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Covid restrictions abroad: updates & observations

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yorkie

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Flimsy loose fitting masks are all about virtue signalling.

But even wearing FFP2/3 masks isn't going to stop the spread of Sars-CoV-2; individuals wearing/handling/storing/replacing such masks in accordance with instructions may be able to delay an infection but the end result at population level is not going to be any different.

I find it amusing to see Italy, which is still a mask-obsessed country, has very high case rates. I'm ruling out going to Italy until they stop demonising masks, which is a shame as I had planned to go there this Autumn, but I am not prepared to put up with mask nonsense when there are so many other places that can be visited.
 
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Cloud Strife

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"Ladies and gentlemen the doors are now closed. This means that we are under british jurisdiction and therefore you do not need to wear masks"

Except he was wrong. While the plane was in Canadian airspace, then Canadian laws apply. It's only in international airspace that the country of registration law applies.
 

yorkie

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Jimini

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Not sure how it works, but when flying to / from HK for work, the onboard wi-fi is always turned off whilst over Chinese airspace (and announced as such).
 

BJames

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Except he was wrong. While the plane was in Canadian airspace, then Canadian laws apply. It's only in international airspace that the country of registration law applies.
My understanding was that the captain may have been slightly wrong in that it's once you actually take off from the ground, rather than close the doors, but once taken off, even when in Canadian airspace the laws of the country in which the plane was registered apply.
 

Richard Scott

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My understanding was that the captain may have been slightly wrong in that it's once you actually take off from the ground, rather than close the doors, but once taken off, even when in Canadian airspace the laws of the country in which the plane was registered apply.
It was a BA flight wasn't it? Therefore highly likely aircraft is UK registered so on that basis UK law applies?
 

nedchester

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Now in San Francisco and it’s full Covid paranoia 2020 style in places.

Got to hotel with full Perspex screens, masks worn by staff and unused/used pens to sign paperwork.

Got the very full tram to the Quay (masks advised with about 50% wearing)

Then the best one an open top boat to Alcatraz where everyone got bellowed at to wear masks “over your nose and covering your face” during the journey despite the breeze blowing any germs away! Utter illogical nonsense.

Even in the streets lots of people masked outside!
 
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I find it amusing to see Italy, which is still a mask-obsessed country, has very high case rates. I'm ruling out going to Italy until they stop demonising masks, which is a shame as I had planned to go there this Autumn, but I am not prepared to put up with mask nonsense when there are so many other places that can be visited.
Italy's mask requirements are now only on trains. coaches and buses (planes have now been dropped). Having been in Italy early in May (Turin) and then late June (Rome) the wearing of masks has dropped significantly and was only really noticeable on busy buses and the metro. Even at the three big gigs we went to in Rome (one large 11000 capacity arena and two open air) there was little wearing of masks Enforcement now seems to be completely non-existent - public attitude to Covid risks seemed very similar to UK
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Interesting to see the various precautions being taken in the Tour de France entourage, passing through 4 countries this year (DK, BE, CH as well as FR).
They keep suffering Covid cases and eliminations as a result.
There's intensive testing today (rest day), with some concern about the spread, notably among the travelling media.
It's noticeable how they all mask up before and after a race for interviews and presentations, and have movements restricted when not racing.
The second part of this report in the Guardian gives some indication of their concern.
Clearly concerned by the rash of positive Covid results now emanating from the Tour convoy, the UCI, cycling’s world governing body, reiterated on Sunday afternoon that “the rules introduced over the last two years in the interests of everyone’s health and safety continue to apply. These include the obligation to wear a mask, to maintain sufficient physical distance and to disinfect hands frequently.”
 

Richard Scott

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Interesting to see the various precautions being taken in the Tour de France entourage, passing through 4 countries this year (DK, BE, CH as well as FR).
They keep suffering Covid cases and eliminations as a result.
There's intensive testing today (rest day), with some concern about the spread, notably among the travelling media.
It's noticeable how they all mask up before and after a race for interviews and presentations, and have movements restricted when not racing.
The second part of this report in the Guardian gives some indication of their concern.
Of which only one of the three precautions is likely to have any effect. Wish these people who spout these things would actually be more scientific rather than trot out the same rubbish every time (which obviously doesn't work as the virus is still very much with us despite trying these things for best part of two years).
 

