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Vaccine Progress, Approval, and Deployment

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Philip

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Why do some here think vaccination progress is the only measurement they'll use about deciding when to end lockdown? If by mid-late February, case numbers are back down to around 10,000 or less, this in itself will have a big impact on hospital numbers, so why would the government persist with tough restrictions then?
 
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kristiang85

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"Mark Drakeford said one of the reasons more of the supply had not been used at once was to prevent "vaccinators standing around with nothing to do".

What the actual.......??? Wales, you need to get rid of this clown ASAP!

The beggars belief. It looks like he's drunk on his new found powers.
 

DustyBin

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Why do some here think vaccination progress is the only measurement they'll use about deciding when to end lockdown? If by mid-late February, case numbers are back down to around 10,000 or less, this in itself will have a big impact on hospital numbers, so why would the government persist with tough restrictions then?

They have insinuated that that’s the strategy on more than one occasion. That said, I don’t recall the government explicitly stating this, so you may have a point. It does seem likely though that at this stage they’ll want to see the four priority groups vaccinated before easing anything.
 

ainsworth74

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Surely after a few weeks of operations, there will be lots of things that they've worked out, and some downtime to streamline the process would be ideal, never mind if the vaccine supplies arrive earlier than expected.

According to the Telegraph, the government plans to Vaccinate everyone by June (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion...Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1610918559)

It only took maybe half a dozen or so proclamations of unbridled joy to be very rapidly shown to be completely idiotic for Downing Street to learn that you should always under promise and over deliver? Well, colour me surprised.
 

Yew

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It would be good if that did come to fruition!
There's also talk of Doing 3.8Million vaccinations next week..


All over-50s could be vaccinated by the end of March under plans to increase the provision of coronavirus jabs.

The government is preparing to more than double the pace of the programme next week with vaccines for as many as half a million people a day.



Ministers believe that they will have enough doses to hit Boris Johnson’s target of inoculating the 15 million most vulnerable people by February 15.

A senior Whitehall source told The Times they were increasingly confident that all 32 million over-50s could receive their first vaccine dose by mid to late March.

Confidential figures published by the Scottish government suggest that 3.8 million vaccinations will be carried out next week alone, eclipsing the 3 million carried out so far.
 

ainsworth74

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Perhaps I've missed something but I was under the impression that Wales had decided to stick to the original protocol for the vaccine so is having to manage their supply with a view to doing second injections in as larger a number as first injections. Unlike England where it's jab baby jab and we'll worry about the second dose sometime in the non-specific future?
 

Domh245

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"Mark Drakeford said one of the reasons more of the supply had not been used at once was to prevent "vaccinators standing around with nothing to do".

What the actual.......??? Wales, you need to get rid of this clown ASAP!

I really hope for his sake that there's some other medical justification behind this than how it would appear on first reading, otherwise it does sound criminally negligent

Perhaps I've missed something but I was under the impression that Wales had decided to stick to the original protocol for the vaccine so is having to manage their supply with a view to doing second injections in as larger a number as first injections. Unlike England where it's jab baby jab and we'll worry about the second dose sometime in the non-specific future?

I thought all of the UK's Chief medical officers had endorsed the move to the 12 week strategy - would be odd if the welsh CMO endorsed that move and then was ignored
 

ainsworth74

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I thought all of the UK's Chief medical officers had endorsed the move to the 12 week strategy - would be odd if the welsh CMO endorsed that move and then was ignored

Like I said it was an impression. Not living in Wales I've not been paying close attention! So I'm open to correction/new information :)
 

Dent

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Perhaps I've missed something but I was under the impression that Wales had decided to stick to the original protocol for the vaccine so is having to manage their supply with a view to doing second injections in as larger a number as first injections. Unlike England where it's jab baby jab and we'll worry about the second dose sometime in the non-specific future?

Within 12 weeks of the first dose is hardly "sometime in the non-specific future".
 

Domh245

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Like I said it was an impression. Not living in Wales I've not been paying close attention! So I'm open to correction/new information :)

Public Health Wales' website talks about an up to 12 week delay, which confirms they're following the same plan

Rescheduling the second COVID-19 vaccine appointment​

Due to new advice from the UK Chief Medical Officers on 30 December 2020, we need to reschedule the second coronavirus vaccination appointment for those who have already had one dose. The new medical advice is that the second dose of the vaccine remains effective when given up to 12 weeks after the first dose, and should be given towards the end of this 12 week period. The new guidance will ensure that as many people as possible benefit from the first dose of the vaccine as soon as possible. If you have received a first dose, you do not need to contact the health board, you will be automatically re-scheduled and called for your new appointment.

While two doses of the vaccine are needed to get the best long-term protection, in the short-term individuals will have high levels of protection from the first dose received. There are no safety concerns in the new guidance, and it will not negatively impact on the effectiveness of the complete course of COVID-19 vaccine.

A little more reading up on this scandal turns up this quote from a spokesman

Following an outcry, a Welsh government spokesperson insisted that it was on course to vaccinate all members of the top four priority groups by mid-February.

The spokesperson did not repeat Drakeford’s reasoning but said it was organising the distribution of the Pfizer vaccine in such a way as to avoid wastage.

“The Pfizer vaccine comes in large packs, which cannot be split and must be stored at ultra-low temperatures – at -70c. There are only two centres in Wales where we can keep them at this temperature. Once removed from storage, the vaccine lasts five-days. Every dose wasted is a vaccine which cannot be given to someone in Wales. Health boards are receiving all the doses of Pfizer they can use.”

