Hornby 2022 range

[Sad Sprinter]

Does anyone have any wishes or predictions for the 2022 range? I haven't heard anything about it anywhere, but as usual I'm holding out for a Southern Region EMU of some kind.

 

[Iskra]

My only realistic prediction (and hope) is that the excellent-looking new Gresley Teaks are released in BR Maroon or Carmine and Cream.

I'd like to see some more modern-image stuff from Hornby, but it doesn't seem all that likely.

 

[Peter C]

I keep hoping for something modern-image (preferably a new model), but I doubt it'll happen anytime soon. A re-do of the Class 466 would be nice, or maybe a 465? A 377 would also be lovely, as would another run of 800s, maybe an 802? Oh, and slightly lower prices would be a start

-Peter

EDIT: I realise this is just me saying "I'd like these please" but the first post mentions "wishes" so I guess that's alright!

 

[RichJF]

None of the mainstream manufacturers seem interested in post 2000 Southern region stuff sadly.

There's a few 3D printing specialist who offer bodykits & conversion tools for Bachmann 170s, but other than that it's a barren wilderness!

 

[Sad Sprinter]

None of the mainstream manufacturers seem interested in post 2000 Southern region stuff sadly.

There's a few 3D printing specialist who offer bodykits & conversion tools for Bachmann 170s, but other than that it's a barren wilderness!

Sadly that's true. Bachmann is I suppose, but I don't think we're ever going to get a mass produced 455, 465 or what have you. Bratchell Models is still there, but far to pricey for me and I'm not sure if I'm confident enough to 'kit' it all together.

 

[reddragon]

Something that will arrive late, not as good as expected and you will have your order cancelled so will have to re-order from Hornby at a premium price.

For Hornby just stick to something reviewed, available and a fair price / discount.

Try Accurascale, much better! Their 2022 range is said to be brilliant and customer service is the best in the industry!

 

[stonojnr]

None of the mainstream manufacturers seem interested in post 2000 Southern region stuff sadly.

There's a few 3D printing specialist who offer bodykits & conversion tools for Bachmann 170s, but other than that it's a barren wilderness!

similar to the treatment of the Anglia region, but I cant see anyone ever making the Stadler Flirts in the UK, at least when we had trains that other regions had used before there was always that hope it was just a new paintjob away from a release, now weve got completely bespoke trains theres little chance at all of it happening.

 

[43055]

Some modern stuff that I can think of (would like):
HST's: Colas rail - choice of Blue, Red and Purple, Staycation express, EMR 43102/274 (or any other EMT/R).
More 66's: Was there a eco livery on one this year?
90: The backbone of Brittan one
153's: TFW maybe EMR/Network Rail
390: 390121 in the climate change livery
800's: TPE, Hull trains, LUMO depending on tooling.

 

[wireforever]

I would like Hornby to add working lights to their diesel and electric models that don'e have them I know it's a big ask.I have Lima class 67's with working lights not a patch on the Hornby class 60 or Dapol class 68

 

[Peter C]

This seems the best place to put this - looking on Twitter today, looks like Hornby have put up the prices of (at least some of) their models. From the replies to https://twitter.com/hornby/status/1477927869259169795:

Are you taking the p*ss with this, prices have gone up AGAIN?

I must admit, I've not been checking on the prices of Hornby's models enough (for 'enough', read 'at all') to see if these are massive increases, but from what I remember of the prices before, these are definitely not-insignificant. I wonder if this is indicative of what we'll be seeing from Hornby in their 2022 range? From what I can see on Twitter, these are increases on top of the 10% increases from last year (the reason for which escapes me but I know it was something to do with the pandemic).

-Peter

 

[Cowley]

This seems the best place to put this - looking on Twitter today, looks like Hornby have put up the prices of (at least some of) their models. From the replies to https://twitter.com/hornby/status/1477927869259169795:


I must admit, I've not been checking on the prices of Hornby's models enough (for 'enough', read 'at all') to see if these are massive increases, but from what I remember of the prices before, these are definitely not-insignificant. I wonder if this is indicative of what we'll be seeing from Hornby in their 2022 range? From what I can see on Twitter, these are increases on top of the 10% increases from last year (the reason for which escapes me but I know it was something to do with the pandemic).

