Wobbly rails on the ECML

backontrack · 5 Sep 2021

I'm on the southbound Highland Chieftain at the moment, and the train shook horribly between Little and Great Ponton, and again at Yaxley. Of course there's always some shake and wobble, but at Little Ponton it was unnatural. Lots of rattling from the buffet.

Makes me wonder about track maintenance.

Has anyone else experienced this?

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hexagon789 · 5 Sep 2021

backontrack said:
I'm on the southbound Highland Chieftain at the moment, and the train shook horribly between Little and Great Ponton, and again at Yaxley. Of course there's always some shake and wobble, but at Little Ponton it was unnatural. Lots of rattling from the buffet.

Makes me wonder about track maintenance.

Has anyone else experienced this?

Everywhere, there are (for want of a more technical term) "wobbly" spots everywhere.

If you travel frequently enough I'd be surprised if you hadn't noticed them in places, there are some very rough spots which a lot of the newer stock doesn't manage to smooth out very well.

The Azumas are not particularly renowned for having cushioning suspension in relation to taking track irregularities.

My view is that given the driver is situated right over the leading bogie if it was of concern let alone dangerous, they would report it surely?

civ-eng-jim · 5 Sep 2021

backontrack said:
I'm on the southbound Highland Chieftain at the moment, and the train shook horribly between Little and Great Ponton, and again at Yaxley. Of course there's always some shake and wobble, but at Little Ponton it was unnatural. Lots of rattling from the buffet.

Makes me wonder about track maintenance.

Has anyone else experienced this?

If it was resulting in lots of shaking and rattling (rather than sudden jerks or excessive carriage sway) then it could be down to rail corrugation rather than poor track alignment geometry.

Peter Mugridge · 6 Sep 2021

backontrack said:
I'm on the southbound Highland Chieftain at the moment, and the train shook horribly between Little and Great Ponton, and again at Yaxley. Of course there's always some shake and wobble, but at Little Ponton it was unnatural. Lots of rattling from the buffet.

Makes me wonder about track maintenance.

Has anyone else experienced this?

Yes, some months ago and having looked up Great Ponton on Google Maps, I would say the same area and lasting about 20 - 30 seconds - my thought at the time was that it was an instance of cyclic top and that the crews would report it, so I'm somewhat surprised that it hasn't been sorted out by now.

Starmill · 6 Sep 2021

I find it much more noticeable on class 80x sets than IC225 / Voyager / Class 180 ones personally.

civ-eng-jim · 6 Sep 2021

Peter Mugridge said:
Yes, some months ago and having looked up Great Ponton on Google Maps, I would say the same area and lasting about 20 - 30 seconds - my thought at the time was that it was an instance of cyclic top and that the crews would report it, so I'm somewhat surprised that it hasn't been sorted out by now.

^^^^ Yes, that - not corrugation.

Presumably cyclic top might not be apparent at certain speeds that don't cause the train to resonate so wouldn't always get flagged by the crew.

Bigfoot · 6 Sep 2021

It's not very often that you feel cyclic top as a passenger driver that hasn't already been speed boarded. Plus that speed will usually be line speed or something very close to it with a lower speed for freight. So it's more a case of it's already known about but its safe for passenger stock to maintain normal or close to normal line speed over the affected section.

GC class B1 · 6 Sep 2021

I have travelled on class 800 on the East Coast and they suffer bogie hunting frequently. Bogie hunting can cause the vehicle to shake and rattle. This is more likely than corrugated track. There have been other threads on this.

thejuggler · 6 Sep 2021

I was on an 800 last Friday. Southbound I was in coach F of a 2 x 5 set, last seats before the rear cab end. There was significant noise from the bogies on some high speed stretches and this caused shake.

I've had a 'customer experience' email from LNER and mentioned how poor the ride was.

apinnard · 6 Sep 2021

Slightly off topic: The GEML between Shenfield and Chelmsford used to be notoriously bad for “wet spots” caused by the trackbed being on essex clay.

Bald Rick · 6 Sep 2021

apinnard said:
Slightly off topic: The GEML between Shenfield and Chelmsford used to be notoriously bad for “wet spots” caused by the trackbed being on essex clay.

Not just Shenfield to Chelmsford!

philjo · 6 Sep 2021

Had a few rough rides in 387s on the Northbound fast Cambridge/Kings Lynn services recently. The Normal bad area is around Welham Green. Last week the bogies were constantly hunting on the track between Oakleigh Park through to beyond Hatfield.

apinnard · 6 Sep 2021

Bald Rick said:
Not just Shenfield to Chelmsford!

Absolutely. These are the bits I notice the most and usually ensure my coffee is securely held for. The whole lot is a pita I bet.

Bald Rick · 6 Sep 2021

apinnard said:
Absolutely. These are the bits I notice the most and usually ensure my coffee is securely held for. The whole lot is a pita I bet.

Ipswich to (roughly) Romford. Poor geology, plus an endless procession of heavy freight and frequent high speed passenger services. This is why any proposals for increased line speeds are generally chuckled at by the track engineers.

