Nothing wrong with it, but it's hardly the way forward! I don't look back to the long queues at ticket offices and think 'ah yes I want to go back to those days' and most people seem to agree. But of course we are all entitled to our own opinions
What is wrong with that?
I cannot disagree with what you say, but in our case, the two stations with booking offices we had used in recent years (my wife died last November) were at Manchester Airport and Wilmslow railway stations which were well patronised four-platform railway stations with numbers of staff.It means you can only buy tickets when the ticket office is open. Not much good if your local station is unstaffed. A lot of ticket offices aren't even open on weekday afternoons.
in your mind… And yet the poll running on this forum currently shows around a two thirds / one third majority in favour of paper tickets. I suspect the real reason why many average punters use e-tickets now is not a preference for them, but because ticket retailing websites have been redesigned to coerce people into e-tickets by making other fulfilment methods more difficult to find / navigate (Or in the case of the wretched Cross Country more expensive by charging a TOD collection fee).And yet "normal" rail travellers also prefer e-tickets.
On the websites I've used, it's a simple button selection.in your mind… And yet the poll running on this forum currently shows around a two thirds / one third majority in favour of paper tickets. I suspect the real reason why many average punters use e-tickets now is not a preference for them, but because ticket retailing websites have been redesigned to coerce people into e-tickets by making other fulfilment methods more difficult to find / navigate (Or in the case of the wretched Cross Country more expensive by charging a TOD collection fee).
When presented with the option, customers choose eTickets over 90% of the time. The sample size is several million.in your mind… And yet the poll running on this forum currently shows around a two thirds / one third majority in favour of paper tickets. I suspect the real reason why many average punters use e-tickets now is not a preference for them, but because ticket retailing websites have been redesigned to coerce people into e-tickets by making other fulfilment methods more difficult to find / navigate (Or in the case of the wretched Cross Country more expensive by charging a TOD collection fee).
I am confident the proportion of people using e-tickets will continue to grow.
Still more complex than having a simple CCST in a shirt pocket.
And as I said, some of the apps (especially) and some of the websites deliberately make opting for TOD paper tickets more difficult - and if I recall from a recent debate in the Case of at least one app impossible. This almost certainly skews the numbers significantly.When presented with the option, customers choose eTickets over 90% of the time. The sample size is several million.
I, of course, can’t speak for everyone, but personally I haven’t had any issues getting excess fares on an eTicket. Brighton Travel Centre managed to do an overdistance excess on one for me perfectly fine! (Although, ironically, the excess was issued on CCST.)They're more difficult or impossible to get excess fares on
After a few responses from different website members, I felt in something of a stand-alone position with my liking for the credit card sized tickets.......To be honest, your posts are turning me against TOD even more and making me realise just how rubbish that system is compared to modern methods.
I find it ironic that some heritage railways let you book their version of e-tickets online. Maybe we should be forced to queue at the ticket office for the full heritage experienceNothing wrong with it, but it's hardly the way forward! I don't look back to the long queues at ticket offices and think 'ah yes I want to go back to those days' and most people seem to agree. But of course we are all entitled to our own opinions
I find it much easier; in the past I may have needed to post tickets to people or make sure I saw them. Now I can just forward the ticket to them.It feels that we have a new thread about this every few weeks! I'm in my 30s and very tech savvy and I do not use e-Tickets for a few reasons which I've mentioned in similar threads:
Buying tickets for others is more fiddly - you can't just hand the tickets over to someone else in your household
No need to have signal for an e-ticket; once downloaded that's it. You are thinking of m-tickets, which are awful.I don't trust phones not to have a flat battery or no signal etc, which is much more likely to happen when I'm on a train and bored so playing with my phone, or on a train going through an area with no signal, so I would need to print them anyway
The PDF software I use will print multiple pages per sheet.If you print them, you end up with a massive piece of paper which doesn't fit in your wallet. Worse, a split ticket or a return will have multiple pieces of paper instead of an option to have them all next to each other on one sheet
I find ticket inspections to be quicker than with paper tickets; it is usually quick for them to read the barcode (bear in mind Aztec codes used by train tickets are faster to scan than QR codes used for other applications) and the staff see the tick and move on to the next person, without having to take a close look at the small font and figure out if the ticket is valid or not.Getting them to scan the gates is fiddly and slow - you have to have the phone unlocked at just the right time, line the barcode up and as the scanner is face up you can't see what you're doing.
But my point is that they should beThey aren't enabled for flows with cross-London transfers, which most of my non-PAYG journeys have
That is a training issue for staff, not a drawback of the actual mediumThey're more difficult or impossible to get excess fares on
I find it easier as you don't have the 'passback' issue with them and e-tickets are less likely to be rejected by barriers in my experience. My last paper ticket was rejected everywhere; maybe it got demagnetised but I didn't do anything to obviously cause that.Break of journey is more difficult with them
I agree that TOCs have tarnished the reputation of e-tickets by introducing m-tickets and some TOCs continue to behave in this manner. It should be outlawed. But that is not a reason against genuine e-tickets.TOCs bungled the rollout with the confusing distinction between m-Tickets, eTickets and print@Home. Even now, I have no idea which TOCs' apps give you a PDF or pkpass file and which require you to display the ticket in an awful app. I seem to recall that FirstGroup are or were the offenders here, and even used the term "eTicket" to describe the app-locked ones at one point in time? Either way, because no standard naming and implementation was mandated across all TOCs, its totally undermined my trust in the whole system. I have no idea what I'll get.