-Peter

This made me chuckle:

At least dick Turpin used to wear a mask

 

[43055]

This seems the best place to put this - looking on Twitter today, looks like Hornby have put up the prices of (at least some of) their models. From the replies to https://twitter.com/hornby/status/1477927869259169795:


I must admit, I've not been checking on the prices of Hornby's models enough (for 'enough', read 'at all') to see if these are massive increases, but from what I remember of the prices before, these are definitely not-insignificant. I wonder if this is indicative of what we'll be seeing from Hornby in their 2022 range? From what I can see on Twitter, these are increases on top of the 10% increases from last year (the reason for which escapes me but I know it was something to do with the pandemic).

-Peter

Not again. The prices went up last summer as well. From the looks of things this is on every model not just a few. Comparting to Kernow's website which looks like they still have the old prices:

New Hornby RRP - Old Hornby RRP
390: 302.49 - 274.99
801: 477.99 - 434.49
HST: 381.49 - 346.49
And to show it's everything:
Mk3: 42.49 - 40.75 (the sliding door mk3's were 34.99 when new!)
390 coach: 54.49 - 44.99

This made me chuckle:

Did make me smile as well!

 

[Iskra]

Brexit
Higher Import costs
Labour Shortages, possibly meaning Hornby have to pay higher wages
Increasing price of fuel, and HGV drivers pay
Inflation and interest rates rising
Increased costs of materials, including cardboard for shipping which means the price has gone up.
Presumably rising wages in China

All these things add up. I think that as a purchaser, you need to choose more and more carefully and do careful and thorough price research. Who even pays Hornby's RRP for anything anyway; those prices are pretty much just fantasy prices to make you think you're getting a good deal paying a slightly lower price at x models...

 

[IanXC]

Am I right in thinking that Hornby have still only released 5 car LNER Azuma sets, which carry 9 car numbers?

 

[tbtc]

Brexit
Higher Import costs
Labour Shortages, possibly meaning Hornby have to pay higher wages
Increasing price of fuel, and HGV drivers pay
Inflation and interest rates rising
Increased costs of materials, including cardboard for shipping which means the price has gone up.
Presumably rising wages in China

All these things add up. I think that as a purchaser, you need to choose more and more carefully and do careful and thorough price research. Who even pays Hornby's RRP for anything anyway; those prices are pretty much just fantasy prices to make you think you're getting a good deal paying a slightly lower price at x models...

These are all valid points, and I'm not arguing with them as reasons why we need to pay more for the same quality of product

But it feels worth mentioning that one reason why they are charging best part of a hundred pounds per carriage is that they feel that the market can sustain these prices - this isn't just a 2021 thing, it feels like they've been going up above inflation year after year for some time now - but the people who buy them seem happy to continue to do so - whilst some other industries/ manufacturers/ products cut corners or trim things back ("shrinkflation" etc), Hornby seem confident that they know how elastic the demand is - people will continue to keep paying good money for a high quality "replica" rather than making cheaper "toys"

 

[pdeaves]

manufacturers/ products cut corners or trim things back ("shrinkflation" etc), Hornby seem confident that they know how elastic the demand is

Would an example of 'shrinkflation' be reintroducing the short length Mark 3?

 

[Cowley]

Would an example of 'shrinkflation' be reintroducing the short length Mark 3?

Everyone should go for N gauge. That’s sensible shrinkflation.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Everyone should go for N gauge. That’s sensible shrinkflation.

Funnily enough I nearly went for N when I rejoined the hobby due to being able to fit more in the same space, but decided that I'd struggle with the smaller scale (and wouldn't be able to collaborate with my brother).

TT would be a happy medium I suppose, but nothing has been made (for the UK at least) in that scale for a number of decades. I have a few items from my late dad's childhood set, but as all the stuff available is steam era and very dated, it wasn't for me.

The answer is, I guess, to stick to pre-owned stuff for the most part.

 

[75A]

These are all valid points, and I'm not arguing with them as reasons why we need to pay more for the same quality of product

But it feels worth mentioning that one reason why they are charging best part of a hundred pounds per carriage is that they feel that the market can sustain these prices - this isn't just a 2021 thing, it feels like they've been going up above inflation year after year for some time now - but the people who buy them seem happy to continue to do so - whilst some other industries/ manufacturers/ products cut corners or trim things back ("shrinkflation" etc), Hornby seem confident that they know how elastic the demand is - people will continue to keep paying good money for a high quality "replica" rather than making cheaper "toys"

Since retirement 4 years ago, I've had an itch to build a 00 railway, but the prices seem high to me and I'm resisting the plunge.
It's not that I haven't got the money, far from it, just feel that I'm getting taken for a mug. Over £300 for a loco for example.
With my Brighton background and affection for O.V.S Bulleid, there's plenty about, but....

