• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Flexibility of changing - Exeter or Plymouth?

Status
Not open for further replies.

cle

Established Member
Joined
17 Nov 2010
Messages
4,007
I've bought two advanced tickets from Truro to London on Sun May 8th.

They were significantly cheaper than the direct train - timetabled as:

Leg 1 of 2
Truro d 14:19
Exeter St Davids a 16:55 2:36hrs
Leg 2 of 2
Exeter St Davids d 17:19
London Paddington a 20:21 3:02hrs

But obviously this first slow train will also stop at Plymouth, where the second London train begins. It routed me with a change at Exeter, but obviously I'd rather jump off at Plymouth, and get on the HST there.

Is this allowed? It's the same journey, but just changing at a different spot - could also be Totnes or Newton Abbot technically?!

I'm guessing it gave me that as a default because Exeter is the shorter layover? But I'd rather wait longer in Plymouth, and then ride the HST.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

me123

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2007
Messages
8,510
I don't think it would be allowed. You're tickets are valid for the booked train only, and because the reservation for the second train will only be from Exeter to Paddington, you can only use that train from Exeter to Paddington.

If you could have got the booking engine to allow you to change at Plymouth, then it would have printed you Plymouth-Paddington reservations and consequently you'd have been able to use the HST from Plymouth.
 

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
15,980
Location
0036
With an advance ticket you are supposed to travel exactly as booked, and you run the risk of having to buy an anytime ticket at full price if you don't. I assume your reservation coupons will refer to the trains you booked, or at least the second one. I wouldn't risk it.
 

bb21

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
24,151
If the first leg of your journey does not come with a mandatory reservations coupon, which makes it a recommended service, then it is debatable as to whether you are allowed to join the HST without a reservation for the Plymouth - Exeter section. I don't think we have reached consensus on here before.

FYI in the up direction towards Paddington, the best place to change is Taunton, as your trains would call at the same platform. Of course I know it might not be relevant in this case.
 

cle

Established Member
Joined
17 Nov 2010
Messages
4,007
I think my first train terminates at Exeter, for what it's worth.

Not sounding good:

I don't think it would be allowed. You're tickets are valid for the booked train only, and because the reservation for the second train will only be from Exeter to Paddington, you can only use that train from Exeter to Paddington.

This makes sense, from what I know of the rules. Shame, would be much better...

In a twist, I was hoping to maybe upgrade to first class when on the HST. Would that be possible with the cheapest advance ticket, and would that help or hinder me if I tried to get on at Plymouth and upgrade?
 

bb21

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
24,151
In a twist, I was hoping to maybe upgrade to first class when on the HST. Would that be possible with the cheapest advance ticket, and would that help or hinder me if I tried to get on at Plymouth and upgrade?

Weekend First Upgrade does not change the validity of your original ticket
 

bnm

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2009
Messages
4,996
FYI in the up direction towards Paddington, the best place to change is Taunton, as your trains would call at the same platform. Of course I know it might not be relevant in this case.

That presupposes that the OPs first train is going all the way to Taunton. It doesn't.

Taunton is also signalled bi-directonal on all platforms. There is no absolute guarantee that all UP services will always call at the same platform.
 

Zoe

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2008
Messages
5,905
Taunton is also signalled bi-directonal on all platforms.
Unless there has been a very recent resignalling, you can't depart towards Exeter from platforms 4 or 5. Actually you can't even access platforms 4 or 5 from Bristol.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If you are leaving the first train at Plymouth when you are booked through to Exeter then as discussed in other threads, you are breaking the terms of your ticket. In theory you could pay £20 to change both tickets but a cheaper option would be to get an Off Peak Day Single on the day from Truro to Exeter and then use your Exeter to London advance fare from there.
 
Last edited:

bnm

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2009
Messages
4,996
Unless there has been a very recent resignalling, you can't depart towards Exeter from platforms 4 or 5. Actually you can't even access platforms 4 or 5 from Bristol.
Yes, Zoe, you are right. Despite Taunton being my home town I'd forgotten what the layout was, exactly. I can still remember when Taunton only had 3 platforms. 1 (down) & 2 (up) for through trains and the Bristol facing bay, platform 3. Following remodelling, renumbering and reopening of the island platforms, it's only platforms 2 and 3 (nominally on the 'down' lines) that are fully bi-di. It is possible, though unusual, for UP services to call at platform 4 (on the central island).
 
Last edited:

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,430
Location
Yorkshire
Is the first train is reserved or merely suggested? My answer will depend on that information.
 

hairyhandedfool

Established Member
Joined
14 Apr 2008
Messages
8,837
The first train is non-reservable which makes me think what Yorkie is about to suggest is probably 'unwise', or (IMO) plain wrong.

The ticket is either 'rte AP Slough' or 'rte FGW only' which means you must use the booked services. So joining the HST before your booked change at Exeter could leave you with a new ticket to buy with no refund on the advance.
 

Zoe

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2008
Messages
5,905
Is the first train is reserved or merely suggested? My answer will depend on that information.
The above post suggests that they have two advance fares. If the first train was just suggested then they wouldn't have been issued an advance fare. I get the impression that the person has two separate advance tickets.
 

hairyhandedfool

Established Member
Joined
14 Apr 2008
Messages
8,837
It's quite possible to have the one ticket, but the fare is either 'rte AP Slough' or 'rte FGW Only' and only the op can say which it is, not that it makes a difference to this question.
 

