Blackpool Transport Discussion

CAF397 · 6 Aug 2021

Blackpool Transport had a policy of having no bus in their fleet older than 5 years. That investment in new buses was huge, but they have 15 plate Citaros, and the first batch of 16-plate Enviro 400 City's that are now 5 years old, or older.

I've not seen any news releases about further investments in new buses, are there any new buses due for Blackpool? I realise that 2020/2021 has maybe delayed this policy.

Blackpool Transport announce the purchase of 19 new buses for 2020

Blackpool Transport have announced a deal to purchase 19 buses from Alexander Dennis.

www.blackpooltransport.com

RailUK Forums

cnjb8 · 6 Aug 2021

Covid would have hit their finances hard, so I imagine that policy is on hold. Two 16-plate E400 Citys left the fleet for Warrington over a year ago.

Cesarcollie · 6 Aug 2021

cnjb8 said:
Covid would have hit their finances hard, so I imagine that policy is on hold. Two 16-plate E400 Citys left the fleet for Warrington over a year ago

Probably their £1.5m loss for y/e March 2020 (2021 figures filed but not yet shown) won’t have helped. Though there was an interesting £2m pension scheme ruse with their shareholder to put some cash back in to the company.....!!

CAF397 · 7 Aug 2021

Cheers for that. Not good if they were already losing £1.5m in normal times (2019-2020)!

LOL The Irony · 7 Aug 2021

CAF397 said:
Cheers for that. Not good if they were already losing £1.5m in normal times (2019-2020)!

I think the losses probably came from all the new buses they acquired and they probably expected to make that money back with the 2020 tourist season. Of course, that didn't happen and the 2021 season has been stunted slightly.

Cesarcollie · 7 Aug 2021

LOL The Irony said:
I think the losses probably came from all the new buses they acquired and they probably expected to make that money back with the 2020 tourist season. Of course, that didn't happen and the 2021 season has been stunted slightly.

New buses aren’t accounted for as a revenue item in the year they are purchased. They are capitalised and the cost effectively spread over the anticipated life (typically circa 15 years for a decker). This is called depreciation.

Leedsbusman · 7 Aug 2021

Cesarcollie said:
New buses aren’t accounted for as a revenue item in the year they are purchased. They are capitalised and the cost effectively spread over the anticipated life (typically circa 15 years for a decker). This is called depreciation.

No - but comparing the 2020/1 accounts with 2016/7 shows depreciation up by £1.1mn and interest payments by around 1/2 million. I understand that there have been significant savings in maintenance arising. I understand 403-10 and the Citaros were planned to leave in 2021 but this may have been delayed - though their PVR is still well below normal and has progressively reduced over recent years. Blackpool Council has submitted a bit to the Zero Emission Bus Regional Areas competition so that may well be the next order.

M60lad · 8 Aug 2021

No doubt the new buses they bought are actually paying for themselves with all the Rail work they've been used on out of the area. I could be wrong, though.

For example, they're currently being used on Rochdale-Manchester Victoria Express Rail Replacement, but I'm not too sure whether the vehicles and drivers are being stored in Manchester or going back to Depot at the end of duty each day.

mmh · 4 Sep 2021

I'm currently in Blackpool and am very impressed with how modern, smart and well kept the buses are. An advert for municipal ownership! But I'm wondering why the predominant branding is "Palladium" with a much smaller and almost reticent Blackpool Transport logo. Is this a historic thing?

Leedsbusman · 4 Sep 2021

mmh said:
I'm currently in Blackpool and am very impressed with how modern, smart and well kept the buses are. An advert for municipal ownership! But I'm wondering why the predominant branding is "Palladium" with a much smaller and almost reticent Blackpool Transport logo. Is this a historic thing?

No it’s a current thing. It was applied to all new buses from the Citaros in 2015 and to the Centros when refurbished.

Andyh82 · 4 Sep 2021

mmh said:
I'm currently in Blackpool and am very impressed with how modern, smart and well kept the buses are. An advert for municipal ownership! But I'm wondering why the predominant branding is "Palladium" with a much smaller and almost reticent Blackpool Transport logo. Is this a historic thing?

Basically it’s Blackpool’s version of Sapphire or Stagecoach Gold.

The difference in Blackpool is it’s ended up being expanded across the whole operation, so it’s like an Arriva fleet with every bus in Sapphire livery.

I’m still not entirely sure where Blackpool got all the money from, a decade ago they were generally buying mostly second hand, and then they went and replaced the whole fleet brand new in just a few years.

