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Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

hwl

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Electrifying Leeds to Hull would help with short-term infill such as
- link to East Coasr main line
- to Doncaster
- from Selby north and south
- link to Church Fenton
And longer term :
- to Trans Pennine route near Dewsbury.

I don't quite understand, if you justify electrifying to Blackpool, why not to Hull with about twice the population, much more industry and a rail connected port.
A) viable business cases
B) Other routes have better business cases
C) Hull train bought 802s so run on electric most of the way.
D) It wouldn't just be Hull - Leeds but Temple Hurst Jn - Selby (~5 miles) too
E) York - Leeds has a far better business case and will cover about a fifth of the Leeds - Hull distance reducing the costs and improving the business case Leeds - Hull etc.
F) Phasing schemes (see E) is important overall.
 
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zwk500

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E) York - Leeds has a far better business case and will cover about a fifth of the Leeds - Hull distance reducing the costs and improving the business case Leeds - Hull etc.
F) Phasing schemes (see E) is important.
On that, Doncaster-Hull will probably have a better business case than Micklefield-Hull, which further reduces the costs and increases the benefits of Leeds-Hull as it would only be Micklefield/Sherburn-Selby + Hambleton chords. But we're edging into speculative territory here.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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On that, Doncaster-Hull will probably have a better business case than Micklefield-Hull, which further reduces the costs and increases the benefits of Leeds-Hull as it would only be Micklefield/Sherburn-Selby + Hambleton chords. But we're edging into speculative territory here.
Decarbonisation needs majority of network wired the business case is somewhat immaterial. Whats important is the running order lines are done in to maximise the reduction of diesel working year by year and that needs to involve a rolling stock strategy as well so be interesting to see the govts plans on transport decarbonisation which is allegedly going to be released before parliament rises.
 

hwl

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On that, Doncaster-Hull will probably have a better business case than Micklefield-Hull, which further reduces the costs and increases the benefits of Leeds-Hull as it would only be Micklefield/Sherburn-Selby + Hambleton chords. But we're edging into speculative territory here.
Completely agreed! I stopped before going down the next steps.

Hambleton - Micklefield (7 miles) has potential ECML and new feeder link benefits which would leave Hambleton Jn - Selby (3miles) with just Leeds - Hull service justification (Selby - Hull is 30miles)

Decarbonisation needs majority of network wired the business case is somewhat immaterial. Whats important is the running order lines are done in to maximise the reduction of diesel working year by year and that needs to involve a rolling stock strategy as well so be interesting to see the govts plans on transport decarbonisation which is allegedly going to be released before parliament rises.
Till that happens you still have to get approval from Treasury via the usual means....
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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Till that happens you still have to get approval from Treasury via the usual means....
And afterwards, too, I think.
The Treasury isn't going to give NR (GBR) carte blanche on electrification.
There will always be pressure on costs and priorities, and probably an annual/control period budget cap.
 

snowball

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I think blue must mean "no piling for masts scheduled in the immediate future".

Most of the route was still blue when I last looked a few days ago. In the case of the blue stretch nearest Victoria, that's because it was already wired.

This is the first change since the existence of the map was first pointed out a long way upthread.

The green appears to show that piling has been completed from Bromley Street to the start of the curve at Miles Platting.
 
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59CosG95

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I think blue must mean "no piling for masts scheduled in the immediate future".

Most of the route was still blue when I last looked a few days ago. In the case of the blue stretch nearest Victoria, that's because it was already wired.

This is the first change since the existence of the map was first pointed out a long way upthread.

The green appears to show that piling has been completed from Bromley Street to the start of the curve at Miles Platting.
I'd perhaps surmise that the blue to the east is out of scope for this particular programme of works (i.e. everything west from Staly up to Ashton-u-Lyne - behind the M&S/Sainsbury's from the map), so by a process of elimination that may be in W2a rather than W1. Time, of course, will tell.

Additionally, the wideway between the through lines at Stalybridge has now gained sheets of green tarpaulin. I'm not 100% sure what it's for... https://flic.kr/p/2maAhCj
 

TBY-Paul

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Red, Yellow and Green ok but what does Blue indicate?
Or is that Future upcoming work?