VauxhallandI

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Of which only one of the three precautions is likely to have any effect. Wish these people who spout these things would actually be more scientific rather than trot out the same rubbish every time (which obviously doesn't work as the virus is still very much with us despite trying these things for best part of two years).
Yep let them strangle the goose that lays their golden egg. Crazy
 

Mag_seven

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They keep suffering Covid cases and eliminations as a result.
There's intensive testing today (rest day), with some concern about the spread, notably among the travelling media.

“the rules introduced over the last two years in the interests of everyone’s health and safety continue to apply. These include the obligation to wear a mask, to maintain sufficient physical distance and to disinfect hands frequently.”

So they are all wearing masks yet there is concern about spread? Has the penny not dropped yet?
 

Bikeman78

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So they are all wearing masks yet there is concern about spread? Has the penny not dropped yet?
Do none of the pro restriction countries wonder why the world hasn't ended in the UK? Aside from the Omicron blip, we have been mostly normal for a year. Nothing bad seems to have happened.
 

Citybreak1

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When do people here see masks going in places like Germany and Italy? I fear these rules could come back elsewhere at what point or year does this all stop?
 

Mag_seven

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When do people here see masks going in places like Germany and Italy? I fear these rules could come back elsewhere at what point or year does this all stop?

I suspect that the longer it goes on the more likely it is that the requirement will never be dropped. :(
 

Citybreak1

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I suspect that the longer it goes on the more likely it is that the requirement will never be dropped. :(
But people would just go to places with less restrictions. I for one am avoiding Italy right now. Maybe when the WHO say pandemic over they will finally stop it?
 

duncanp

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Seems that Saint Jacinda is paying the price of her "Zero COVID" policy.

Don't expect to hear much about this on the BBC, Locktivist Sky News, The Grauniad....etc.


Jacinda Ardern is paying the price for her hermit zero-Covid economy​

New Zealand is crashing into a hard recession

he was determined to protect the country’s health. She locked the doors to keep the virus at bay. And, although it might be tough for a while, the country and its economy would emerge in far stronger shape than most of its rivals.

At the height of the Covid-19 pandemic, New Zealand's Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern was widely praised for her rational, science-based approach to the virus. She was dealing with it far better than anyone else, we were told again and again - and it was a model to be emulated.

Now it turns out that the bill is falling due. New Zealand is crashing into a hard recession.

Business confidence is plummeting. House prices are in freefall. And the central bank is raising interest rates at a faster pace than any other in the developed world.

In reality - surprise, surprise - you can’t turn a country into a sealed-off hermit kingdom without doing long-term damage to its economy.


Whether zero-Covid policies were right or wrong is something we will be debating for years. But there is no question that the economic reckoning is now here - and the price is turning out to be a very high one.

When Covid-19 was ripping out across the world, Jacinda Ardern was right at the front of the efforts to control it – and then eradicate it completely.

The country was effectively sealed off, with strict quarantines for anyone arriving in the country, extensive testing, and tough local lockdowns on the rare occasions the virus did escape.

Indeed, she was one of a handful of female leaders – Germany’s Angela Merkel, if anyone remembers who she was, was another – held up as proof that women were handling the pandemic far better than their male counterparts.

On one level, of course, it worked, even though it helps if you are a small-ish island a long way from anywhere. New Zealand had far lower rates of infection, and inevitably deaths as well, and kept the virus under control until the vaccines were available.

The trouble is, the economic cost is now starting to emerge. What has for the last 20 years been a very successful Pacific nation, with growth rates that were the envy of the rest of the developed world, is now crashing hard into a recession.

The latest data out of New Zealand is simply dreadful. Last week, its central bank forecast that the economy would go into a steep downturn next year after survey results showed business confidence was slumping at alarming rates.

