LSWR Cavalier
Established Member
Anybody tried explaining to an average driver that cyclists may legally use the road where there is a parallel cycle way or 'track'?
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Cyclists - your experiences on the road
- Thread starter py_megapixel
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
I'd give up before the argument finished about cyclists' right to use roads anywhere because they don't pay "road tax".
Roundabouts, particularly mini-roundabouts, seem to be a particular problem. I have lost count on the number of times I *could* have pulled out had the driver to my right confirmed they were turning immediate left, and I didn't have to give way to their manouvre - or of drivers behind me who think I can pull out - uphill - onto a roundabout in a space they'd only manage with their foot to the floor and half of their brethren wouldn't attempt.
+1 here. A particular favourite of mine is a tree that has grown - presumably naturally - next to the path, and over the years has pushed the path up. I'm not particularly in favour of removing trees, but this is now a good 3 inches above the line of the rest of the path. At the most recent resurfacing, the contractors did a wonderful job of carefully shaping the tarmac over it in a gentle slope... if only they fixed potholes with as much care!
York is full of shared pavements that I normally avoid as the surfaces are often poor, give ways to side streets abound and typically end up with a Z turn onto the vehicular carriageway. There is a wide purpose built footpath/cycleway alongside the A59 in Harrogate that conversely I often use as it starts just at the point the upward gradient is beginning to kill speed and it conveniently turns into a side street I take; not so conveniently if you want to go straight on and definitely inconvenient just before the turning there is a pedestrian crossing with its traffic light post smack in the middle of cycleway!
cactustwirly
Established Member
Why do you assume it's unique to cyclists? They are bad drivers full stop, I've had to stop on mini roundabouts in my car, because someone wasn't indicating.
I was almost involved in an accident when I was learning to drive, because someone didn't indicate they were turning at a 3 way mini roundabout. So I thought they were going straight on, so I could cross the roundabout, only to suddenly turn at the last minute. Luckily I was traveling slow enough to stop in time!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Of course one of the things experience tells you is not to believe an indication alone, you also look for other clues like the wheels starting to turn (or not doing). speed etc.
There's a roundabout very near where I live that is notorious for motorists giving wrong directions with their vehicle's indicators. Here it is on Google maps, (it's a three way mini with the A4147 passing through on a south west/north east axis and a third entrance from un unclassified road King Harry Lane). The dominant traffic flow is entering from King Harry Lane and exiting on the A4147 in the north-easterly direction. The problem is that traffic using this flow often comprises rat-runners avoiding congestion on the M1 by leaving it at J6 (or the M25 at J19A) and rejoining the M1 at J9. Traffic indicates right as it enters from King Harry Lane but doesn't bother to cancel that indication meaning that traffic waiting on the A4147 from the north east can't enter the roundabout because traffic that is turning off there is still indication that it will continue around the junction. Most locals are aware of this but it's difficult to just pitch into the path of traffic indicating that just veers off at the last point. So queues build up unnecessarily because of drivers' laziness, (or ignorance).
I don't assume any such thing... but this is a thread about cyclist's experiences on the road
Both roundabouts I'm thinking of are on a hill, and cambered. As such, speed is quite often "slowing or stopped", and wheels are not always angled in the direction of intended travel to counteract the camber!
That roundabout is an unusual shape; I take a very wide line when going in the direction of King Harry Lane to A4147 north to smooth it out. I wonder if the unusual shape somehow causes issues wit indicator cancelling. But I agree some of the indicating there is poor. In that area, a very very frustrating thing is the number of drivers heading on the A4147 down Bluehouse Hill who brake unnecessarily. I regularly have to brake on my bike down there as I catch up motorists evidently scared to go downhill at more than 32mph in a 40mph limit.
py_megapixel
Established Member
I made a fairly large mistake today. I left it far too late to join the right-turn lane at a busy junction, resulting in me cutting rather close in front of another vehicle to make the turn. If that vehicle had moved off - which was admittedly quite likely given the circumstances - it could have been dangerous. I will happily admit that what I did was not safe and that even after ending up stuck in the wrong lane there are decisions I could/should have made to mitigate the problem - in fact I realised this almost immediately, and it was an important lesson learned with thankfully no harm done.
Or so I thought. Apparently one passing motorist (not sure if it was the one I cut in front of or not) disagreed and saw fit in their anger to wind down their passenger window and shout something about not understanding how the road works at me. What on earth do they think is the value of doing this? And would they have said that to a car driver who made the same mistake?
