredibly unpopular or is there a large base of support for these restrictions in Wales?

if you read the Wales online comments section then he is -and definitely is with me as i’ve lost my rugby again and my new year concerts( already rearranged from last year) are dead in the water.
As that is my life i have no reason to like him.
And a Wales online journalist is now questioning the rationale behind his decision making.
But i have no idea what the silent majority think....those who occupy forums tend to be at the two extremes of opinion.
But if there is no relaxation at the next review we will see what happens.
Welsh rugby can’t sustain a crowdless six nations....and without WRU money i fear many clubs won’t survive.
We have a situation where semi-pro and amateur clubs have not been been stopped from playing but can’t afford to play without gate money and hospitality.
Not so bad for clubs whose clubhouse is busy as part of the community but for others disastrous as Saturday is when they have money coming in.

 

[Bikeman78]

Sadly the latter I feel - Wales is quite different than England, I work with a Welsh person and he is totally in favour, although it's one person

What does your Welsh colleague do? Do they go out to work or work at home? What do they do in their free time; just sit in the house? I know of people that claim to have done very little since March last year. Worked at home throughout, not seen their parents, never gone out to a pub. Not much of a life is it? They aren't elderly, they are seemingly healthy people in their 30s. Given that they seem content to hide away, why wish restrictions on other people? What difference will it make?

I feel that the public in general is far more relaxed. Lots of places are still busy. I've been out this morning, the roads are very busy. Last year it was common so see empty buses and trains. I think a lot of people will be angry if the Six Nations is played behind closed doors for the second year running. It will be especially absurd if people can attend in Twickenham but not in Wales or Scotland.

There's an interesting item, in the Guardian of all places, that suggests people have had enough. At the start of the year there was a way out. Now there isn't, so what's the point? Essentially if we need restrictions now then the Government is admitting we'll need them for years whilst the NHS trains more people to clear the backlog of patients. Will the public support that?

Public support for lockdown measures is disintegrating - a new approach is needed

Throughout Britain’s Covid emergency, the public have overwhelmingly supported drastic but necessary measures to combat the virus – even at the cost of their personal freedom. As the Alpha variant threatened to cripple the NHS in January, 85% of people supported lockdown – as near universal as you are likely to achieve in a democratic society – with only 11% opposed, and of those just over half opposed strongly.

From the beginning, the prevailing criticism among the electorate has been that Boris Johnson’s administration has been too slow and soft in reacting: in the first weeks of the crisis, two-thirds believed it should have acted faster.

Yet since Omicron revived the Covid threat, that consensus has collapsed. Last week, just 23% of adults in England supported closing pubs and restaurants, 26% backed not allowing people to meet indoors with people outside their household, and there was an even split on large sporting and entertainment events. Those numbers may shift more in favour of restrictions as cases continue to rise, but the difference from last year is stark. The public’s often militant support for authoritarian measures has disintegrated.

 

[Class800]

What does your Welsh colleague do? Do they go out to work or work at home? What do they do in their free time; just sit in the house?

He works from home. No idea about his private life, although he does live with his girlfriend. 30s probably

 

[Bikeman78]

He works from home. No idea about his private life, although he does live with his girlfriend. 30s probably

Fair enough. I still don't get why those that are happy to restrict themselves want everyone restricted too. Covid isn't going away. I don't have much of a social life but I don't seek to restrict other people from having one. If I had worked at home for 21 months I would have completely lost the plot by now. I'm not being flippant, I genuinely mean it.

 

[Dai Corner]

Fair enough. I still don't get why those that are happy to restrict themselves want everyone restricted too. Covid isn't going away. I don't have much of a social life but I don't seek to restrict other people from having one. If I had worked at home for 21 months I would have completely lost the plot by now. I'm not being flippant, I genuinely mean it.

Absolutely. There's nothing to stop people locking themselves down, getting a job which allows them to work at home, never socialising and ordering everything they need online if they want to.

