Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I see that the two rail services that will require bustitution are mid-day services. Were they chosen as they carry lighter loadings than others or was it to fit into the staff training schedule?
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Class 230 units training/introduction on the Borderlands line: updates
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PHILIPE
Veteran Member
I should think the training would be at some time in the late morning/middle of the day
To me it does seem a bit odd to cancel a service to make space for training runs, considering the 230s have been on test runs slotted half hourly between services regularly in the past.
Unless of course the idea is to cancel services so that it frees up crew members for training?
Unless of course the idea is to cancel services so that it frees up crew members for training?
That's the plan as traincrew need to be freed up to enable the 230 training, there's a backlog in staff training and cancellation of the less used services makes Sence.
The testing of 230's is still ongoing as is staff training for Birkenhead North depot.
TFW are also training new traincrew at all depots and MK4 traincrew training aswell as testing and soon training on the 197's.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
"Loadings" is a strange concept for the empty space on board that is normal fare for this line.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Apologies if I did not make my wording intention clear. When I made reference to "loadings", it was the passenger loadings that normally use those two services in comparison to the other daily services on the Borderlands Line.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
In my experience, they are pretty empty off-peak.
Zontar
Member
Was that the one which was in fire a few weeks ago?
6Gtraincrew
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I think it was 008 that had the thermal incident
Zontar
Member
Is that what they call fires these days?!
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Have all the Vivarail units that have been part of an official order have the same air-conditioning fitted as standard? I ask that question on this thread as the units on the Marston Vale line had some reports made about it last year.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The MV units do not have passenger saloon aircon.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Perhaps it was the lack of air-conditioning on the Marston Vale line was the subject of the reports to which I so alluded.
The fire on the 230 was apparently the DPF being blocked and burst into flames, the traincrew couldn't get the fire out after using all extinguishers onboard & the pyrotechnic under solebar extinguishers didn't automatically go off either ! There was no onboard alarms the signaller had to inform the traincrew of the fire via gsmr.
Apparently all testing is being suspended as a result, that's why there's no 230's running around the borderlands.
Apparently all testing is being suspended as a result, that's why there's no 230's running around the borderlands.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Is the number of on-board fire extinguishers supposed to be enough to cope with the majority of fires that may occur?
The fire systems under the sole bar are meant to put out the fire such as this, that's the big issue.
The onboard ones should be in prominent places throughout the train, I am not aware of how many are in a 230.
Zontar
Member
If this is testing stage and the fire extinguishers don't put out a fire, I would be sending them back to vivarail!
seventh-heaven
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As ever there is an element of truth in all this that is extrapolated to assumptions that are not quiet accurate!!
"Thermal Event" as a descripion stems from the automotive industry where the diesel engines come from.
The thermal event on 230008 did manifest itself as a DPF overheating that caused other components around it to also overheat, melt, singe and create an amount of smoke. The fire suppresion system on the unit did its job which is to detect the heat generated by such an issue and trigger the suppression system. There are 2 systems on the 230 - one is mounted in the Genset on the engine and gives an initial burst of suppression with the intention of knocking down any fire. The second stage then kicks in and a large extinguisher mounted on the underframe is triggered and this sprays the problem genset for around 18 to 20 minutes. The intention of this is to meet the necessary fire standard to operate in the UKs longest tunnels - to achieve this standard the train must be able to continue to operate for 15 minutes to allow the Driver to exit the tunnel (if required) and to choose an appropriate place to stop to quickly evacuate the train.
In this instance the fire suppressions systems did their job and although the Fire Brigade was called they quickly inspected the unit with the Vivarail technicians who came from Birkenhead and released the unit back to TfW to enable it to return to the depot for attention. It was confirmed back at the depot that there was no damage to the unit and once the Genset was changed the unit was ready to use once again.
I understand that the current situation is that the units are available for training (all Vivarail testing and approvals was completed some time ago) and the reason that the units are not currently running is that TfW have paused the training due to the summer holiday commitments on the train crew.
Vivarail have stated that the investigation is ongoing, but that there has been nothing found to date that led to an immediate cause for concern on the other similar gensets including those operating on the Marston Vale line, and they have promised that like the investigation into the "Thermal Event" that happened on the prototype 230 when it is concluded the findings will be published.