House prices are falling at the steepest rate for 13 years, and that may well accelerate. Inflation is touching 7pc, a 30-year high. The central bank is pushing interest rates higher more aggressively than anywhere else in the developed world, with a half point increase in May marking the fifth straight rise, along with signals that there are a lot more to come before it is finished.

Its neighbour Australia might have had lockdowns that were just as strict, but at least Canberra now has booming commodity exports - Australia is stepping into a lot of the markets that Ukraine has had to abandon - to help it through 2022. New Zealand is facing a global slowdown and an inflationary storm on its own.

New Zealand is experiencing the after-shocks of Ardern’s fanatical pursuit of zero-Covid. You can’t seal off an economy, close down its tourism sector, and spend huge sums of money on support for all the businesses that have been closed, without expecting the economy to suffer. That is now becoming painfully clear.

Tourism was the country’s largest single export, for example, ahead of dairy products, but it was crushed by the quarantine rules and is expected to take another three years to recover to pre-Covid levels. A third of the workforce was laid off during the pandemic, and are yet to be fully re-hired.

Despite its fantastic scenery, television and film production companies started to abandon the country, most notably when Amazon cancelled filming there for its Lord of the Rings series, the most expensive TV show in history.

Add it all up, and confidence in a once booming economy has been shattered. The Prime Minister is already far behind in the polls and now looks almost certain to be defeated in the next general election - and the economic data is certainly not going to come to her rescue.

We are still assessing Covid lockdowns and trying to work out whether they were the right or wrong decision.

The benefits were apparent right away. Fewer people died. Life was slightly more normal between the periodic local lockdowns.

But the costs are only starting to emerge. We have still to tabulate the impact on mental health, especially among young people. We still need to work out what will happen to all the people who lost their jobs or the companies they had built up over many years.

And most of all, we are only just starting to see the impact on the economy, with higher inflation, more debt, and chaotic supply chains.

Whether it was all worth it is of course up to individuals to decide. The important point is this: we need to keep track of the costs as they become clear – if we don't, we will never know whether it was the right decision or not.

Ardern was one of the leading evangelists of zero-Covid. Her country was the laboratory for closed down borders, strict quarantines, and tough lockdowns. No one denies for a moment that some lives were saved. And yet as her economy crashes, we will see the cost of that. And right now it looks as if the price will be a very high one.
 

Butts

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When do people here see masks going in places like Germany and Italy? I fear these rules could come back elsewhere at what point or year does this all stop?

It's not that long ago people travelling from England to Scotland were subjected to the same !!
 

kristiang85

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Seems that Saint Jacinda is paying the price of her "Zero COVID" policy.

Don't expect to hear much about this on the BBC, Locktivist Sky News, The Grauniad....etc.


Yep, anybody with basic knowledge of economics could have predicted New Zealand would be hit hard eventually. I daresay the economic problems there will end more lives prematurely through stress-related illness, declining healthcare and unaffordable heating than COVID would have done.

The West really has completely shot itself in the foot over this. It's going to take a generation to recover I'd say. And nobody can say it will have been worth it.
 

Eyersey468

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Yep, anybody with basic knowledge of economics could have predicted New Zealand would be hit hard eventually. I daresay the economic problems there will end more lives prematurely through stress-related illness, declining healthcare and unaffordable heating than COVID would have done.

The West really has completely shot itself in the foot over this. It's going to take a generation to recover I'd say. And nobody can say it will have been worth it.
I think it will take longer than a generation to be honest, I just hope the lessons from this are learned and we are never again subject to such appalling messaging or subject to such pointless and nonsensical restrictions.
 

Mag_seven

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But people would just go to places with less restrictions. I for one am avoiding Italy right now. Maybe when the WHO say pandemic over they will finally stop it?

Yes agree people can just vote with their feet and refuse to go to these countries but what about people who actually live there?

There must be some sign that they are getting fed up with the whole charade particularly since they are now very much in a minority of European countries to still have mask mandates?
 

jumble

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It was a BA flight wasn't it? Therefore highly likely aircraft is UK registered so on that basis UK law applies?