What does the blue section of line represent?

Mmm, the Victoria to collyhurst bit is electrified, so why is the Ashton to stalybridge bit in blue?
I don't suppose the Blue is just to represent the section of line as a whole, where work is taking place, with the Green, Red & Yellow indicating each stage of the work in progress at the time with-in the section.
 

59CosG95

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I don't suppose the Blue is just to represent the section of line as a whole, where work is taking place, with the Green, Red & Yellow indicating each stage of the work in progress at the time with-in the section.
Reading between the lines, I've deduced that the sections start and end at RRAPs (Road-Rail Access Points); the yellow section is between RRAPs at Clayton Bridge LC (on Berry Brow Rd) and one behind the supermarkets (Sains/M&S/IKEA). The red section stretches from that RRAP to wherever the main access point is in the Miles Platting area; I think the westernmost RRAP may even be the Collyhurst St compound (which would likely be out of bounds during the major works beginning in a few days' time).
Basically, the piling teams are based out of Clayton Vale LC, which makes a lot of programme sense to get the piles done further along until after Miles Platting Curve has been eased.

Several bridges between Manchester and Stalybridge were worked on three or four years ago.

The only bridge this can be is at Stamford Street East, Ashton-u-Lyne.

This is on the major bus route between Stalybridge and Ashton. So the bridge works will also delay the bustitution services.

Thanks for the clarification gents. Of interest, there are two further bridges in the Ashton area (Romney St & Queen St) which seem to have closed to vehicles for quite some time now. Is it planned to demolish them?
 
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sportzbar

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Reading between the lines, I've deduced that the sections start and end at RRAPs (Road-Rail Access Points); the yellow section is between RRAPs at Berry Brow LC and one behind the supermarkets (Sains/M&S/IKEA). The red section stretches from that RRAP to wherever the main access point is in the Miles Platting area; I think the westernmost RRAP may even be the Collyhurst St compound (which would likely be out of bounds during the major works beginning in a few days' time).
Basically, the piling teams are based out of Berry Brow, which makes a lot of programme sense to get the piles done further along until after Miles Platting Curve has been eased.




Thanks for the clarification gents. Of interest, there are two further bridges in the Ashton area (Romney St & Queen St) which seem to have closed to vehicles for quite some time now. Is it planned to demolish them?
Romney street is now used as pedestrian access from the houses on one side of the railway to the "Ashton Northern Bypass" as it's officially called. I believe at one point Romney street did continue across but as the bypass was built and being so close to a major junction, it was decided to block access to road traffic. The route across is now pedestrian/cycle only.

Queen Street bridge is again pedestrian/cycle only and has been closed to through traffic for many years. It is a much older bridge than Romney street and the path through is just a mud track surrounded by weeds and ending in cobbles. The bridge is sound but was probably closed to through traffic as it would have cost more to upgrade it than was worth with there really being nowhere to go once across from Queen Street.
 

59CosG95

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Romney street is now used as pedestrian access from the houses on one side of the railway to the "Ashton Northern Bypass" as it's officially called. I believe at one point Romney street did continue across but as the bypass was built and being so close to a major junction, it was decided to block access to road traffic. The route across is now pedestrian/cycle only.

Queen Street bridge is again pedestrian/cycle only and has been closed to through traffic for many years. It is a much older bridge than Romney street and the path through is just a mud track surrounded by weeds and ending in cobbles. The bridge is sound but was probably closed to through traffic as it would have cost more to upgrade it than was worth with there really being nowhere to go once across from Queen Street.
Thanks for the info there @sportzbar. I wonder if either of those bridges will survive electrification works? Not being from the area, I haven't got any perspective of whether there's sufficient clearance (loading or electrical) to keep it as-is. Certainly in Romney St's case, I wouldn't be surprised if a minor intervention to raise the parapets is required.
 

sportzbar

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Thanks for the info there @sportzbar. I wonder if either of those bridges will survive electrification works? Not being from the area, I haven't got any perspective of whether there's sufficient clearance (loading or electrical) to keep it as-is. Certainly in Romney St's case, I wouldn't be surprised if a minor intervention to raise the parapets is required.
I think the only bridge I've heard of ( I live right by the railway so get the notifications directly from Network Rail) that requires substantial work is Stamford St East
 