"Thermal Event" as a descripion stems from the automotive industry where the diesel engines come from.
The thermal event on 230008 did manifest itself as a DPF overheating that caused other components around it to also overheat, melt, singe and create an amount of smoke. The fire suppresion system on the unit did its job which is to detect the heat generated by such an issue and trigger the suppression system. There are 2 systems on the 230 - one is mounted in the Genset on the engine and gives an initial burst of suppression with the intention of knocking down any fire. The second stage then kicks in and a large extinguisher mounted on the underframe is triggered and this sprays the problem genset for around 18 to 20 minutes. The intention of this is to meet the necessary fire standard to operate in the UKs longest tunnels - to achieve this standard the train must be able to continue to operate for 15 minutes to allow the Driver to exit the tunnel (if required) and to choose an appropriate place to stop to quickly evacuate the train.
In this instance the fire suppressions systems did their job and although the Fire Brigade was called they quickly inspected the unit with the Vivarail technicians who came from Birkenhead and released the unit back to TfW to enable it to return to the depot for attention. It was confirmed back at the depot that there was no damage to the unit and once the Genset was changed the unit was ready to use once again.
I understand that the current situation is that the units are available for training (all Vivarail testing and approvals was completed some time ago) and the reason that the units are not currently running is that TfW have paused the training due to the summer holiday commitments on the train crew.
Vivarail have stated that the investigation is ongoing, but that there has been nothing found to date that led to an immediate cause for concern on the other similar gensets including those operating on the Marston Vale line, and they have promised that like the investigation into the "Thermal Event" that happened on the prototype 230 when it is concluded the findings will be published.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
There's a big difference between the explanations in posts #765 and #769 - like chalk and cheese!
Either there was a major systems failure, or there wasn't.
No doubt time will tell, when TfW has the resources to resume training.
Either there was a major systems failure, or there wasn't.
No doubt time will tell, when TfW has the resources to resume training.
Zontar
Member
Thanks for the comprehensive info. Was there any truth to the fire alarm not going off and the signaller having to inform the driver? This IMO is still quiet significant.
Zontar
Member
Anyone got the latest on the units? Must have been over a month since they were on fire and they've not been out....
Apologies if this is covered upthread, but have any of the units been accepted by TfW, and if so have any actually been in passenger service?
And on a related subject, the prototype 230001 seems an elusive beast (if such a term can be applied to a 230). I recall it being exhibited at various events, but has it ever been in regular passenger service - and is it ever expected to be so?
Many thanks
And on a related subject, the prototype 230001 seems an elusive beast (if such a term can be applied to a 230). I recall it being exhibited at various events, but has it ever been in regular passenger service - and is it ever expected to be so?
Many thanks
6Gtraincrew
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006, 007, 008 and 009 have been accepted. No sign of 010 yet. None have been in passenger service.
D365
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It acted as a shunter and R&D unit while at Long Marston. No information as to its future.
Many thanks 6Gtraincrew and D365. So, if I'm understanding correctly, none of 230001, 2300606-230010 have been in passenger service yet.
DavidGrain
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230001 is the VivaRail demonstrator and has seen service in that capacity on demos, 230002 is currently at a tram museum in America.230003-005 in service on the Bletchley-Bedford line.
230006-009 accepted by TfW and being used for driver training, 230010 is still at Long Marston and was used, with permission from TfW, on a shuttle service from Honeybourne to Long Marston during a rail industry exhibition a couple of months ago. The original plan was for GWR to provide this shuttle service from Worcester but because of the problems with the 800 trains GWR was short of stock and unable to provide the service.
230006-009 accepted by TfW and being used for driver training, 230010 is still at Long Marston and was used, with permission from TfW, on a shuttle service from Honeybourne to Long Marston during a rail industry exhibition a couple of months ago. The original plan was for GWR to provide this shuttle service from Worcester but because of the problems with the 800 trains GWR was short of stock and unable to provide the service.
Thanks David - really helpful update
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
The 230s had not worked for a month due to a fire (see up thread) on one and subsequent investigations. until yesterday when 230006 ran empty from Birkenhead North Depot to Chester
D365
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Cheers, I was wondering where 002 had ended up over the pond.
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