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Your first car

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delticdave

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MK3 RS, tweaked by Ford from new using their optional upgrade (it came as standard on the final limited edition but mine is a regular model). It actually makes 375hp/370bhp, apologies I was in autopilot there.
That would be the Mountune upgrade?

SEAT / Cupra have done something similar with the last Leon ST (Sports Tourer / estate car...) R - with a "factory-fitted" ABT tune, circa 50 PS more. There's one for sale at a tempting price, but I'm probably too "large"to be comfortable, whereas a Mk. 7 Golf is OK for me.

The current Focus is a bigger car than before, the ST is quick enough for me but I'd want an auto & their new transaxle doesn't really a great tranny. (AFAIK).

Probably stay with VAG's DSG's, we're happy with ours.
 
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DustyBin

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That would be the Mountune upgrade?

SEAT / Cupra have done something similar with the last Leon ST (Sports Tourer / estate car...) R - with a "factory-fitted" ABT tune, circa 50 PS more. There's one for sale at a tempting price, but I'm probably too "large"to be comfortable, whereas a Mk. 7 Golf is OK for me.

The current Focus is a bigger car than before, the ST is quick enough for me but I'd want an auto & their new transaxle doesn't really a great tranny. (AFAIK).

Probably stay with VAG's DSG's, we're happy with ours.

Yes that’s the one although there was no reference to Mountune this time around (and no yellow badge!).

The Leon is the same size as the Golf isn’t it, or are you more concerned about the seats?

The current Focus is quite a big car as you say, I just can’t get away with the styling. I looked at getting a new ST as my daily car but I couldn’t warm to it; objectively it’s a very good car though. The auto has just been released, the magazines seem to like it but whether it’s reliable in the long term we’ll have to see! I ended up with a limited edition Fiesta ST incidentally, it’s very orange....

There’s nothing wrong with VAG cars, my only criticism is that the hot hatches such as the Golf R, Audi S3, RS3 etc. are a little “sensible”. That does have its advantages though when just trying to get from A to B, and you probably don’t have to worry about where you park them so much. The RS3 sounds great, I had a 5-cylinder Focus a few years ago which made a similar “warble”.
 

Eyersey468

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I've spent less than £10k buying 5 cars in 15 years, the most expensive was a new Fiesta 1.25 Style 5dr in 2006 that I paid £9k for, effectively the finance was interest free as the discount I got was more than the interest
 

delticdave

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Yes that’s the one although there was no reference to Mountune this time around (and no yellow badge!).

The Leon is the same size as the Golf isn’t it, or are you more concerned about the seats?

The current Focus is quite a big car as you say, I just can’t get away with the styling. I looked at getting a new ST as my daily car but I couldn’t warm to it; objectively it’s a very good car though. The auto has just been released, the magazines seem to like it but whether it’s reliable in the long term we’ll have to see! I ended up with a limited edition Fiesta ST incidentally, it’s very orange....

There’s nothing wrong with VAG cars, my only criticism is that the hot hatches such as the Golf R, Audi S3, RS3 etc. are a little “sensible”. That does have its advantages though when just trying to get from A to B, and you probably don’t have to worry about where you park them so much. The RS3 sounds great, I had a 5-cylinder Focus a few years ago which made a similar “warble”.
The Leon v a Mk 7 Golf thing is, for me that the Golf has more elbow room & giving more space for the front seat occupants.
The New Leon is bigger, (it has the longer wheelbase version of the current VAG MQB (Golf 8, A3, etc. platform), but like all the new similar VAG models (except the new A3) the sensible HVAC buttons have been replaceby a touchscreen, which is really not to our taste. The 5-cylinder RS3 is a bit "nose-heavy", to the point that the front wheels / tyres are larger than the rears....

(SWMBO is a decent driver & enjoys her own Golf R Estate, which replaced a Mk.2 Octy vRS. When we met she had a 2.0 TSi VW Eos which was a fun drive, especially after a stage 1 remap. She also owned a RX8 for a year, but that's a different story....)

FWIW we both like "sensible" fun cars, at our great age (70+) maybe that's not too surprising.....