(Editing a few hours after posting as I should point out that I was well beyond the junction by the time I was shouted at, and I believe I was then riding once again in a reasonably safe manner, as I had been before the lanes for the junction)
Or so I thought. Apparently one passing motorist (not sure if it was the one I cut in front of or not) disagreed and saw fit in their anger to wind down their passenger window and shout something about not understanding how the road works at me. What on earth do they think is the value of doing this? And would they have said that to a car driver who made the same mistake?
(Editing a few hours after posting as I should point out that I was well beyond the junction by the time I was shouted at, and I believe I was then riding once again in a reasonably safe manner, as I had been before the lanes for the junction)
Last edited:
Encountered a complete clown on Saturday - had overtaken some parked cars and almost immediately the road went round a left bend so I took the "racing line" off the overtake towards the inside of the bend. Immediately got a horn blast from the idiot in a overly bloated 4wD who could not overtake me until after the bend.
It matters not what he/she was driving, it's the bloated sense of entitlement that does the damage. Could do with a bit of training about any vehicle taking the primary position.
Drivers of smaller cars try to squeeze cyclists in even smaller gaps off the road.
In Cardiff they are putting in a new cycle lane on Newport Road. At the crossroads with West Grove it switches from the north to the south side of Newport Road.
The first picture below shows the approach to the junction heading west. Beyond the junction, lane one is the cycle lane, lane two is the bus lane and lane three is for other traffic. Lane two is now pointless. See photos below.
As you can see, the car now has to move into lane three. However, there is a traffic light planted in lane two rendering the bus lane useless. The buses all go into lane three prior to the junction.
Close up of the offending traffic light. At this point the buses are in lane three trying to get to lane two and the cars are in lane two trying to get to lane three. When it's busy the whole lot grinds to a halt. No doubt the council then dishes out fines to anyone that gets stuck in the box junction whilst trying to merge.
The first picture below shows the approach to the junction heading west. Beyond the junction, lane one is the cycle lane, lane two is the bus lane and lane three is for other traffic. Lane two is now pointless. See photos below.
As you can see, the car now has to move into lane three. However, there is a traffic light planted in lane two rendering the bus lane useless. The buses all go into lane three prior to the junction.
Close up of the offending traffic light. At this point the buses are in lane three trying to get to lane two and the cars are in lane two trying to get to lane three. When it's busy the whole lot grinds to a halt. No doubt the council then dishes out fines to anyone that gets stuck in the box junction whilst trying to merge.
AlastairFraser
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Aug 2018
- Messages
- 2,132
Additional point - which planning numbskull thought of switching the side of the road the lane runs on by sticking a cycle lane through the middle of a box? Are there separate phases for the cycle lane? Or do cyclists have to make a dangerous manoeuvre in general traffic?
There will be a separate phase for cyclists. That's why the new traffic light has appeared in the bus lane. This bit of the cycle lane is not in use yet. I'll upload some more photos when I have time.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Thanks for the updates. I've had too many experiences on the roads lately to go into in detail here. I did to an extent in my cycling holiday trip report on my trip report thread though
Your post intrigues me enough to look again at a long-planned ride from Newport to Cardiff, indeed said ride would probably begin in Cwmbran but that's all a story for another day. I've not yet chosen my route, however I'm curious if you've done the Newport to Cardiff bit and if you have any recommendations?
I'd go along the B4239 through St Brides and Peterstone. I've done that a few times. Years ago I cycled from Cardiff to Bristol Parkway along the B4239 and then over the original Severn Bridge.Thanks for the updates. I've had too many experiences on the roads lately to go into in detail here. I did to an extent in my cycling holiday trip report on my trip report thread though
Your post intrigues me enough to look again at a long-planned ride from Newport to Cardiff, indeed said ride would probably begin in Cwmbran but that's all a story for another day. I've not yet chosen my route, however I'm curious if you've done the Newport to Cardiff bit and if you have any recommendations?
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Thanks, I'll have a nosey at the map later on to better visualise it, but sounds the most sensible route. I want to do that ride over the Severn Bridge myself, was meant to do it this year but the weather was never on my side on the days I could go and do it!
AlastairFraser
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Aug 2018
- Messages
- 2,132
It still seems insane, why didn't they keep it on one side of the road?