You are thinking of m-tickets! No app is required for e-tickets!If I accidentally get stuck with an mTicket by mistake, I have no confidence in the app to not break and refuse to show the ticket
I do not see how this can be used against you and have never known it; yes if someone is on the fiddle they can be caught but that isn't a sensible drawback.The extra tracking allows TOCs such as Greater Anglia to challenge Delay Repay claims more easily (legit or otherwise)
I've never had any issues in this area; I have had paper tickets rejected on multiple occasions but not yet an e-ticket. If anything I would say using a ticket that may be deemed questionable is better on an e-ticket because the staff are more likely to accept it than look at the price and say "your ticket is too cheap"; I know many people had issues with the South Yorkshire to Kent tickets which had the pricing error but with e-tickets they would simply give the satisfying acceptance beep and staff would move on.The scanning app that staff use is a black box, and if it does not like my route for whatever reason then it will be much harder to argue that it is valid, as it could be a case of "computer says no"
Collectively and very generally, the TOCs are always misbehaving to some extent, but that is not a reason against using e-tickets IMO.Now, if they had implemented it the way full service airlines do, with a common behaviour between all TOCs, and the ability to access your PNR (ticket) and print it at TVMs onto CCST then I would try them again. Barcodes would fit on CCST if the industry wanted them to. But the way they've been implemented it, for me the negatives outweigh the positives.
Yes but you have made some key mistakes where you have confused m-tickets and e-tickets. As I have said before the rail industry is to blame; m-tickets should never have been introduced and they have tarnished the reputation of e-tickets and knocked some peoples' confidence. This is a good argument to say the TOCs are incompetent but is not a good reason not to use actual e-tickets.Also, I find it a bit insulting that those of use who are not in favour of the current eticket implementation are labelled as luddites on this thread. It's precisely because I'm a heavy tech user that I know of the downsides to these tickets!
We got the full experience at the Gloucestershire & Warwickshire; two queues to go to windows where the seller was separated from the customer by a glass (or maybe plastic) wall, the seller speaking quietly, one of the customers struggling to hear the seller and telling the person next to them to shut up. Delightful. Unfortunately for them, the person they were aiming it at didn't hear them and I did, but that's another story.I find it ironic that some heritage railways let you book their version of e-tickets online. Maybe we should be forced to queue at the ticket office for the full heritage experience
As an aside, the Pontypool and Blaenavon railway which I visited recently offered the following slightly surreal experience.We got the full experience at the Gloucestershire & Warwickshire; two queues to go to windows where the seller was separated from the customer by a glass (or maybe plastic) wall, the seller speaking quietly, one of the customers struggling to hear the seller and telling the person next to them to shut up. Delightful. Unfortunately for them, the person they were aiming it at didn't hear them and I did, but that's another story.
As an aside, the Pontypool and Blaenavon railway which I visited recently offered the following slightly surreal experience.
Online booking is required to obtain a discount. I was emailed a barcode which the booking office scanned before issuing me with an Edmondson style ticket. Sadly it was not checked or clipped on board. Perhaps the volunteer guard wasn't commercially trained or equipped.
I meant ticket checks as part of the experience rather than for revenue protection. It's also a good learning experience for small children and might discourage them from evading fares when they start using the 'big railway'.Ticketing on preserved railways is less about revenue protection (most people wouldn't fare-dodge on a preserved line; fare dodging is "in the culture" for travelling on the mainline but not so much for experience days out) and more about the experience of visitors and volunteers, so this isn't massively surprising.
Do you also still use your local bank branch , phone the speaking clock, post letters , make phone calls with landlines. Pay with a physical credit/debit card etc etc etc?I don’t find a phone difficult to work. I just find that using a phone is much more faff than a carrying a simple CCST when it comes to a rail travel, especially (as I explained above) in the context of barrier operations and ticket checks.
Paper tickets should be worth keeping while ever there are passengers who prefer them or need them - but as usual with the railway I suspect such is well down the list of priorities.
With the exemption of the speaking clock I do all those things! Ultimately it's far more satisfying to interact with other people in the real world rather than spend every waking minute staring at a phone screen!Do you also still use your local bank branch , phone the speaking clock, post letters , make phone calls with landlines. Pay with a physical credit/debit card etc etc etc?
Whilst the question was asked of another website member, I do use my bank branch at two differing outlets, post letters and greeting cards, make phone calls on my landline, pay regularly with a debit card (I do not use credit cards). However, I must confess never to have followed your query regarding the telephoning of the speaking clock.Do you also still use your local bank branch , phone the speaking clock, post letters , make phone calls with landlines. Pay with a physical credit/debit card etc etc etc?