Just to make things worst, my daily driver is a 9 year old Mk. 2 Superb 2.0 TSi, 6-speed DSG & another stage 1 remap. I've owned it since February 2013, & can't find a replacement at a sensible price. It's quick enough for me, (147 mph according to Skoda), it's comfortable, nicely appointed, cheap to run, + it's invisible to everyone except Skoda fans.
 

dgl

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My first one I've just sold was a W reg Vauxhall Agila, ideal for someone tall as you say, and cheap to run.

It gets slated but I absolutely loved it, and my colleagues were always impressed with it's low mileage (48k) and even as a 1.0 the mpg was high, a round trip to Cleveland from Wiltshire on a rough 550 - 600 miles cost me under £40, as only had to fill up once (granted I was on quarter of a tank when I got home, but still!) and does 70mph quite happily, noisy but expected! Passed the MOT every time as well
My Uncle had two Wagon R+'s, the first being his only new car brought in 2004 on an 04 plate to replace a C reg 340, I remember the first time my Auntie took us out in it a lorry nearly wrote it off!
Great for my Uncle who was really tall (supposedly the tallest vicar in England at some point) and fitted him perfectly.
Both seemed to have regular Suzuki levels of reliability and were only replaced due to being written off (which surprisingly given his poor driving wasn't his fault!). A thoroughly decent car.
He later got a K13 Micra to replace the second Wagon R+ and looked absolutely silly driving it and must have been uncomfortable, and I wouldn't have wanted to sit behind him in the back!

And yes the Vauxhall Agila A was the Wagon R+ (the Wagon R being the smaller non-UK Kei car variant) and the later Agila B was a Suzuki Splash, although the Agila A, at least, used different engines to the Suzuki with the Wagon R+ coming with a 1.3 Suzuki engine and the Agila with a choice of either a 1.0 or 1.2 GM engine.
 
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DustyBin

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The Leon v a Mk 7 Golf thing is, for me that the Golf has more elbow room & giving more space for the front seat occupants.
The New Leon is bigger, (it has the longer wheelbase version of the current VAG MQB (Golf 8, A3, etc. platform), but like all the new similar VAG models (except the new A3) the sensible HVAC buttons have been replaceby a touchscreen, which is really not to our taste. The 5-cylinder RS3 is a bit "nose-heavy", to the point that the front wheels / tyres are larger than the rears....

(SWMBO is a decent driver & enjoys her own Golf R Estate, which replaced a Mk.2 Octy vRS. When we met she had a 2.0 TSi VW Eos which was a fun drive, especially after a stage 1 remap. She also owned a RX8 for a year, but that's a different story....)

FWIW we both like "sensible" fun cars, at our great age (70+) maybe that's not too surprising.....

Just to make things worst, my daily driver is a 9 year old Mk. 2 Superb 2.0 TSi, 6-speed DSG & another stage 1 remap. I've owned it since February 2013, & can't find a replacement at a sensible price. It's quick enough for me, (147 mph according to Skoda), it's comfortable, nicely appointed, cheap to run, + it's invisible to everyone except Skoda fans.

At least at 70+ you’re still enjoying driving and have some interesting cars too!

The RS3 is indeed very nose heavy, I believe the larger front wheels were a mid-life “quick fix” to try and combat the under-steer. I watched a review a few years ago where they timed an RS3 and a Golf R on track and the Golf spanked it despite the Audis straight line advantage; that told me everything I needed to know!
 

ac6000cw

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There’s a lot (well, something!) to be said for slow cars especially if they happen to have a decent chassis. Being able to drive enthusiastically without doing anything illegal is great fun. My mother had a 1.0 Focus until recently, with 125bhp it perhaps wasn’t slow-slow but it wasn’t exactly a rocket ship. In every other respect though it was a good drivers car.
Yes - I've mostly owned small cars that are nice/fun to drive. It's the same with motorcycles - I owned a 750cc BMW at one point, but probably the most fun overall was 500cc V4 Honda, which combined a lovely engine with a relatively small frame - a 'pocket rocket', and plenty fast enough for anyone, really.