 

[Eyersey468]

Fair enough. I still don't get why those that are happy to restrict themselves want everyone restricted too. Covid isn't going away. I don't have much of a social life but I don't seek to restrict other people from having one. If I had worked at home for 21 months I would have completely lost the plot by now. I'm not being flippant, I genuinely mean it.

Same here, fortunately for my sanity it is impossible for me to work from home.

 

[Richard Scott]

Surely Drakeford must now be incredibly unpopular or is there a large base of support for these restrictions in Wales?

The people I know are generally unhappy with his decisions, last year they were largely in favour so opinions are changing.

 

[philosopher]

What does your Welsh colleague do? Do they go out to work or work at home? What do they do in their free time; just sit in the house? I know of people that claim to have done very little since March last year. Worked at home throughout, not seen their parents, never gone out to a pub. Not much of a life is it? They aren't elderly, they are seemingly healthy people in their 30s. Given that they seem content to hide away, why wish restrictions on other people? What difference will it make?

If all restrictions go and Covid becomes an non news story, or a very minor news story in the way flu is in most years, then people will no longer be able to use Covid as an excuse to avoid doing certain activities, such as going to the office or a family do that you do not really want to go to. For example for many people I know, even one day a week in the office is a day too many.

If Covid ceases to be an issue many, perhaps most companies will expect their staff attend the office at least once or twice a week. Similarity it would no longer be acceptable to use Covid as an excuse to avoid social activities you don’t want to attend, if in 2019 you said you were not attending a party because you might pick up the flu from the party you probably would have got funny looks.

Therefore for many, I think they want this whole Covid saga to continue as long as possible as it is a perfect excuse to avoid certain activities they wish to avoid.

 

[nw1]

I expect the WFM will before very long bring back the prohibition of entering or leaving Wales without reasonable excuse.

Oh yes, the Wales Hard Border. And you thought Brexit was bad.

 

[duncanp]

Oh yes, the Wales Hard Border. And you thought Brexit was bad.

No doubt people in Wales will think of an "reasonable excuse" reason to visit Chester, Whitchurch, Oswestry and Shrewsbury etc, and just happen to drop into a pub or nightclub whilst they are there.

I see Shrewsbury Town FC are playing at home on 29th December and 2nd January. They might get a few extra supporters from West of Offas Dyke, where going to a football match is now illegal.

 

[Dai Corner]

No doubt people in Wales will think of an "reasonable excuse" reason to visit Chester, Whitchurch, Oswestry and Shrewsbury etc, and just happen to drop into a pub or nightclub whilst they are there.

I see Shrewsbury Town FC are playing at home on 29th December and 2nd January. They might get a few extra supporters from West of Offas Dyke, where going to a football match is now illegal.

I suspect Welsh football clubs, which play in the English league, will be having more away fixtures.

 

[duncanp]

I suspect Welsh football clubs, which play in the English league, will be having more away fixtures.

And Berwick Rangers FC, who play in the Scottish league but whose ground is located in England, will be having more home fixtures.

 

[duncanp]

It's going to be a little awkward if the current restrictions are in place by the time the Six Nations rugby starts, or to be more accurate by 26th February 2022, when England are due to play their first match at Twickenham.

Scotland v France at Murrayfield at 2:15pm played to an empty stadium, then England v Wales at Twickenham at 4:45pm played to a capacity crowd.

That isn't going to make Nicola Sturgeon look very good, nor Mark Drakeford come to that.

Can't help feeling the restrictions in Scotland will be eased by that date once Nicola Sturgeon realises how embarrassing it will be for her.

And I'm sure the Welsh fans will appreciate being able to come to London for the weekend and actually going to all the pubs in Twickenham High Street first a sports stadium and seeing the match in person.

 

[Cowley]

The subject of boundary changes has come up in a couple of threads recently and we actually have dedicated one here to discuss it all (it’s quite interesting actually ).

Anyway, it’d be good to keep this one on its original topic which was about the new restrictions in Wales from now please.

Thanks!