• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Are e-tickets the way forward?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

dk1

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Oct 2009
Messages
15,948
Location
East Anglia
Why though? For a lot of passengers, electronic tickets are far more convenient.
It’s is quite amazing & noticeable how the ‘bleeps’ as guards make their way through the trains checking tickets have taken over in such a short space of time.
 

NoOnesFool

Member
Joined
26 Aug 2018
Messages
602
Why though? For a lot of passengers, electronic tickets are far more convenient.
Not if you don't have a mobile phone or your mobile phone runs out of power. You don't need any power for a hard ticket in your pocket. It's also useful for writing endorsements on if you experience disruption and need to be passed on an un-valid service. You can't do that with a mobile phone ticket.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,375
Location
Bolton
Not if you don't have a mobile phone or your mobile phone runs out of power.
If that's an issue to you then you can either print the ticket yourself or continue to use a paper ticket. Why should electronic tickets not be available because you don't have a mobile phone or have concerns about battery life?

It's also useful for writing endorsements on if you experience disruption and need to be passed on an un-valid service. You can't do that with a mobile phone ticket.
You can.
 

ld0595

Member
Joined
1 Aug 2014
Messages
571
Location
Glasgow
Not if you don't have a mobile phone or your mobile phone runs out of power. You don't need any power for a hard ticket in your pocket. It's also useful for writing endorsements on if you experience disruption and need to be passed on an un-valid service. You can't do that with a mobile phone ticket.
The mast majority of people in this day and age have a smartphone. Those who don't are still able to access physical tickets if need be.

I agree about potential battery issues but I'm sure most people would plan ahead with that and ensure they have sufficient battery to show their ticket. Most TOCs and stations have charging capabilities on the train as well so it's not a huge issue.

For anyone who is worried about their device running out of power, they are still welcome to purchase a physical ticket. It really isn't that much of an issue.

On your point about disruption, it can also be easier to have electronic tickets when experiencing delays as you can get an automatic refund in some cases.
 
Last edited:

NoOnesFool

Member
Joined
26 Aug 2018
Messages
602
that's an issue to you then you can either print the ticket yourself or continue to use a paper ticket. Why should electronic tickets not be available because you don't have a mobile phone or have concerns about battery life?
As has been stated, Senior Conductors and RMT are not happy about scanning being added to the SC's duties and the TOC should keep relations with the union good and free of tension. People have been using paper tickets since the railways began and SCs have been happily examining those tickets, so I don't see why the TOCs would change something that works well and cause upset amongst staff.
 

Towers

Established Member
Joined
30 Aug 2021
Messages
1,680
Location
UK
As has been stated, Senior Conductors and RMT are not happy about scanning being added to the SC's duties and the TOC should keep relations with the union good and free of tension. People have been using paper tickets since the railways began and SCs have been happily examining those tickets, so I don't see why the TOCs would change something that works well and cause upset amongst staff.
That surely isn't a serious post?!

E-tickets/M-tickets etc have enormous gains for the industry, in terms of massive cost reduction (CCST is expensive) and, when revenue duties are carried out properly, in terms of fraud reduction. To suggest that this shouldn't happen because some staff/the RMT don't like it is really not a valid argument!
 

Wolfie

Established Member
Joined
17 Aug 2010
Messages
6,157
That surely isn't a serious post?!

E-tickets/M-tickets etc have enormous gains for the industry, in terms of massive cost reduction (CCST is expensive) and, when revenue duties are carried out properly, in terms of fraud reduction. To suggest that this shouldn't happen because some staff/the RMT don't like it is really not a valid argument!
Absolutely. You could use the same argument that you rebut against all new technology/any different way of doing things.
What was wrong with steam engines anyway?
 

Deafdoggie

Established Member
Joined
29 Sep 2016
Messages
3,085
As has been stated, Senior Conductors and RMT are not happy about scanning being added to the SC's duties and the TOC should keep relations with the union good and free of tension. People have been using paper tickets since the railways began and SCs have been happily examining those tickets, so I don't see why the TOCs would change something that works well and cause upset amongst staff.
Next you'll be claiming they shouldn't have done away with the man walking in front waving a flag.
Times change. Things move on. Be a part of it.
 

Robertj21a

On Moderation
Joined
22 Sep 2013
Messages
7,518
As has been stated, Senior Conductors and RMT are not happy about scanning being added to the SC's duties and the TOC should keep relations with the union good and free of tension. People have been using paper tickets since the railways began and SCs have been happily examining those tickets, so I don't see why the TOCs would change something that works well and cause upset amongst staff.
Wow !

A return to the dark ages - I just hope you were being sarcastic.
 

Falcon1200

Established Member
Joined
14 Jun 2021
Messages
3,643
Location
Neilston, East Renfrewshire
I don't see why the TOCs would change something that works well and cause upset amongst staff.