Biggest engined cars I've driven were a couple of American 3 litre V6's (one GM, one Chrysler) in rental cars - the Chrysler one was in a Voyager MPV, with a group of UK rail enthusiasts as passengers, and it was sufficiently pokey to elicit a concerned comment from one of them at the rate we were accelerating when I put 'pedal to the metal' and the auto 'box kicked down a gear or two - Grin :D

(on the other hand, one of the worst rental cars I've driven was also a Chrysler - it had a 2.5 litre 4-cylinder engine which really did sound like the proverbial 'washing machine full of nuts and bolts' when revved...)
 

Richard Scott

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Biggest engined cars I've driven were a couple of American 3 litre V6's (one GM, one Chrysler) in rental cars - the Chrysler one was in a Voyager MPV, with a group of UK rail enthusiasts as passengers, and it was sufficiently pokey to elicit a concerned comment from one of them at the rate we were accelerating when I put 'pedal to the metal' and the auto 'box kicked down a gear or two - Grin :D
I have yet to find anything affordable that sounds better than an Alfa V6 at full chat!!!
 

83G/84D

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My first car was a W registration Mk2 Ford Escort! It was beige and was an ex police car that had a gap in the interior roof fabric where the wiring etc went through for the roof mounted blue lamp. I was around 18 and had passed my test initially on a motorcycle. After using this (a Kawasaki) for around 12 months I got fed up of reliability issues, getting wet and cold and the danger of falling off going over slippery manhole covers so got the Escort. I can't recall how much it cost at the time.
 

ac6000cw

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I have yet to find anything affordable that sounds better than an Alfa V6 at full chat!!!
Yes, there's something about the 'music' from V-form engines that's hard to beat - after all, can you imagine a Harley-Davidson without that 45-degree V-twin sound? (or an AC-Cobra without the V8, or a cl.37 without the V12 'bark')
 

DelW

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Biggest engined cars I've driven were a couple of American 3 litre V6's (one GM, one Chrysler) in rental cars - the Chrysler one was in a Voyager MPV, with a group of UK rail enthusiasts as passengers, and it was sufficiently pokey to elicit a concerned comment from one of them at the rate we were accelerating when I put 'pedal to the metal' and the auto 'box kicked down a gear or two - Grin :D
The last American hire car I drove, for a week in southern California over five years ago now, was a convertible Mustang with the 5.0 litre V8. Blipping the throttle sounded great, especially with the hood down :lol:. It actually drove pretty well, too, unlike a lot of US cars.
When I needed to change my UK car last year, I was almost tempted by an RHD version, but the thought of using half a gallon of petrol (at our prices) to go to Sainsbury's and back brought me back to earth.
 

jfollows

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The last American hire car I drove, for a week in southern California over five years ago now, was a convertible Mustang with the 5.0 litre V8. Blipping the throttle sounded great, especially with the hood down :lol:. It actually drove pretty well, too, unlike a lot of US cars.
When I needed to change my UK car last year, I was almost tempted by an RHD version, but the thought of using half a gallon of petrol (at our prices) to go to Sainsbury's and back brought me back to earth.
I bought a 5L Mustang in the USA in 1991 (my first car bought new!) and brought it back to the UK in 1992, I ran it here until 1996. 22mpg I reckon.
My last car was a 5L Jaguar XFR, sold a couple of years ago because I wasn't really using it enough, again 22mpg.
The earlier Mustang drove OK and was predictable when it didn't.

EDIT I would certainly consider buying a RHD 5L Mustang in the UK now, I didn't have a big problem with LHD (Roundabouts! Ticket machines!) but a few years ago I thought about importing another one and it didn't really make sense. The car itself isn't wildly expensive so it probably comes down to mileage, and in my case that was never great.
 
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DustyBin

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The last American hire car I drove, for a week in southern California over five years ago now, was a convertible Mustang with the 5.0 litre V8. Blipping the throttle sounded great, especially with the hood down :lol:. It actually drove pretty well, too, unlike a lot of US cars.
When I needed to change my UK car last year, I was almost tempted by an RHD version, but the thought of using half a gallon of petrol (at our prices) to go to Sainsbury's and back brought me back to earth.