Which seems a world apart from what Drakeford said, but also counterintuitive. My reading of that would be that they don't have the staffing/infrastructure to use a full pack of 975 doses within 5 days (the exact opposite of what Drakeford said and cause for alarm by itself, why don't they have that capacity), but I'm happy to be convinced that this is somehow a genuine good cause for the slow rate
 

ainsworth74

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Public Health Wales' website talks about an up to 12 week delay, which confirms they're following the same plan



A little more reading up on this scandal turns up this quote from a spokesman



Which seems a world apart from what Drakeford said, but also counterintuitive. My reading of that would be that they don't have the staffing/infrastructure to use a full pack of 975 doses within 5 days (the exact opposite of what Drakeford said and cause for alarm by itself, why don't they have that capacity), but I'm happy to be convinced that this is somehow a genuine good cause for the slow rate
Interesting, thank you!
 

packermac

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Surely after a few weeks of operations, there will be lots of things that they've worked out, and some downtime to streamline the process would be ideal, never mind if the vaccine supplies arrive earlier than expected.

According to the Telegraph, the government plans to Vaccinate everyone by June (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion...Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1610918559)
Yes but that is not currently a publically stated goal. It may as said be an internal government goal or it may just be fake news.
I believe the publically stated goal is the end of September.
 

Crossover

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Perhaps I've missed something but I was under the impression that Wales had decided to stick to the original protocol for the vaccine so is having to manage their supply with a view to doing second injections in as larger a number as first injections. Unlike England where it's jab baby jab and we'll worry about the second dose sometime in the non-specific future?

Regarding England, word on the ground locally (West Yorkshire) is that vaccinations in our local town are being conducted to include an appointment for a return 12 weeks later for the follow up. If this is the case then the follow up is currently very specific. Whether this is repeated elsewhere, I don’t know
 

brad465

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Yes but that is not currently a publically stated goal. It may as said be an internal government goal or it may just be fake news.
I believe the publically stated goal is the end of September.
Given all the targets they've either hit late or not hit at all in this pandemic so far, it wouldn't surprise me if they internally aimed hard and fast but publicly stated something less ambitious so the impression of things being on time or even ahead of schedule exists.
 

Yew

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Yes but that is not currently a publically stated goal. It may as said be an internal government goal or it may just be fake news.
I believe the publically stated goal is the end of September.
I'd suggest that is best directed at the Telegraph complaints department, rather than me :D
 

HSTEd

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If they need to use mass vaccination centres they should use them.

It is cheaper to pay for taxis to drive everyone to their nearest centre than slow down the rate of adminstration.
 

Ediswan

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I found the R4 "Today" interview with Drakeford. It starts at 1:35:20, vaccines come up at 1:39:40. The question "Why not roll out all the doses immediately ?" comes at 1:40:30.

I almost got the impression that he knew there was a sound reason, but either didn't know the detail, or didn't understand it, so resorted to extemporsing, otherwise know as "making things up".
 

Bertie the bus

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Boris said yesterday the next category of people would start to be contacted this week and this morning my mother, who is in priority group 3, got a phone call from the doctor's and has her appointment on Thursday. So in the grim North West things seem to be going pretty well.
 

HSTEd

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Surely we should be able to vaccinate 7 days a week?
Well I suppose right now our ability to inject vaccine has dramatically overshot our ability to obtain more vaccine.

So clinics only run some days a week, and they probably all chose not to operate on sunday.
 

Spamcan81

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Regarding England, word on the ground locally (West Yorkshire) is that vaccinations in our local town are being conducted to include an appointment for a return 12 weeks later for the follow up. If this is the case then the follow up is currently very specific. Whether this is repeated elsewhere, I don’t know

A friend of mine and his wife from Dewsbury had their jab a couple of days ago and got their appointment for a second jab in 11 weeks time.
 

WelshBluebird

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Yes they should - and clearly they are to some extent.
Though it is worth remembering travel by public transport in some areas is basically non existent or at least vastly reduced on a Sunday so that may not help for some of the population either. Probably not a massive deal, but worth keeping in mind especially for the places that will be vaccinating people from a larger area.
 

6862

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Though it is worth remembering travel by public transport in some areas is basically non existent or at least vastly reduced on a Sunday so that may not help for some of the population either. Probably not a massive deal, but worth keeping in mind especially for the places that will be vaccinating people from a larger area.

A good point - I was referring to simply the act of jabbing needles into arms on a Sunday, my original comment about it being a Sunday was intended to encompass all the potential issues with actually doing this in practice.
 

takno

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Though it is worth remembering travel by public transport in some areas is basically non existent or at least vastly reduced on a Sunday so that may not help for some of the population either. Probably not a massive deal, but worth keeping in mind especially for the places that will be vaccinating people from a larger area.
They should have a lottery on Sundays. People near a test centre should be able to buy tickets for a quid a go for a chance of getting the jab. Might offset some of the cost.
 

johntea

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The hospital where I work were literally begging workers to just walk in for a vaccine this morning as they apparently had a load going spare that would otherwise expire by a certain time in the morning

I believe they're using the Pfizer vaccine, is it a case of once they're taken out of the freezer they can't go back in? Seems a bit of a shame to just go to waste like that
 
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