 

[reddragon]

Everyone should go for N gauge. That’s sensible shrinkflation.

Imagine how much that would cost to fill up my baseboards!

N costs more!

 

[32475]

I was pondering the latest Hornby prices and the various reasons for price increases. It makes me wonder if the economics of manufacturing are such that Hornby would consider producing in the UK once more rather than sourcing from the other side of the planet. I don’t say this from the sentimental view point but from that of economics, logistics, labour, market and environmental.

 

[43055]

Am I right in thinking that Hornby have still only released 5 car LNER Azuma sets, which carry 9 car numbers?

The celebrating Scotland one will be a 9 car as a 5 car. The other set looks to be correctly numbered as a 5 car set from the engine shed pictures from last year.

 

[BRblue33]

Hornby rely on there name to sale there models. They need to focus on there Quality control first . Like the Mazak rot for one. The last new model i purchased came of the first set of points as the back to back was out.

 

[reddragon]

I think put basically - Accurascale is better for top end quality & Heljan for beating railroad!

 

[75A]

Hornby rely on there name to sale there models. They need to focus on there Quality control first . Like the Mazak rot for one. The last new model i purchased came of the first set of points as the back to back was out.

I've got to say the television series has put me off using Hornby.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Brexit
Higher Import costs
Labour Shortages, possibly meaning Hornby have to pay higher wages
Increasing price of fuel, and HGV drivers pay
Inflation and interest rates rising
Increased costs of materials, including cardboard for shipping which means the price has gone up.
Presumably rising wages in China

I can't agree with you there. Several of their recent business practices reek of just wanting to make more money.

 

[Peter C]

There is a case to be made for Hornby's price rises not necessarily being particularly relevant to the majority of modellers (as has been mentioned). However, the thing to consider is that a lot of people are going to buy directly from Hornby, or at least buy from smaller model shops which have, to some degree, also put up the price; these are likely to be newcomers to the hobby, and whilst they are not going to be likely to buy a brand new APT or Evening Star, they'll be wanting to buy some of the smaller engines and items of rolling stock.

And just to show that it's not restricted just to Hornby's site (and I'm not saying these prices are the result of the most recent price rises), a quick look on Hattons' website provides the following:

Hornby R30051 Bagnall 0-4-0 diesel shunter "G.Lee Mining Company"

hattons.co.uk Hornby R30051 Bagnall 0-4-0 diesel shunter "G.Lee Mining Company"

www.hattons.co.uk

Hornby R3359 Ex-GWR Class 101 0-4-0 391 'Rothery Industries' - Railroad

hattons.co.uk Hornby R3359 Ex-GWR Class 101 0-4-0 391 'Rothery Industries' - Railroad Range

www.hattons.co.uk

Hornby R3064 Class 0F Pug 0-4-0ST 56025 'Smokey Joe' in BR black

hattons.co.uk Hornby R3064 Class 0F Pug 0-4-0ST 56025 'Smokey Joe' in BR black

www.hattons.co.uk

(There's not really a lot to quote from the three here, but they're all Hornby 0-4-0s - the basic ones - with an average price of £39 each.)

I'm not saying we need the prices to come down to silly ideas such as engines costing only £100 ("only"), but prices coming down to sensible levels would be so much better for everyone.
There's a case to be made for newly-tooled engines costing, for example, £180 or maybe even £200 for a really fancy engine, but not if they're going to have issues such as parts of the front of Hornby's new W1s breaking, colours not being correct (see Hornby's GBRf Class 50s, or pretty much any of their GBRf stuff from what I've heard?), or locomotives needing the back-to-back dimensions on the axles axles to be fixed before they run properly.

There's also the matter of inaccurate models. Hornby have developed a liking for releasing models which don't look much like their real-life counterparts of late (I mean that's not to say they've not done it before - see their GWR 0-4-0 for one!) - they've taken the idea of Class 57s using the bodyshells from 47s a bit too literally with this pack: https://uk.hornby.com/products/drs-northern-belle-train-pack-era-10-r3697

Whilst it might be alright for those who don't care as much about perfect realism, the pack - which admittedly isn't just the engine (it comes with three Mk2s) - costs £181.49 at the moment. Looks like a bargain at first glance until you realise it's an old tooling made to look like a more modern design.

