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Has the line between Northolt Junction and Old Oak Common Junction closed?

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adamskiodp

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Hi folks, I hope you’re all safe and well.

I’ve just been mooching about on the Carto Meteo map and noticed that the link between Northolt Junction and Old Oak Common Junction is closed. When did this happen?

Does this mean that Chiltern main line services can no longer use Paddington when there is engineering works?

Thanks for any info.

Regards,

Adam
 
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Watershed

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Hi folks, I hope you’re all safe and well.

I’ve just been mooching about on the Carto Meteo map and noticed that the link between Northolt Junction and Old Oak Common Junction is closed. When did this happen?

Does this mean that Chiltern main line services can no longer use Paddington when there is engineering works?

Thanks for any info.

Regards,

Adam
The last Chiltern service ran on 7th December 2018, and I would have thought that de facto closure would have occurred very shortly afterwards.

Yes, Chiltern can no longer run into Paddington as their drivers (and conductors - this was one little bit of their network that never got made DOO) don't sign the route any more. They replaced the Paddington service with an SX midday roundtrip to West Ealing (from South Ruislip, to High Wycombe). The shuttle is still running, but currently as an empty stock movement only.

This is supposedly a Parliamentary service to prevent the New North Main Line's closure from having to go through ORR procedures. I suspect the ORR and DfT really ought to have ratified this, but in practice...

There are long-term suggestions the route will be reinstated for Chiltern services to Old Oak Common, once HS2 has been built underneath the current formation.
 
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RPM

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It would still be possible to route Chiltern weekend services into PAD for engineering works. It would just have to be done via West Ealing and it would require freight drivers to be brought in to drive or conduct the trains. Guards are only required for the Absolute Block section through Greenford so Chiltern guards could still be used. The fact they don't sign the route between West Ealing and PAD shouldn't matter.
In fact the last time Chiltern services were diverted into PAD, Freightliner drivers were used because by that time only 16 Chiltern drivers still signed the route and that wasn't enough to run the service.
 

Watershed

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It would just have to be done via West Ealing and it would require freight drivers to be brought in to drive or conduct the trains.
In other words, it isn't possible now or at any point in the foreseeable near future - because operators in this country do not currently allow more than one person in the cab, except for training as part of a bubble.

AB does not require a guard - there are DOO services that operate in AB areas - and this line is TCB anyway. Guards are not required because of anything to do with AB.
 
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Gloster

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Guards are only required for the Absolute Block section through Greenford so Chiltern guards could still be used.

Is it Absolute Block? There may still be semaphore signals there, but isn’t it Track Circuit Block in all three directions?
 

superjohn

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In fact the last time Chiltern services were diverted into PAD, Freightliner drivers were used because by that time only 16 Chiltern drivers still signed the route and that wasn't enough to run the service.
Out of interest, why do Freightliner have drivers who are passed into Paddington? How do they maintain the knowledge?
 

ANDREW_D_WEBB

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It would still be possible to route Chiltern weekend services into PAD for engineering works. It would just have to be done via West Ealing and it would require freight drivers to be brought in to drive or conduct the trains. Guards are only required for the Absolute Block section through Greenford so Chiltern guards could still be used. The fact they don't sign the route between West Ealing and PAD shouldn't matter.
In fact the last time Chiltern services were diverted into PAD, Freightliner drivers were used because by that time only 16 Chiltern drivers still signed the route and that wasn't enough to run the service.
The last engineering diversions when Marylebone has been closed has seen a half hourly service divert into West Ealing with passengers changing there for services into the centre of London. Generally 2tph running non stop along the Greenford branch. The GWR service is suspended for the duration. Doubtless their are good reasons why Chiltern can’t serve the intermediate stations on the branch. The lack of platforms on the low level lines at Greenford obviously preclude calling there.
 

Gloster

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Doubtless their are good reasons why Chiltern can’t serve the intermediate stations on the branch. The lack of platforms on the low level lines at Greenford obviously preclude calling there.

Aren’t the stations on the branch only two-coach lengths, which would make Chiltern’s trains serving them problematic?
 