It feels that we have a new thread about this every few weeks! I'm in my 30s and very tech savvy and I do not use e-Tickets for a few reasons which I've mentioned in similar threads:
- Buying tickets for others is more fiddly - you can't just hand the tickets over to someone else in your household. Yes you can or even email them directly from the retailers sit
- I don't trust phones not to have a flat battery or no signal etc, which is much more likely to happen when I'm on a train and bored so playing with my phone, or on a train going through an area with no signal, so I would need to print them anyway.
You don’t need a signal to show a ticket in your wallet and all our trains have power at every seat
have you tried the LNER app split tickets appear as one ticket .
- If you print them, you end up with a massive piece of paper which doesn't fit in your wallet. Worse, a split ticket or a return will have multiple pieces of paper instead of an option to have them all next to each other on one sheet
you also have to have a CCST (the correct coupon) I’m your hand at just the right time.Held the right way up.
- Getting them to scan the gates is fiddly and slow - you have to have the phone unlocked at just the right time, line the barcode up and as the scanner is face up you can't see what you're doing.
were working very hard on that one
- They aren't enabled for flows with cross-London transfers, which most of my non-PAYG journeys have
This has changed recently with new instructions being issued. Non problem
- They're more difficult or impossible to get excess fares on
this was a problem with a certain kind of Gate but is now fixed, otherwise the condti9ns are the same as CCST
- Break of journey is more difficult with them
- TOCs bungled the rollout with the confusing distinction between m-Tickets, eTickets and print@Home. Even now, I have no idea which TOCs' apps give you a PDF or pkpass file and which require you to display the ticket in an awful app. I seem to recall that FirstGroup are or were the offenders here, and even used the term "eTicket" to describe the app-locked ones at one point in time? Either way, because no standard naming and implementation was mandated across all TOCs, its totally undermined my trust in the whole system. I have no idea what I'll get.
dont buy from a retailer that offers mTickets, I can recommend one.
- If I accidentally get stuck with an mTicket by mistake, I have no confidence in the app to not break and refuse to show the ticket
it also allows messaging telling you what platform your train is on and one click delay repay as well as train running info, again I can recommend a retailer that does all of this
- The extra tracking allows TOCs such as Greater Anglia to challenge Delay Repay claims more easily (legit or otherwise)
Thats down to training and system set up, nothing is ever perfect but this also applies to a visual check of a CCST
- The scanning app that staff use is a black box, and if it does not like my route for whatever reason then it will be much harder to argue that it is valid, as it could be a case of "computer says no"
Also, I find it a bit insulting that those of use who are not in favour of the current eticket implementation are labelled as luddites on this thread. It's precisely because I'm a heavy tech user that I know of the downsides to these tickets!
I’ll give you this one although Print at Home is being discontinued shortly, there is another format just launched though.
It also pretty obvious which is the ticket. The sort of person who tries to get through the gate with the reservation will probably make a dogs breakfast of using a phone.Do you also still use your local bank branch , phone the speaking clock, post letters , make phone calls with landlines. Pay with a physical credit/debit card etc etc etc?
I also guess nobody has stood at a gate line watch people struggling and trying to get through the gates with their reservation coupons, with an eTicket it’s fairly obvious what you need to scan.
It also pretty obvious which is the ticket. The sort of person who tries to get through the gate with the reservation will probably make a dogs breakfast of using a phone.
I'll have to have a close look at a barriered station on a quiet day and see how you actually use an e-ticket. The Oyster pad and slot for CCST were all I noticed at Waterloo but then with CCST you don't even stop walking as you go through the gate so there isn't much time to contemplate the technology..
So the reverse must also apply? That the person who knows which is the ticket will have no difficulty using a phone.The sort of person who tries to get through the gate with the reservation will probably make a dogs breakfast of using a phone.
I guess you’ve never stood in a queue at a gateline, waiting while people activate their mobile phones, fumbling to find the right app or pull up the relevant barcode - while at the same time those with a CCST to hand just quickly and quietly put them in the slot and move on. (Same at checkouts in supermarkets too, those using mobile phones to pay are almost invariably slower, fumbling around getting the right app open, than folks who just use a contactless card or even chip and pin - I always groan inwardly when the person ahead of me is using a mobile as I know it’s almost certain to slow things down).I also guess nobody has stood at a gate line watch people struggling and trying to get through the gates with their reservation coupons, with an eTicket it’s fairly obvious what you need to scan.
I guess you’ve never stood in a queue at a gateline, waiting while people activate their mobile phones, fumbling to find the right app or pull up the relevant barcode - while at the same time those with a CCST to hand just quickly and quietly put them in the slot and move on. (Same at checkouts in supermarkets too, those using mobile phones to pay are almost invariably slower, fumbling around getting the right app open, than folks who just use a contactless card or even chip and pin - I always groan inwardly when the person ahead of me is using a mobile as I know it’s almost certain to slow things down).