Another example of making a few quick changes to models to produce new versions is Hornby's Network Rail (and other test train-related) rolling stock. From my own experience, I can say that some aspects of these models look a bit poor in comparison to what else one might be able to find on the market - an example is this Network Rail Lecture Coach Mk3. Current price £42.49 and you can see even from the photos that the smaller windows - or parts where windows have been removed (or otherwise covered) on the real thing - have been achieved by fitting small pieces of yellow plastic into them on the model.

You can even see in this photo where the piece of plastic designed to make one window half-sized doesn't fit properly into the bottom of the frame. The pieces which are designed to look like vents are also extra pieces of plastic fitted into the window frames, just with black lines printed on them. You can see on the full-sized piece that the colour of that bit isn't the same shade as the coach body - not a major issue, but also not worth £42.49.


Sorry for such a long moan but that's just my thoughts. I've probably got all sorts of stuff muddled up so do correct me on those bits!

-Peter

 

[BRblue33]

i agree with you peter. They just put a new livery on models with old toling . Then put the price up. This as been go'ing on for years. Like the class 90.

 

[Iskra]

I can't agree with you there. Several of their recent business practices reek of just wanting to make more money.

That's the nature of business. They aren't a charity.

There is a case to be made for Hornby's price rises not necessarily being particularly relevant to the majority of modellers (as has been mentioned). However, the thing to consider is that a lot of people are going to buy directly from Hornby, or at least buy from smaller model shops which have, to some degree, also put up the price; these are likely to be newcomers to the hobby, and whilst they are not going to be likely to buy a brand new APT or Evening Star, they'll be wanting to buy some of the smaller engines and items of rolling stock.

And just to show that it's not restricted just to Hornby's site (and I'm not saying these prices are the result of the most recent price rises), a quick look on Hattons' website provides the following:

Hornby R30051 Bagnall 0-4-0 diesel shunter "G.Lee Mining Company"

hattons.co.uk Hornby R30051 Bagnall 0-4-0 diesel shunter "G.Lee Mining Company"

www.hattons.co.uk

Hornby R3359 Ex-GWR Class 101 0-4-0 391 'Rothery Industries' - Railroad

hattons.co.uk Hornby R3359 Ex-GWR Class 101 0-4-0 391 'Rothery Industries' - Railroad Range

www.hattons.co.uk

Hornby R3064 Class 0F Pug 0-4-0ST 56025 'Smokey Joe' in BR black

hattons.co.uk Hornby R3064 Class 0F Pug 0-4-0ST 56025 'Smokey Joe' in BR black

www.hattons.co.uk

(There's not really a lot to quote from the three here, but they're all Hornby 0-4-0s - the basic ones - with an average price of £39 each.)

I'm not saying we need the prices to come down to silly ideas such as engines costing only £100 ("only"), but prices coming down to sensible levels would be so much better for everyone.
There's a case to be made for newly-tooled engines costing, for example, £180 or maybe even £200 for a really fancy engine, but not if they're going to have issues such as parts of the front of Hornby's new W1s breaking, colours not being correct (see Hornby's GBRf Class 50s, or pretty much any of their GBRf stuff from what I've heard?), or locomotives needing the back-to-back dimensions on the axles axles to be fixed before they run properly.

There's also the matter of inaccurate models. Hornby have developed a liking for releasing models which don't look much like their real-life counterparts of late (I mean that's not to say they've not done it before - see their GWR 0-4-0 for one!) - they've taken the idea of Class 57s using the bodyshells from 47s a bit too literally with this pack: https://uk.hornby.com/products/drs-northern-belle-train-pack-era-10-r3697

Whilst it might be alright for those who don't care as much about perfect realism, the pack - which admittedly isn't just the engine (it comes with three Mk2s) - costs £181.49 at the moment. Looks like a bargain at first glance until you realise it's an old tooling made to look like a more modern design.

Another example of making a few quick changes to models to produce new versions is Hornby's Network Rail (and other test train-related) rolling stock. From my own experience, I can say that some aspects of these models look a bit poor in comparison to what else one might be able to find on the market - an example is this Network Rail Lecture Coach Mk3. Current price £42.49 and you can see even from the photos that the smaller windows - or parts where windows have been removed (or otherwise covered) on the real thing - have been achieved by fitting small pieces of yellow plastic into them on the model.

You can even see in this photo where the piece of plastic designed to make one window half-sized doesn't fit properly into the bottom of the frame. The pieces which are designed to look like vents are also extra pieces of plastic fitted into the window frames, just with black lines printed on them. You can see on the full-sized piece that the colour of that bit isn't the same shade as the coach body - not a major issue, but also not worth £42.49.