I agree. Ask Cardiff Council. The cycle lane has been completed in stages but initially they didn't block off the end. Being a two way cycle lane this meant that people found themselves cycling the wrong along a bus lane on a dual carriageway! It would be funny if it weren't so serious.
Here's two more photos. Apologies for the marks, it was raining. The first shows one of the bus stops on the route. I've cycled over some others. The angle at the beginning of the hump is brutal. Some have been smoothed off, no doubt as a result of complaints. Most don't have drains so there is a huge puddle at one end or the other. This one actually has drains at both ends (there is one under the pile of leaves) because it rained during construction so the puddle problem was obvious. Inevitably there have been some near misses with bus passengers almost getting flattened as they step off the bus. The other thing that happens is people stand in the cycle lane whilst the approaching bus is still some way off. I'm not convinced that a wheelchair has any route off this one to the pavement.
This is the junction with Fitzalan Road. Anyone coming out of here has to check a zebra crossing, then a two way bike lane and a bus lane to get to lane three. At busy times, lane three is a line of cars back to the previous junction. How long will it take for a car/bike or car/bus collision? For anyone wondering, no the white car did not give way but then it is a taxi.
biko
Member
This really is poor design only focused on doing it as cheap as possible. A good design would be having a physical separation between the lanes for motorised traffic and the cyclists which is more than just some poles. At the intersection, the zebra crossing and cycle path should cross the side road on some distance from the main intersection with space in between for a car to wait and be able to have a look at the traffic after it has crossed the cyclists and pedestrians. In the Netherlands, the cycle path would have been built around the bus stop, so you would have the stop and shelter on a sort of island in between cyclists and the road. In many cases the cycle path is a bit higher at that point so wheelchairs can cross the cycle path without any problems.
These kinds of designs don't help showing how good cycling can be as an alternative to driving, but only fuel the anti-cyclist sentiments...
AlastairFraser
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Aug 2018
- Messages
- 2,132
Aaargh, the bus stop is clearly on the wrong side of the lane. I don't understand why planning departments feel the need to vary from best practise in order to try out new approaches.
Seen plenty like that in the much vaunted Walthamstow "mini Holland".
I am not sure which cyclists annoy bus passengers more, the ones who try to enforce their "right if way" on the cycle path when a bus is boarding or the ones who stay in the carriageway in front of a bus at barely over walking pace.
NB the descriptions come from friends who do not drive.
If a cyclist did collide with a passenger exiting a bus it would be ruled to be the cyclists fault for not anticipating in advance and being ready to stop. Its a simple fact that too many cycle routes are not fit for purpose and put cyclists into situations that can be potentially dangerous. A cycle route I use sometimes has a section that is a shared pavement around a corner across the exit of a filling statiion to a crossing point of an A road. Only the section on the pavement between the crossing point and the filling station exit has ever been marked out and is now fading from view. There is also no sign at the exit of the filling station as to the presence of a cycle route. Needless to say I have been hit there with a resultant need to scrap a front wheel.
Although I am (most often) a cyclist and usually quite militant I can see that give-and-take is needed.
We might have to accept a rule like when trams were last in the centre lanes of main roads: all traffic in the inside lane has to stop while passengers get to and from the pavement.
(I think this is one of the things which annoyed motorists and hastened the tram's demise.)
A
This is exactly what a floating bus stop is for - https://www.cycling-embassy.org.uk/dictionary/floating-bus-stop
But somehow council transport designers seem incapable of producing layouts that don’t result in needless conflict between road users.
But somehow council transport designers seem incapable of producing layouts that don’t result in needless conflict between road users.
ashkeba
Established Member
- Joined
- 13 May 2019
- Messages
- 2,171
Yes, a good layout like that which tries to manage the conflict makes the conflict too obvious and then safety auditors block it and insist on it all being made shared because they still seem to regard shared spaces as safe. Very few people here report any cyclist collision unless there is serious injury and the shared space and sharp hump slow cyclists enough that most collisions are minor and the safety auditors are never called to account for insisting on a bad design and everyone says they are puzzled why cycling numbers stay loe.
py_megapixel
Established Member
Replying here because the road tax thread is already off-topic enough and I'm sure the moderators won't appreciate yet another off topic discussion in there!
That's a fair point. I think the problem is that lights tend to just clip onto the handlebars, unlike car headlights which are carefully designed and positioned on the vehicle by the manufacturer. But short of selling bikes with integrated lights - which would substantially increase the price and thus the steal-ability - it's not clear to me how you could solve this.
- Status