The railway is run for its passengers, not its staff, and while i personally do not wish, or need, an electronic ticket, clearly they suit a large proportion of travellers, judging from recent journeys, so.... just get on with it.
 

nedchester

Established Member
Joined
28 May 2008
Messages
2,093
As has been stated, Senior Conductors and RMT are not happy about scanning being added to the SC's duties and the TOC should keep relations with the union good and free of tension. People have been using paper tickets since the railways began and SCs have been happily examining those tickets, so I don't see why the TOCs would change something that works well and cause upset amongst staff.

Good grief. One of the problems with the railway is that it is slow to change and here is a perfect example. Checking tickets by whatever means is still checking tickets why it should incur extra remuneration is beyond me. Look at airline tickets that are now nearly 100% mobile.

And this tweet (admittedly from Trainline) points out how popular mobile tickets have become:

 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,375
Location
Bolton
As has been stated, Senior Conductors and RMT are not happy about scanning being added to the SC's duties and the TOC should keep relations with the union good and free of tension. People have been using paper tickets since the railways began and SCs have been happily examining those tickets, so I don't see why the TOCs would change something that works well and cause upset amongst staff.
With respect it's not up to the conductors personally is it? It's also not up to you, sorry.

It is the duty of the company to provide good customer service, because it is recognised that customer satisfaction is an important route to growing revenue. Electronic tickets are an important part of that customer satisfaction.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,375
Location
Bolton
Electronic tickets aren't good customer service. They're crap.
I'm afraid that a whole body of industry experience suggests you're wrong. You don't need to use them if you don't want to so I don't see why you think it's appropriate for you to dictate this to others.

Nothing wrong with ToD or just buying at the ticket office.
Within a decade I predict that a large number of ticket offices will close permanently and ToD will end. What then?
 

bengley

Established Member
Joined
18 May 2008
Messages
1,843
I'm afraid that a whole body of industry experience suggests you're wrong. You don't need to use them if you don't want to so I don't see why you think it's appropriate for you to dictate this to others.


Within a decade I predict that a large number of ticket offices will close permanently and ToD will end. What then?
The industry wants to close ticket offices so it's pushing electronic tickets. That doesn't make it a good thing.

With regards to your second point - the industry will make it very difficult for, or alienate people who do not wish to, or cannot use electronic tickets. I certainly won't be buying any tickets via an app (and I'm a young person).

It's inconvenient and means I have to be absolutely certain my phone is charged sufficiently for my journey or I risk a penalty fare. That's not good customer service.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,375
Location
Bolton
The industry wants to close ticket offices so it's pushing electronic tickets. That doesn't make it a good thing.

With regards to your second point - the industry will make it very difficult for, or alienate people who do not wish to, or cannot use electronic tickets. I certainly won't be buying any tickets via an app (and I'm a young person).

It's inconvenient and means I have to be absolutely certain my phone is charged sufficiently for my journey or I risk a penalty fare. That's not good customer service.
You're wrong though. Ticket machines are still going to be on offer as will assistance at staffed stations, and probably some staffed sales points too, albeit maybe in tourist information offices rather than traditional ticket offices. People who can't use ticket machines because of disability will continue to be permitted to buy a ticket onboard if they're travelling from an unstaffed station. There is really no issue.
 

PupCuff

Member
Joined
27 Feb 2020
Messages
505
Location
Nottingham
E-tickets are 100% the way forward. Compatible across devices, can be booked online in the comfort of your own home/workplace/etc, significantly easier to detect and reduce ticket fraud, provides lots of lovely data to monitor travel patterns and whatnot, reduction in retail time, freeing up ticket offices and other retail staff to worry about complicated tickets and those customers who need extra assistance.

Probably the only way it could be improved is a little electronic kiosk at the station that if you're having a disaster and can't view your ticket (lost phone and no access to your computer etc) then you could tap in your details and print out a copy of the barcode, perhaps for a nominal fee to cover the cost of providing the machine and the receipt roll etc.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,375
Location
Bolton
It's a shame that so far no ticket machines have been adapted so that they can find your booking and print it out for you. This really wouldn't be difficult as there are already some ticket machines that print on PRT or plain paper roll. They could charge you 50p to print the booking if they wanted. Hopefully something like this will be possible.
 

Deafdoggie

Established Member
Joined
29 Sep 2016
Messages
3,085
It's inconvenient and means I have to be absolutely certain my phone is charged sufficiently for my journey or I risk a penalty fare. That's not good customer service.
You can get a power bank. Most trains and many stations have charging points. You can also print an e-ticket if you want, even on rectangle paper with orange edges if you want the full experience!
I must admit I was very wary of them, but recently used my first one and now I'm hooked. Much easier and better. In fact I'm disappointed if a journey doesn't permit them now. Paper tickets are such a faff and easier to loose.