Sorry for such a long moan but that's just my thoughts. I've probably got all sorts of stuff muddled up so do correct me on those bits!

-Peter

You raise some valid points, but the examples you quote just highlight the importance of doing price research. If you don't do research, are cash-rich or are desperate for a model and you're going to buy it regardless of the price you will pay a premium for it. If you're more discerning; wait your time, shop around and buy it when you find it at the price you want- you can find a bargain. Brand New Smokey Joe from a retailer - £22, or a special edition one for £39.99. Is the hobby really that expensive? Certainly, it can be if you want the latest and greatest all the time, but if you're less fussy there are bargains out there to be had. Hornby feel they can charge high prices as a lot of their customers think they are the only supplier of model railways; it's essentially a tax on not doing price research (or ignorance), and as long as people keep paying it, they will keep charging it.

R3064 BR saddle tank 'Smokey Joe' (Railroad) [r3064] - £22.00 : The Hereford Model Centre, Hornby, Bachmann, Gaugemaster, Graham Farish, Heljan, LGB, Lyddle End, Peco, Skaledale, ViTrains, Liliput, Dapol

The Hereford Model Centre R3064 BR saddle tank 'Smokey Joe' (Railroad) [r3064] - No. 56025

herefordmodels.com

R3822 Smokey Joe Centenary edition [r3822] - £39.99 : The Hereford Model Centre, Hornby, Bachmann, Gaugemaster, Graham Farish, Heljan, LGB, Lyddle End, Peco, Skaledale, ViTrains, Liliput, Dapol

The Hereford Model Centre R3822 Smokey Joe Centenary edition [r3822] - Limited edition of 2000. Model has enhanced livery and handrails fitted

herefordmodels.com

 

[Peter C]

You raise some valid points, but the examples you quote just highlight the importance of doing price research. If you don't do research, are cash-rich or are desperate for a model and you're going to buy it regardless of the price you will pay a premium for it. If you're more discerning; wait your time, shop around and buy it when you find it at the price you want- you can find a bargain. Brand New Smokey Joe from a retailer - £22, or a special edition one for £39.99. Is the hobby really that expensive? Certainly, it can be if you want the latest and greatest all the time, but if you're less fussy there are bargains out there to be had. Hornby feel they can charge high prices as a lot of their customers think they are the only supplier of model railways; it's essentially a tax on not doing price research (or ignorance), and as long as people keep paying it, they will keep charging it.

R3064 BR saddle tank 'Smokey Joe' (Railroad) [r3064] - £22.00 : The Hereford Model Centre, Hornby, Bachmann, Gaugemaster, Graham Farish, Heljan, LGB, Lyddle End, Peco, Skaledale, ViTrains, Liliput, Dapol

The Hereford Model Centre R3064 BR saddle tank 'Smokey Joe' (Railroad) [r3064] - No. 56025

herefordmodels.com

R3822 Smokey Joe Centenary edition [r3822] - £39.99 : The Hereford Model Centre, Hornby, Bachmann, Gaugemaster, Graham Farish, Heljan, LGB, Lyddle End, Peco, Skaledale, ViTrains, Liliput, Dapol

The Hereford Model Centre R3822 Smokey Joe Centenary edition [r3822] - Limited edition of 2000. Model has enhanced livery and handrails fitted

herefordmodels.com

The main problem for me is primarily about the newcomer to the hobby. Certainly when I started out with model railways a few years ago, I'd never heard of the likes of Hattons, Hereford Model Centre, etc., and so Hornby* (and the local model shop) were the go-to places for models. For those in the Train Simulator community, a good comparison would be a newcomer only knowing that you can buy TS products through Steam, and not from other developers such as Armstrong Powerhouse; some may hear about these other developers sooner than others and therefore start buying their products earlier-on in their 'journey' (no pun intended) into Train Simulator. The analogy would be that buying directly from Hornby is the equivalent of buying Train Simulator items directly from Steam, and buying models from other retailers is the equivalent of buying Train Sim things from places such as Armstrong Powerhouse.

I expect it's a bit different now - especially with the effects of the pandemic and the closure of a lot of model shops, so people go online more readily as opposed to visiting their local model shop as a first port of call - but not everyone is going to know, through no fault of their own, that Hornby isn't the only manufacturer (or even retailer) of either just their models or OO gauge model as a whole.

-Peter