Was that a current (S550) shape Mustang? If so they do drive quite well, the whole car is built to meet European expectations and is quite revolutionary by Mustang standards!
 

jfollows

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The last American hire car I drove, for a week in southern California over five years ago now, was a convertible Mustang with the 5.0 litre V8. Blipping the throttle sounded great, especially with the hood down :lol:. It actually drove pretty well, too, unlike a lot of US cars.
When I needed to change my UK car last year, I was almost tempted by an RHD version, but the thought of using half a gallon of petrol (at our prices) to go to Sainsbury's and back brought me back to earth.
I understand, but I always got bored quickly with "sensible" cars (X-reg Escort 1.3, for example, which never let me down but got ditched after 6 months in favour of a 2.8 V6 Capri, no regrets) so I would advise giving in to your inner voice and going for the Mustang ......
 

ac6000cw

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When I needed to change my UK car last year, I was almost tempted by an RHD version, but the thought of using half a gallon of petrol (at our prices) to go to Sainsbury's and back brought me back to earth.
Someone I know owned a big American pickup truck in the UK and had it converted to run on LPG to make the fuel cost more bearable.
 

route101

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06 plate Ford Fiesta, only passed my test in 2014. Bought for around £1500. piece of black trim fell off as I drove back from buying it. Had a misfire and brake problems, so got rid of it for less than half the price I paid for it.

No car since, but its put me off buying second hand cars. Do people generally buy cars on finance?
 

jfollows

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No car since, but its put me off buying second hand cars. Do people generally buy cars on finance?
The thing is, you don't pay VAT on second-hand cars, so the savings can be great. You can buy a one year old car with two years of warranty (or whatever) remaining from a reputable company at 50% of the price of the new car. My last car was such. An earlier car purchase was a PCP finance purchase at 0% interest, but the amount required to buy the car after 3 years was significantly more than it was worth, so I didn't. Horses for courses, and different cases will give different results. But VAT and, now, extra tax is loaded on new cars quite a bit.
However I've been burned with second-hand cars in the past too.
 

DelW

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Was that a current (S550) shape Mustang? If so they do drive quite well, the whole car is built to meet European expectations and is quite revolutionary by Mustang standards!
Yes I think it was, the current model hadn't been out for long but the one we had was almost new. The week before we'd had a Camaro 3.6 V6 coupe that looked great but was a dog to drive, the steering was so vague you daren't take your eyes off the road for more than a second or two since it would wander off course. The Mustang was way better in every way!

I understand, but I always got bored quickly with "sensible" cars (X-reg Escort 1.3, for example, which never let me down but got ditched after 6 months in favour of a 2.8 V6 Capri, no regrets) so I would advise giving in to your inner voice and going for the Mustang ......
I went down the PHEV route instead, so now the Sainsbury's trip is 2kWh from my household supply instead. It does muster 224bhp with both motors running so not entirely without entertainment value ;). Its turbo 3-pot doesn't sound like a V8 though!
 
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90019

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Talking of minimal expenditure on cars, I paid £4000 plus trade-in on a 3 year old Focus in 2004. 13 years later I got £4000 for it under a Mazda 'scrappage' deal.
A few years ago bought a 94 Peugeot 306 for £375 (55k, one owner, totally original), ran it for 18 months, sold it at auction for £500. :D
 

Bald Rick

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The thing is, you don't pay VAT on second-hand cars, so the savings can be great. You can buy a one year old car with two years of warranty (or whatever) remaining from a reputable company at 50% of the price of the new car.

But, the first owner did pay VAT on the car, and to them it was part of the price paid for it, and part of the value of the vehicle.

If you are buying a one year old car at 50% of the price of new, either it is over priced at new, or has done a lot of miles, or a rubbish car, or a combination of all three.

I have sold a one year old car at 100% of the price I bought it for as new. But then it was a great car and in demand.
 

delticdave

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06 plate Ford Fiesta, only passed my test in 2014. Bought for around £1500. piece of black trim fell off as I drove back from buying it. Had a misfire and brake problems, so got rid of it for less than half the price I paid for it.