RPM

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Is it Absolute Block? There may still be semaphore signals there, but isn’t it Track Circuit Block in all three directions?
Not sure of the exact reason why guards are required but it's something to do with running through Greenford signalling area. Yes I meant semaphore rather than AB.

Out of interest, why do Freightliner have drivers who are passed into Paddington? How do they maintain the knowledge?
They learnt/refreshed the route especially for the job. We had them riding up front on the Parliamentary doing route learning for several weeks prior to the diversions.

In other words, it isn't possible now or at any point in the foreseeable near future - because operators in this country do not currently allow more than one person in the cab, except for training as part of a bubble
True, but I'd like to think the situation might improve across the next twelve months. Hopefully.
 
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Ianno87

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The last engineering diversions when Marylebone has been closed has seen a half hourly service divert into West Ealing with passengers changing there for services into the centre of London. Generally 2tph running non stop along the Greenford branch. The GWR service is suspended for the duration. Doubtless their are good reasons why Chiltern can’t serve the intermediate stations on the branch. The lack of platforms on the low level lines at Greenford obviously preclude calling there.

Not sure of the exact reason why guards are required but it's something to do with running through Greenford signalling area. Yes I meant semaphore rather than AB.


They learnt/refreshed the route especially for the job. We had them riding up front on the Parliamentary doing route learning for several weeks prior to the diversions.


True, but I'd like to think the situation might improve across the next twelve months. Hopefully.

Although getting paths into Paddington will be difficult once Crossrail is fully up and running on the Relief Lines.
 

a good off

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DOO is only authorised on lines with continuous train detection, ie TCB. Having said that, the new line via Greenford was all TCB anyway.
 

Mojo

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Does anyone know which section exactly is closed / blocked for the HS2 works and what is being done? Having travelled along the Central line from Greenford to North Acton there is nowhere immediately apparent that any work is taking place.

Looking at the maps on the DfT website (in particular the map called “Great Western mainline (sheet 1 of 4)” it looks as if this line will be connected into the new GWML platforms at Old Oak Common as it is highlighted in grey at the bottom left of the map.
 

The Planner

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Does anyone know which section exactly is closed / blocked for the HS2 works and what is being done? Having travelled along the Central line from Greenford to North Acton there is nowhere immediately apparent that any work is taking place.

Looking at the maps on the DfT website (in particular the map called “Great Western mainline (sheet 1 of 4)” it looks as if this line will be connected into the new GWML platforms at Old Oak Common as it is highlighted in grey at the bottom left of the map.
It is closed effectively from the Tarmac Park Royal sidings. It is down to the changes having to be made around the Old Oak Common lane area and the bridge over the road. The last plan I saw has the line going into its own separate platform at OOC with no connection to the GWML.
 

Bletchleyite

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It is closed effectively from the Tarmac Park Royal sidings. It is down to the changes having to be made around the Old Oak Common lane area and the bridge over the road. The last plan I saw has the line going into its own separate platform at OOC with no connection to the GWML.

Nothing like planning for the future, is there?
 

Ianno87

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Still boils down to whether you could get to Paddington or not, the general consensus still seems to be no, either planned or unplanned.

And, pathing issues aside, a physical route to Paddington still exists via West Ealing.
 

SynthD

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Has Chiltern’s right to divert into Paddington ended? I think Chiltern never used the West Ealing route but another TOC did.
 

Non Multi

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Has Chiltern’s right to divert into Paddington ended? I think Chiltern never used the West Ealing route but another TOC did.
Virgin West Coast used the route with Voyagers and cl57+MK3 rake for Euston - West Midlands 'Blocade busters' (via the Chiltern Main Line), when the southern WCML was closed.
 

mr_jrt

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Still think it would have made more sense to have built the flyover as originally planned - primarily as future proofing, but also that way the Chiltern services could terminate in the centre roads of the GWML relief lines and have cross-platform interchange to Crossrail in both directions. Might want a long turnback east of OOC between the running lines for Chiltern services to get them out of the way of the Crossrail services, though.

Admittedly, terminal platforms in the OOC 'V' will still offer that cross-platform interchange towards London, but still.
 
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