D6130 · 6 Sep 2021

Travelling back from Scotland to Yorkshire on 4th August, on the 13 30 Edinburgh-Kings Cross (unit no. 801 220 - coach 'J'), the ride was acceptably smooth until just after the driver shut-off power between Tollerton and Beningborough for the York stop. Then, all of a sudden, all hell let loose with 5-6 minutes of incredibly high-intensity and quite frightening lateral hunting, which brought my wife and - I suspect - several other passengers out into a cold sweat. I haven't experienced anything like it since riding on a Portsmouth-Wigan football special formed of BR1 bogied Mark 1 stock and hauled by a class 82 electric loco on the WCML in the late 1970s.

Peter Mugridge · 7 Sep 2021

GC class B1 said:
I have travelled on class 800 on the East Coast and they suffer bogie hunting frequently. Bogie hunting can cause the vehicle to shake and rattle. This is more likely than corrugated track. There have been other threads on this.

The one I mentioned was a rapid up and down movement with no sideways feel at all.

gimmea50anyday · 7 Sep 2021

GC class B1 said:
I have travelled on class 800 on the East Coast and they suffer bogie hunting frequently. Bogie hunting can cause the vehicle to shake and rattle. This is more likely than corrugated track. There have been other threads on this.

185s do it, particularly on the stretch between Ferryhill and Croxdale and at Thornhill junction, but 802s bogie hunting is really bad and feels awful in the rear cab.

voyagerdude220 · 7 Sep 2021

hexagon789 said:
My view is that given the driver is situated right over the leading bogie if it was of concern let alone dangerous, they would report it surely?

I remember around 10 years ago being in the very front carriage of a double Super Voyager northbound approaching Lockerbie at line speed (125 mph EPS) and suddenly hearing several loud bangs from the outside of the train, somewhere between the bottom of the window and the floor.

I was tempted to pull the pass com, as there wasn't a Train Manager in my half of the train to report it to. (I should have maybe mentioned it to the shop staff)

Upon arriving at Glasgow I mentioned it to the Driver and the Train Manager was with them at the time- The Driver said he was completely unaware of anything amiss, but the Train Manager said she had indeed heard something in the rear set.

backontrack · 11 Sep 2021

I'm on the 09:00 LNER to Edinburgh. It's absolutely crawled since Holme Fen through Yaxley. Wondering if it's due to a track-related speed restriction.

DanNCL · 11 Sep 2021

The 80xs ride appallingly on pretty much all of the ECML. The section round Yaxley I've found is one of the worse sections on a Mark 4, along with the area around New Barnet. Further north the ride from Ferryhill down to Croxdale then again past Aycliffe Village is also poor on just about everything.

A temporary speed restriction had been imposed a while back just North of Morpeth because of track condition, but I don't know if that's still present or not.

I am glad I've never taken an 80x round the Durham Coast, the ride quality on everything else on the line between Newcastle and Sunderland, especially between Pelaw Metro Junction and East Boldon, is terrible.

backontrack said:
I'm on the 09:00 LNER to Edinburgh. It's absolutely crawled since Holme Fen through Yaxley. Wondering if it's due to a track-related speed restriction.

Quite common on Northbound services because of pathing constraints through Peterborough. The same fairly often happens on the approach to Doncaster.

Ianno87 · 11 Sep 2021

backontrack said:
I'm on the 09:00 LNER to Edinburgh. It's absolutely crawled since Holme Fen through Yaxley. Wondering if it's due to a track-related speed restriction.

No, you were behind a VSTP-d Felixstowe-Leeds freight: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:59577/2021-09-11/detailed

800001 · 11 Sep 2021

DanNCL said:
The 80xs ride appallingly on pretty much all of the ECML. The section round Yaxley I've found is one of the worse sections on a Mark 4, along with the area around New Barnet. Further north the ride from Ferryhill down to Croxdale then again past Aycliffe Village is also poor on just about everything.

A temporary speed restriction had been imposed a while back just North of Morpeth because of track condition, but I don't know if that's still present or not.

I am glad I've never taken an 80x round the Durham Coast, the ride quality on everything else on the line between Newcastle and Sunderland, especially between Pelaw Metro Junction and East Boldon, is terrible.

Quite common on Northbound services because of pathing constraints through Peterborough. The same fairly often happens on the approach to Doncaster.

Morpeth is still an ongoing restriction and will be for several months, albeit, speed is increasing quite often.
The ground is still moving at Morpeth and NWR have a team looking after that site ready to pack ballast etc to keep track raised. Think it is a rather lengthy job, involving Northumberland Council and NWR.

As for multiple other areas between Newcastle and York, there is a lot of pressure being out on NWR by lner and other TOCs about the quality of track, my commute to York each day on all Tocs have certainly noticed the poor quality of rise, and it seems to be getting worse.

Looks like work soon between Tollerton and Skelton Bridge as equipment being laid at side of track.

backontrack · 11 Sep 2021

Ianno87 said:
No, you were behind a VSTP-d Felixstowe-Leeds freight: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:59577/2021-09-11/detailed

Ah! Cheers

800001 said:
Morpeth is still an ongoing restriction and will be for several months, albeit, speed is increasing quite often.
The ground is still moving at Morpeth and NWR have a team looking after that site ready to pack ballast etc to keep track raised. Think it is a rather lengthy job, involving Northumberland Council and NWR.

Can confirm we went through Morpeth very slowly.

Wobbly rails on the ECML

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