No car since, but its put me off buying second hand cars. Do people generally buy cars on finance?
AFAIK only about 10% car buyers pay cash (well not actual notes but debit cards or bank transfers......).
Bank loan interest rates are often only 3-3.5%, PCP rates are probably more though.

Someone I know owned a big American pickup truck in the UK and had it converted to run on LPG to make the fuel cost more bearable.
A now departed friend owned an American motor home powered by a big-block Chevy V8, it burned 7 mpg on petrol & 5.5 mpg on LPG.
He replaced it with a diesel Chevy pick-up fitted with a 5th wheel coupling in the bed for the articulated motor home but he only used it for about a year before he passed away.
 
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Bald Rick

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AFAIK only about 10% car buyers pay cash (well not actual notes but debit cards or bank transfers......).
Bank loan interest rates are often only 3-3.5%, PCP rates are probably more though.

That can’t be right. No one in my close family (Parents, in laws, brothers / sisters / in law) has bought a car with any sort of finance in the past 30 years, and we’re talking 50+ cars over that time. (Acknowledging that a small sample is not representative data, and we might be a weird family).
 

Journeyman

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AFAIK only about 10% car buyers pay cash (well not actual notes but debit cards or bank transfers......).
Bank loan interest rates are often only 3-3.5%, PCP rates are probably more though.
I bought my first and so far only car just after my mum died in 2014. I bought a Dacia Sandero Stepway for £9.5k. I traded in my mum's Kia Picanto for £3k, and the rest went on my debit card, also money I'd inherited from her.

I drove the Picanto for a year or so, but hated it. The boot was too small and one of the wing mirrors kept falling off! I know petrolheads scoff at Dacias, but I love my car. It's been impeccably reliable, and the huge boot is the best in class.
 

delticdave

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Yes - I've mostly owned small cars that are nice/fun to drive. It's the same with motorcycles - I owned a 750cc BMW at one point, but probably the most fun overall was 500cc V4 Honda, which combined a lovely engine with a relatively small frame - a 'pocket rocket', and plenty fast enough for anyone, really.

Biggest engined cars I've driven were a couple of American 3 litre V6's (one GM, one Chrysler) in rental cars - the Chrysler one was in a Voyager MPV, with a group of UK rail enthusiasts as passengers, and it was sufficiently pokey to elicit a concerned comment from one of them at the rate we were accelerating when I put 'pedal to the metal' and the auto 'box kicked down a gear or two - Grin :D

(on the other hand, one of the worst rental cars I've driven was also a Chrysler - it had a 2.5 litre 4-cylinder engine which really did sound like the proverbial 'washing machine full of nuts and bolts' when revved...)
I've been lucky with Chrysler cross-pond rentals, 2 X LHS sedans, a 300M & a Cirrus, + a Jeep Cherokee, & a Dodge Intrepid ES.
All modern (at that time, '95-2002) OHC V6's & 4-speed automatic transaxles.

Our 1st trip out there was Xmas '80-'81 New Year, we rented Mercury (a Ford brand) cars, a Bobcat AKA Ford Pinto with a 4-speed manual, a Capri, (AKA Ford Mustang 3-door coupe) & 4 door Monarch sedan, again AKA the US Ford Granada.
We mostly stayed with an old (UK) school friend & drove their 2 Ford LTD's, sedan & wagon, seriously long full-size cars, with big V8's, not much fun though. The best drive was in their neighbours '71 Corvette, small-block V& & 4-speed manual. I was very surprised to be handed the ignition key & offered a drive. Much fun, possibily exceeded the then national 55 mph speed limit....

My most recent trip was to Canada in '08, did 2 one-way rentals, a Chevy Tahoe (large V8 SUV), from Vancouver to Calgary, then fly to Toronto & collected a Toyota Camry Hybrid. Left it in Montreal & flew home from there. Such a contrast, but better economy....