37114 · 5 Sep 2021

Andyh82 said:
I’m still not entirely sure where Blackpool got all the money from, a decade ago they were generally buying mostly second hand, and then they went and replaced the whole fleet brand new in just a few years.

It is on finance/lease deals from memory. They will have seen a huge reduction on Repair and Maintenance compared to the old fleet which will have helped.

M60lad · 5 Sep 2021

At least 2 of the Blackpool Transport Centros are back at Rosso again for School Services unless 2 of them didn't leave in the first place.

GusB · 29 Mar 2022

Thread reopened for further discussion.

CAF397 · 29 Mar 2022

Newsroom

www.blackpool.gov.uk

115 new electric buses, over the next 3-5 years, after receiving £20m from the government's ZEBRA scheme.

58 Single deck, 57 double deck, which is basically a whole scale like for like replacement of their current fleet.

Also discussed here, but this is specific to the Blackpool fleet.

ZEBRA Discussion

*Mod note - copied from Go NorthEast thread* "Zebra" proposal for the North East (Zero Emission Buses Regional Area scheme). If this bid is approved, it would seem to mostly involve Go North East. Sources - Newcastle Magazine &...

www.railforums.co.uk

MDB1images · 3 Aug 2022

Noted a Wright Electroliner in Rigby Road yard on Tuesday (LY71GJE), presume on trial.

LancasterRed · 14 Nov 2023

Your Routes, Reimagined in January 2024
Today Tue 14th Nov 2023

Big changes are on the horizon for travel in Blackpool, and we're thrilled to share an early insight into what's coming your way. Starting 7th January 2024, we're reimagining our services to make your journeys smoother, more reliable, and easier to navigate with better connections.

What's Changing?
We're simplifying our network with new service names and numbers, but don't worry – most routes will remain familiar. The big news? Easier to use buses, grouped together, getting you get where you need to go, quickly and efficiently.

https://www.blackpooltransport.com/your-routes-reimagined-january-2024

Blackpool Transport are completely revamping their network using grouped buses (5/5A/5B/5C etc) for familiarity and changing some routes to reflect this.

Deerfold · 14 Nov 2023

LancasterRed said:
https://www.blackpooltransport.com/your-routes-reimagined-january-2024

Blackpool Transport are completely revamping their network using grouped buses (5/5A/5B/5C etc) for familiarity and changing some routes to reflect this.

Gosh, that's badly written.

40-minute headways tend to be tricky for passengers to remember, too.

buslad1988 · 15 Nov 2023

That article is awfully written; the whole style and tone is very tacky.

As for the revamp itself; seems very complicated and judging by the reaction on twitter people are confused already about what is/isn’t changing.

Having umpteen variations of a route number can be very messy - and are the number changes simply a way of hiding more wider, subtle cuts?

Towers · 15 Nov 2023

“Reimagined”; yuk!

I can still recall when First ripped up a range of longstanding and universally familiar route networks in various locations as part of an ‘overhaul’ (I don’t remember there being any “reminagining”, thankfully); it wasn’t generally well received from what I saw at the time. Perhaps this will work better, time will tell!

*Any chance of reimagining a trip on the 21 from the Tower to the zoo on a roaring Atlantean?! That’d be grand

158756 · 16 Nov 2023

buslad1988 said:
That article is awfully written; the whole style and tone is very tacky.

As for the revamp itself; seems very complicated and judging by the reaction on twitter people are confused already about what is/isn’t changing.

Having umpteen variations of a route number can be very messy - and are the number changes simply a way of hiding more wider, subtle cuts?

It's a bit difficult to tell with how badly written it is, but there are some cuts I think.

The obvious ones are the 2C (new 5C) and 17 (new 11B) going from 30 to 40 minute intervals. The 11 drops from every 20-ish to every 30 minutes. The 2 and 15 seen to be merged into the 5 group, so I think the total number of buses on the various routes between the town centre and the hospital drops from 8 to 5 or 6 per hour.

With the improvements to the 5 and 6 I guess it might be a wash in terms of vehicles required.

buslad1988 · 16 Nov 2023

158756 said:
It's a bit difficult to tell with how badly written it is, but there are some cuts I think.

The obvious ones are the 2C (new 5C) and 17 (new 11B) going from 30 to 40 minute intervals. The 11 drops from every 20-ish to every 30 minutes. The 2 and 15 seen to be merged into the 5 group, so I think the total number of buses on the various routes between the town centre and the hospital drops from 8 to 5 or 6 per hour.