Zoe

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2008
Messages
5,905
It's quite possible to have the one ticket, but the fare is either 'rte AP Slough' or 'rte FGW Only' and only the op can say which it is, not that it makes a difference to this question.
Indeed it is but the above post said they have two advance tickets. However we will wait for confirmation.....
 

hairyhandedfool

Established Member
Joined
14 Apr 2008
Messages
8,837
Ah, sorry I thought you were refering to my post. I got the impression from the Op that two tickets were bought for two people. If it is split tickets for one person, we need more detail as the routeing on them is the important bit.
 

Zoe

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2008
Messages
5,905
Splitting advance fares also seems quite a risky thing to do as if you first train is delayed and you miss your connection then I would have thought the TOC has no duty to you as in their eyes it actually wouldn't be a connection.
 
Last edited:

Zoe

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2008
Messages
5,905
Does anyone have a link to the previous discussion on this?
 

DaveNewcastle

Established Member
Joined
21 Dec 2007
Messages
7,387
Location
Newcastle (unless I'm out)
and probs on this (long) one too : http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=36132


Returning to the OP, it seems quite clear to me that the answer is, sorry, but no. If your tickets are 'Advance' then they are valid only for travel on the booked trains.
And the 'get out of jail card' is, if purchased as the one transaction, then take the documentaion which shows that the multiple tickets form just the one 'journey' and just the one transaction with just one company
 
Last edited:

Failed Unit

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2009
Messages
8,857
Location
Central Belt
I've bought two advanced tickets from Truro to London on Sun May 8th.

They were significantly cheaper than the direct train - timetabled as:

Leg 1 of 2
Truro d 14:19
Exeter St Davids a 16:55 2:36hrs
Leg 2 of 2
Exeter St Davids d 17:19
London Paddington a 20:21 3:02hrs

But obviously this first slow train will also stop at Plymouth, where the second London train begins. It routed me with a change at Exeter, but obviously I'd rather jump off at Plymouth, and get on the HST there.

Is this allowed? It's the same journey, but just changing at a different spot - could also be Totnes or Newton Abbot technically?!

I'm guessing it gave me that as a default because Exeter is the shorter layover? But I'd rather wait longer in Plymouth, and then ride the HST.

For interest could you have got an AP from Truro - Plymouth and the 2nd from Plymouth - London or would this have put the price up too much?
 

devon_metro

Established Member
Joined
11 Oct 2005
Messages
7,715
Location
London
It's a fairly simple change at Exeter anyway, Platform 6 to Platform 5, both of which are on the same island.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,430
Location
Yorkshire
Splitting advance fares also seems quite a risky thing to do as if you first train is delayed and you miss your connection then I would have thought the TOC has no duty to you as in their eyes it actually wouldn't be a connection.
I do not agree with this at all, but I won't go into it because it's been discussed so many times before, and the OP hasn't stated that they are using a combination of tickets (although they may be as it is unclear, but I was assuming not).

I am not commenting further until the OP provides sufficient information, unfortunately I do not think that the rules that are available to us will be sufficient to conclude either way anyway though.
 

hairyhandedfool

Established Member
Joined
14 Apr 2008
Messages
8,837
.... unfortunately I do not think that the rules that are available to us will be sufficient to conclude either way anyway though.

What rules are unclear exactly? If it is a through ticket it is not routed '& connections' and therefore is booked trains only. As the Op has no reservation between Plymouth and Exeter, if the Op boarded a reservable service for that part of the journey, it would be a clear change of travel plans. given Truro ticket office should be open (according to the FRPP) the only option for the Guard/TM (by the book) is a new ticket. If the Op has split tickets and the relevant one is routed '& connections' then that might be different.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,430
Location
Yorkshire
What rules are unclear exactly?
Well, you tell me which rule prevents the customer using a reservable train when he doesn't hold a reservation for that portion of the journey.
If it is a through ticket it is not routed '& connections' and therefore is booked trains only.
You and I both know that there is an oversight here, and you have admitted in previous discussions that your strict interpretation could mean that the customer can't travel until reaching the first reserved train, which would not make sense at all.

The wording is most unsatisfactory I think we both agree on that?
 

hairyhandedfool

Established Member
Joined
14 Apr 2008
Messages
8,837
Well, you tell me which rule prevents the customer using a reservable train when he doesn't hold a reservation for that portion of the journey.

The ticket is only valid on booked trains unless routed '& connections'. Therefore, not having a reservation for a reservable service is a clear change of travel plans as the through tickets are not routed '& connections'.

....You and I both know that there is an oversight here, and you have admitted in previous discussions that your strict interpretation could mean that the customer can't travel until reaching the first reserved train, which would not make sense at all.

The wording is most unsatisfactory I think we both agree on that?

The wording isn't good, however my 'interpretation' was that unreservable services must still be considered booked. The point I made in previous discussion was that if they were not, then you could not use the ticket, and as you say, that makes no sense, but it is the only alternative assumption that can be drawn from the conditions.

There are four ways to clarify the situation.

1) Re-write the conditions.

2) Issue reservation coupons (with stars in place of seat numbers) for all non-reservable services.

3) Where there is a non-reservable service involved, only offer 'Advance' fares routed '& connections' for the journey.

4) Only offer 'Advance' fares where all services can be booked.

Number 3 would appear to be the best one for most parties, but would you like to be the one that says a 'FGW only' ticket cannot be bought for use on an FGW service?

Number 2 is infact the most logical and probably simplest option, but then we are eroding what little flexibility the 'Advance' fare has!
 

MikeWh

Established Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
15 Jun 2010
Messages
7,865
Location
Crayford
2) Issue reservation coupons (with stars in place of seat numbers) for all non-reservable services.

Number 2 is infact the most logical and probably simplest option, but then we are eroding what little flexibility the 'Advance' fare has!

I'll go with number 2 if you can tell me how to tell which tube train I am booked on when crossing London.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top