That can’t be right. No one in my close family (Parents, in laws, brothers / sisters / in law) has bought a car with any sort of finance in the past 30 years, and we’re talking 50+ cars over that time. (Acknowledging that a small sample is not representative data, and we might be a weird family).
I wouldn't want to insult your family, (we don't borrow money when we buy a car) but the feedback from various dealers has been "why don't you want finance, no-one uses their own money."....
It's often the case that you can get a bigger discount if you finance a new car, ( often funded by the manufacturer / importer ) but if you do have adequate funds to hand, you can always repay the loan / PCP in the 1st 14 days.........

Carwow price searches often show the difference between cash / credit discounts too.
 
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DustyBin

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That can’t be right. No one in my close family (Parents, in laws, brothers / sisters / in law) has bought a car with any sort of finance in the past 30 years, and we’re talking 50+ cars over that time. (Acknowledging that a small sample is not representative data, and we might be a weird family).

I can well imagine this being the case, not many people can afford to buy a new car outright. Especially not in today’s world where people need to be seen to be “keeping up with the Joneses”. Those low spec Audis, Mercs and Beemers aren’t cheap you know!
 

ABB125

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I can well imagine this being the case, not many people can afford to buy a new car outright. Especially not in today’s world where people need to be seen to be “keeping up with the Joneses”. Those low spec Audis, Mercs and Beemers aren’t cheap you know!
"Only £400 a month" or whatever... :D:D
 

DustyBin

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"Only £400 a month" or whatever... :D:D

Often a fair bit less actually, the German manufacturers offer four year deals so you can buy a £30k car for a couple of hundred a month on PCP (presumably the guaranteed future value is ‘manipulated’ in their favour though). I’ve seen some crazy deals that look like loss leaders.... This is what’s killed off the Mondeo, the average buyer would far rather tell their friends they’ve just ‘bought’ a 3 Series, which if paying monthly they can do so, for less....
 

Richard Scott

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Often a fair bit less actually, the German manufacturers offer four year deals so you can buy a £30k car for a couple of hundred a month on PCP (presumably the guaranteed future value is ‘manipulated’ in their favour though). I’ve seen some crazy deals that look like loss leaders.... This is what’s killed off the Mondeo, the average buyer would far rather tell their friends they’ve just ‘bought’ a 3 Series, which if paying monthly they can do so, for less....
Don't forget there's usually a substantial deposit to be paid, though.
 

DustyBin

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Don't forget there's usually a substantial deposit to be paid, though.

Sorry I should have said, the deposits are often very low too, sometimes as little as one months repayment. I’m going back three or four years here but my friend bought a Golf R and paid £300 deposit and £300 a month which is crazy, I’m certain that was on PCP and not a lease either (I stand to be corrected if anybody here got a similar deal!). The latter incidentally are also very popular and are another ‘cheap’ way for people to drive a car they’d never be able to buy outright.

I have noticed recently that interest rates have crept up which will have affected things somewhat, but going back to my original point there are still plenty of deals on £30k cars that require a £5k or less deposit and then £300 or less a month, so the majority of cars will continue to be bought this way.
 

DelW

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That can’t be right. No one in my close family (Parents, in laws, brothers / sisters / in law) has bought a car with any sort of finance in the past 30 years, and we’re talking 50+ cars over that time. (Acknowledging that a small sample is not representative data, and we might be a weird family).

I wouldn't want to insult your family, (we don't borrow money when we buy a car) but the feedback from various dealers has been "why don't you want finance, no-one uses their own money."....
It's often the case that you can get a bigger discount if you finance a new car, ( often funded by the manufacturer / importer ) but if you do have adequate funds to hand, you can always repay the loan / PCP in the 1st 14 days.........
I suspect the finance system does indeed distort the figures. When I bought my first new car in 2012 (after decades of company cars) I had the cash available, but there was an additional £1000 discount on offer if I used the manufacturer's finance scheme. To get it, I'd have to borrow a minimum of 20% of the price, but there was no minimum term, so I paid 16k directly, borrowed 4k, and paid it off in full in the first month. All this was at the salesman's suggestion.
So I imagine that purchase would count as "on finance" even though I'd bought it outright within a month.
 
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