It's a shame that so far no ticket machines have been adapted so that they can find your booking and print it out for you. This really wouldn't be difficult as there are already some ticket machines that print on PRT or plain paper roll. They could charge you 50p to print the booking if they wanted. Hopefully something like this will be possible.
I do agree this would be the ideal. People who wanted to print wouldn't mind a nominal fee I'm sure.
 

Horizon22

Established Member
Associate Staff
Jobs & Careers
Joined
8 Sep 2019
Messages
7,561
Location
London
E-tickets are 100% the way forward. Compatible across devices, can be booked online in the comfort of your own home/workplace/etc, significantly easier to detect and reduce ticket fraud, provides lots of lovely data to monitor travel patterns and whatnot, reduction in retail time, freeing up ticket offices and other retail staff to worry about complicated tickets and those customers who need extra assistance.

Probably the only way it could be improved is a little electronic kiosk at the station that if you're having a disaster and can't view your ticket (lost phone and no access to your computer etc) then you could tap in your details and print out a copy of the barcode, perhaps for a nominal fee to cover the cost of providing the machine and the receipt roll etc.

Definitely , there are many good implications. Instead of estimating passenger flows through things like LENNON, you can get accurate figures at a finer level (train by train basis). Further, other aspects such as performance management to some extent. If one guard scans 400 tickets on 1A01 one day, but another only 100 the next day, you might wonder why that is the case.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,190
People have been using paper tickets since the railways began

People used to send their 5 year olds up chimneys. Things change…


Electronic tickets aren't good customer service. They're crap.

I disagree, as does almost everyone on my Avanti service yesterday - I didn’t see a single person with a paper ticket. Clearly customers prefer them.
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
12,071
Location
UK
I disagree, as does almost everyone on my Avanti service yesterday - I didn’t see a single person with a paper ticket. Clearly customers prefer them.
They are sometimes the only option offered, and in other cases there is an additional fee for having paper tickets. So I don't think it's 100% out of free will.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,190
They are sometimes the only option offered, and in other cases there is an additional fee for having paper tickets. So I don't think it's 100% out of free will.

The only option? For my train yesterday - and every Avanti service I‘m aware of, anyone could have rocked up to Euston and bought a ticket at the ticket office. (It was an off peak train).
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,375
Location
Bolton
The only option? For my train yesterday - and every Avanti service I‘m aware of, anyone could have rocked up to Euston and bought a ticket at the ticket office. (It was an off peak train).
Or used a ticket vending machine yes.
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
12,071
Location
UK
The only option? For my train yesterday - and every Avanti service I‘m aware of, anyone could have rocked up to Euston and bought a ticket at the ticket office. (It was an off peak train).
When buying your ticket online or on an app.

Yes, of course you could go to a TVM or ticket machine but that is not nearly as convenient as what used to be commonplace previously - buying your ticket online and then collecting it from the machine.

It is one thing having the option for e-tickets. That's great. But as long as the railway comes down with an iron fist on people who can't produce a ticket because their battery dies - it needs to provide a free and convenient method of having a printed ticket of some description.

The full service airlines get it. It's not rocket science.
 

Towers

Established Member
Joined
30 Aug 2021
Messages
1,680
Location
UK
The DfT has a huge dilemma in that it would desperately love to cut staffing to the bare bones, but in doing so it would invite a huge degree of fare evasion, and not just through non-payment but also via the ever increasing number of easily abused e-tickets and so on. I imagine they're probably somewhat adrift regarding how best to address the situation.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,375
Location
Bolton
The full service airlines get it. It's not rocket science.
This is without a doubt true.

This statement on the Loganair website recently raised a smile on my face given the poor practice employed by the likes of Northern and GTR in respect of their love of criminalising their customers:

Unlike other airlines, we don’t require you to print your own boarding passes or charge extra for checking in at the airport.


We believe in giving our customers the choice. So if you are going on holiday – you can spend more time enjoying the journey than trying to interpret the rules. Our friendly staff at the airport will be delighted to get you checked in and on your way.
But then I guess that Loganair don't benefit from massive cash settlements which they bully people into paying like certain train operators do.
 

the sniper

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2007
Messages
3,499
significantly easier to detect and reduce ticket fraud

In theory. Maybe some TOCs transitioned better than others from standard ticket stock to all manner of things passing for a 'ticket' nowadays, but I know people who were 'ticket monsters' in the past who have largely given up now, the whole thing having become a right faff for far less reward. I'm not in the revenue game anymore admittedly, but I couldn't tell you whether something is or isn't a 'ticket' anymore, let alone whether it's valid for the journey being taken.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top