With the improvements to the 5 and 6 I guess it might be a wash in terms of vehicles required.

Also with the new 3 and (3A) replacing the 4 it says the frequency is every 30 minutes - so that’s a 50% reduction as the 3/4 currently both operate every 30 minutes each.

The 7 seemlessly turning into the 11A also is just so unnecessary - it’s making it complicated by changing numbers mid route simply for the sake of it.

Mwanesh · 16 Nov 2023

One of the few places where it is easy to use buses. They have made it confusing.

Tetchytyke · 17 Nov 2023

Comparing the old and the new network maps, it appears that not that much is actually changing. The routes aren’t changing that much, it’s just the numbers and some of the frequencies. Seems all a little bit pointless unless it is stage one of hiding service cuts.

40 minute frequencies though? They’re always a terrible idea. Too hard to remember.

SW Buses · 8 Jan 2024

Are there any indications, albeit early, on how the changes have gone?

On their new network map the 7 is shown as a through route from Cleveleys to Lytham. Yet the PDF timetable and html timetable show it as Cleveleys to Blackpool Town Centre? There is a note to say 7 becomes and 11, yet the network map shows as 7 throughout?

Also, are there printed timetables available yet to pick up from their travel shop?

markymark2000 · 8 Jan 2024

SW Buses said:
Are there any indications, albeit early, on how the changes have gone?

Many bus stops haven't been updated with the new times/route numbers, they are still referring to the old route numbers on Twitter and there are an absolute ton of complaints, mostly on Facebook. More negative comments than I have seen on a network change in a while. A lot of people seeing through the 'reimagining' and seeing it for what it is for most routes, huge cuts.

I can't provide proof of all of the comments as there are a few on Twitter about the stops not being updated. This was Blackpools Transport response

https://twitter.com/BPL_Transport/status/1744278918771695717

Hi Ian, Nick and Jim are still making their way around the network as fast as they can, but there are so many bus stops, so it can take a while. Everything is up to date on the app, if you need the information from there.

If you were undertaking such a large scale change, surely you'd bring in a few more staff to try and get the bus stop timetables updated quicker? 2 people to change every single bus and tram stop timetable across the Blackpool Transport network, That's a huge undertaking overnight. I do wonder if it could have been split into 2 sets of changes to reduce the amount of bus stop timetables which need updating at once.

1 example of wrong route numbers being used but there are others.

https://twitter.com/BPL_Transport/status/1744370819411644813

Due to staff shortage the following Service 14 will not be in operation - 15.10 Blackpool - Fleetwood , 16.20 Fleetwood - Market St , 17.30 Town - Fleetwood , apologies for any inconvenience caused

SW Buses said:
Also, are there printed timetables available yet to pick up from their travel shop?

Blackpool Transport say on Twitter yes

Hi Will, the team are at Central tomorrow and will have timetables, or the Tourist information Centre have some as well!

LancasterRed · 9 Jan 2024

It's a shame because some of the rebranding ideas were good. "Take any 5" to the Victoria Hospital made sense for one. The 7 going into the 11b and 9 renumbering to 7b are silly in comparison. We can now see it has been a failure which is even more a shame because Blackpool Transport are generally quite good.

On the plus side, the trams are working on bustimes again

Andyh82 · 9 Jan 2024

Doesn’t the general public complain about every bus change? Generally as they ignore all publicity however extensive and then complain that their normal bus isn’t the same as previously.

It’s probably best to see what it’s like in a few weeks time

That news story on their site was very Press release in style though

JD2168 · 31 Jan 2024

Anyone on here know how well these changes are going & have been received by passengers since introduction?

Titfield · 31 Jan 2024

158756 said:
It's a bit difficult to tell with how badly written it is, but there are some cuts I think.

The obvious ones are the 2C (new 5C) and 17 (new 11B) going from 30 to 40 minute intervals. The 11 drops from every 20-ish to every 30 minutes. The 2 and 15 seen to be merged into the 5 group, so I think the total number of buses on the various routes between the town centre and the hospital drops from 8 to 5 or 6 per hour.

With the improvements to the 5 and 6 I guess it might be a wash in terms of vehicles required.

Slightly off topic but what is the consensus of opinion on route numbering?
a) route numbers only but allowing for grouping so that for example 21 22 and 23 have slight routing variations
b) route numbers with suffixes for slight variations eg 21a 21b 21c

Should high frequency routes / main destination routes have low numbers e.g. 3,4,5,6, and less frequent routes higher numbers 31.32.33.

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