59CosG95

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I think the only bridge I've heard of ( I live right by the railway so get the notifications directly from Network Rail) that requires substantial work is Stamford St East
That is indeed correct; all the others were done when NWEP was still happening, probably during the "Great Extension Lead" works. (@GRALISTAIR will probably remember better)
I think Stamford St E was left to last as it's the busiest one (IIRC it carries several bus routes) and it's also the widest that isn't a tunnel.

Update for piling next week - more piles are due to be sunk over 5 midweek nights (22:00 to 08:00) between Ashton Moss & Clayton Bridge LC.
 
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59CosG95

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This post on LinkedIn reveals that some of the OLE east of Man Vic has been dewired in advance of the extension eastwards. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/isma...yconsulting-activity-6825067774130364416-2zFP
Elsewhere on LinkedIn, I've found out that the piling team on package W1 (Man Vic - Staly) are due to be doing some work on package W4 (Leeds - Dewsbury) in 'Week 19' (next weekend, 7/8 August), although the work itself wasn't specified. Wouldn't expect it to be anything in the Morley area as that's in W5.
 
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adamedwards

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On the plus side that's very reassuring as it confirms the wires are going up in the Miles Platting project. I was worried the posts might go up but not the wires. Time for a King/Queen of Miles Platting Bank driver challenge assuming the electrics will zoom up it much faster than anything we have now.
 

SuperNova

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On the plus side that's very reassuring as it confirms the wires are going up in the Miles Platting project. I was worried the posts might go up but not the wires. Time for a King/Queen of Miles Platting Bank driver challenge assuming the electrics will zoom up it much faster than anything we have now.
The wires won't be going up. There's several bridge reconstructions happening which involve crane work.
 

Tim_UK

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This post on LinkedIn reveals that some of the OLE east of Man Vic has been dewired in advance of the extension eastwards. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/isma...yconsulting-activity-6825067774130364416-2zFP
Elsewhere on LinkedIn, I've found out that the piling team on package W1 (Man Vic - Staly) are due to be doing some work on package W4 (Leeds - Dewsbury) in 'Week 19' (next weekend, 7/8 August), although the work itself wasn't specified. Wouldn't expect it to be anything in the Morley area as that's in W5.
I went past on a tram this morning and it did look like various bits had been taken down.


Some hangers with no wires. Some of the hangers almost looked like no track below, which made me wonder if some of the tracks will be skewed.

(or maybe they just moved the metal work clear)

The wires are also insulated in platforms 1 and 2 in Victoria.
 

59CosG95

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I went past on a tram this morning and it did look like various bits had been taken down.


Some hangers with no wires. Some of the hangers almost looked like no track below, which made me wonder if some of the tracks will be skewed.

(or maybe they just moved the metal work clear)

The wires are also insulated in platforms 1 and 2 in Victoria.
It was most likely a movement clear to allow the bridge repairs; the equipment will probably be restored verbatim once the blockade is done.
(FYI - the wires would be 'isolated', rather than insulated)
 

snowball

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This post on LinkedIn reveals that some of the OLE east of Man Vic has been dewired in advance of the extension eastwards. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/isma...yconsulting-activity-6825067774130364416-2zFP

Presumably never used! I haven't heard of a spate of electric trains shunting between platforms.

Elsewhere on LinkedIn, I've found out that the piling team on package W1 (Man Vic - Staly) are due to be doing some work on package W4 (Leeds - Dewsbury) in 'Week 19' (next weekend, 7/8 August), although the work itself wasn't specified. Wouldn't expect it to be anything in the Morley area as that's in W5.
That's interesting. I didn't know any work there was imminent.
 

CAF397

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Presumably never used! I haven't heard of a spate of electric trains shunting between platforms.
When Covid first started a Class 319 was put in Platform 2 at Manchester Victoria as an additional messroom. This would've used the wires upto Bromley Street Jn to reverse.
 

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