It was indeed a BA flight and Aircraft with a G- regsitration

Then the best one an open top boat to Alcatraz where everyone got bellowed at to wear masks “over your nose and covering your face” during the journey despite the breeze blowing any germs away! Utter illogical nonsense.

Even in the streets lots of people masked outside!

How odd and in total contrast We had a boat trip onto the lake at Chicago
One single person wearing a mask on that boat
 
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Travelled through Germany on the train yesterday. It's amazing how so many people there comply with the mask rules.

The first train I got came from Prague so a fair few people from Czech Republic didn't seem to be aware/care of mask rules. The conductor came through once encouraging them to go buy one from the buffet car but after that made no effort. DB journey was much worse with everyone wearing one except to eat and drink. I tried avoiding it except when the conductor was storming through. The last two journeys were local trains with nobody checking tickets. These had a couple unmasked but the majority still wearing despite the heat.

Luckily I didn't stay there and am now in the very much normal looking Netherlands.
 

rg177

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Yes, compliance in Germany is very very high indeed. On the Hamburg S-Bahn yesterday, other passengers would usually start having a go at maskless ones.

Interest from traincrews very much varies. Some haven't said anything and others have done PA announcements reminiscent of the lockdown days saying you'll be thrown off at the next stop if you don't wear one.

At least beyond that, it's very much business as usual here.
 

nw1

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Now in San Francisco and it’s full Covid paranoia 2020 style in places.

Got to hotel with full Perspex screens, masks worn by staff and unused/used pens to sign paperwork.

Got the very full tram to the Quay (masks advised with about 50% wearing)

Then the best one an open top boat to Alcatraz where everyone got bellowed at to wear masks “over your nose and covering your face” during the journey despite the breeze blowing any germs away! Utter illogical nonsense.

Even in the streets lots of people masked outside!

Interesting it's the case in San Francisco, a city famed for an easy-going and laid-back approach to life. (I have actually been there, three times now, between 1996 and 2004).

Why are they so worried, now? Sounds almost like the opposite extreme to Trump: maybe those suggestions that America has become extremely polarised with little middle ground might actually hold some weight.

It would be interesting to hear what percentage of the American electorate EITHER still support Trump OR still believe harsh restrictions are appropriate in 2022. Both positions seem rather hardline to me personally.
 

Butts

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Interesting it's the case in San Francisco, a city famed for an easy-going and laid-back approach to life. (I have actually been there, three times now, between 1996 and 2004).

Why are they so worried, now? Sounds almost like the opposite extreme to Trump: maybe those suggestions that America has become extremely polarised with little middle ground might actually hold some weight.

It would be interesting to hear what percentage of the American electorate EITHER still support Trump OR still believe harsh restrictions are appropriate in 2022. Both positions seem rather hardline to me personally.

Possibly engineered by those in Pacific Heights ?

Lord alone knows what a certain Inspector Harry Callaghan's retort to this would be :E
 

Citybreak1

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How to people see it going this winter or next year? Some countries removing restrictions like Malta but bringing back rules in NZ. I have a holiday in October but still uncertain to book. How long will this uncertainty last?
 

Huntergreed

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How to people see it going this winter or next year? Some countries removing restrictions like Malta but bringing back rules in NZ. I have a holiday in October but still uncertain to book. How long will this uncertainty last?
I can see the countries with mandates keeping them (Spain and Italy for example) and some of the more locktivist (France perhaps) reintroducing, but certainly i dont expect so in the UK (if they do, likely Scotland and at a push, wales)
 

Richard Scott

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I can see the countries with mandates keeping them (Spain and Italy for example) and some of the more locktivist (France perhaps) reintroducing, but certainly i dont expect so in the UK (if they do, likely Scotland and at a push, wales)
I agree but really can't understand why these mandates are carrying on. It's not scientific and it's not preventing infections do what is the point. Are the politicians in those countries really that daft?
 
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