• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Lumo - new Open Access operator on the East Coast Main Line

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,540
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Hard to imagine these days.

Most notably because the railway killed it (though if it did exist now you'd have had to go to a TVM and buy a ticket to get through security). The reason to fly from Manchester to London now is basically just to make connections onto other flights, or if you happen to both live near Ringway and be going to somewhere near Heathrow.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

malc-c

Member
Joined
1 Dec 2017
Messages
990
Stevenage to Luton Airport is a frustrating one- the bus, at best, takes over 50 minutes. But when you're waiting for a train the planes are overhead, on final approach, with wheels down. Not that an open access operator can fix that- indeed, it's mainly a function of the layout of the road network
They should never have ripped up the Hatfield to Dunstable branch line all those years ago... it used to run more or less where Luton Parkway now sits !
 
Joined
21 Aug 2021
Messages
214
Location
Aylesbury
Does anybody know if Lumo will sell any cheaper "Lumo Only" ordinary tickets (tickets that are valid on any Lumo train and are not advance tickets)? From looking on the BR Fares website i can only seem to find advance tickets so i am guessing you will have to buy an "Any Permitted" ticket (unless they have not uploaded their "Lumo Only" ordinary fares yet)?

Also why do they have such an odd timetable? Is there any logic to this timetable? For example Stevenage is served Southbound only with no Northbound trains calling there at all. Then they have one journey a week in one direction only that skips calling at Morpeth with everything else calling there.

On a positive note i see they have now uploaded a new clearer more professional looking train timetable to their website. The old one looked like it was just created in Microsoft Excel and then they took a screenshot and copied and pasted it to their website.

Interestingly it says that the Stevenage calls on the Southbound trains will be Set Down Only so no local journeys from Stevenage to London Kings Cross will be allowed. If i remember correctly i think that First Hull Trains do the same thing.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,540
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Does anybody know if Lumo will sell any cheaper "Lumo Only" ordinary tickets (tickets that are valid on any Lumo train and are not advance tickets)? From looking on the BR Fares website i can only seem to find advance tickets so i am guessing you will have to buy an "Any Permitted" ticket (unless they have not uploaded their "Lumo Only" ordinary fares yet)?

Yes, but only Anytimes. There are no dedicated Off Peaks.
 

XAM2175

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2016
Messages
3,469
Location
Glasgow
Also why do they have such an odd timetable? Is there any logic to this timetable? For example Stevenage is served Southbound only with no Northbound trains calling there at all. Then they have one journey a week in one direction only that skips calling at Morpeth with everything else calling there.
...
Interestingly it says that the Stevenage calls on the Southbound trains will be Set Down Only so no local journeys from Stevenage to London Kings Cross will be allowed. If i remember correctly i think that First Hull Trains do the same thing.

The odd timetables are a function of them receiving "leftover" paths - they've essentially been squeezed into the existing timetable for the line. This should be smoothed out in the next recast.

The odd absence of certain stops and the boarding restrictions are a result of the regulation that requires open-access operators be not primarily abstractive of customers and revenue from franchised operators.
 

Wolfie

Established Member
Joined
17 Aug 2010
Messages
6,050
I think drivers will be called ‘customer drivers’ - what does that mean exactly?
If it said passenger driver l would say that l t shows that they don't drive freight.... Given that the railway seems to prefer customer to passenger (forgetting that freight shippers are also customers) currently the intent might be argued to be the same.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,224
Location
Bolton
The timetable isn't actually that odd. Nearly everyone who travels with them is going to be going to and from London King's Cross, regardless of how much they liked talking about airports. Nearly all of those people will be using Edinburgh or Newcastle. Carrying a few Newcastle - Morpeth / Edinburgh passengers to reoccupy the same seat as a London - Newcastle one is an important secondary factor.
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
11,945
Location
UK
Does anybody know if Lumo will sell any cheaper "Lumo Only" ordinary tickets (tickets that are valid on any Lumo train and are not advance tickets)?
Yes, you need to click on the "view more" option:
1631190700107.png

Lumo-only walkup fares are then shown, although it's far from clear that these tickets are restricted to Lumo services:

1631190775202.png

And the term "ECTL ONLY" is not going to mean anything to 99% of passengers:

1631190834814.png

Trainline are now selling the LumoFixed tickets; however their white label site (used by XC, Northern, Scotrail etc.) is still only showing the walkup fares. TrainSplit are only showing Lumo's walkup fares and MixingDeck based sites (used by GWR, SWR & TPE) aren't showing Lumo's flexible or Advance fares at all.

From looking on the BR Fares website i can only seem to find advance tickets so i am guessing you will have to buy an "Any Permitted" ticket (unless they have not uploaded their "Lumo Only" ordinary fares yet)?
The fares have been uploaded. BR Fares only shows fares that are available for travel today. LumoFixed tickets are shown on BR Fares because they are, theoretically, available for travel today - there are just no publicly advertised services, hence you can't buy them. Whereas the flexible fares are only available for purchase from 25 October, so will only appear on BR Fares on that date.

Also why do they have such an odd timetable? Is there any logic to this timetable? For example Stevenage is served Southbound only with no Northbound trains calling there at all. Then they have one journey a week in one direction only that skips calling at Morpeth with everything else calling there.
Lumo have had to fit within the existing ECML timetable, which wasn't designed to accommodate an additional fast service. When the ECML recast eventually happens, Lumo should get some better paths, although they will inevitably still have some pathing ("slack"). There are also a number of limitations on the calls they are allowed to make due to their access rights.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
Since I started talking about this, I'm now getting adverts for a company called LuNo: https://www.luno.com/en/gb - it's a cryptocurrency service.

Maybe Lumo should partner up and start taking Bitcoin onboard!
 

quantinghome

Established Member
Joined
1 Jun 2013
Messages
2,262
Lumo sounds like a tropical disease or something you'd use to treat your lawn. Terrible name.
 

BayPaul

Established Member
Joined
11 Jul 2019
Messages
1,219
I for one think that this is looking really good. Ok, the website is rubbish at the moment, but I'm sure it'll improve, but I think they have a lot of the branding and product just right to appeal to their market. I will certainly be looking out for them for my next trip to Edinburgh. Points I like
  • The name - thank god it's not yet another compass point name that the line barely goes to, I was really worried it would be East Coast Trains. Lumo sounds reasonably good, is distinctive, and has a clean, fresh feel that I rather like
  • Also good that they aren't mentioning First in the branding, which is a bit confusing, and associated with past rail failures.
  • The livery - I actually quite like the simplicity, again a clean, fresh look that is quite different to other operators
  • The job titles - For me guard or conductor is mainly associated with strikes. Train Manager / Train Captain sounds like Senior Purser on BA - a bit pompous. Why not ambassador! It also gives a subtle indication that this is a move away from the old guard rail employees, again which I would tend to associate with poor customer service and trains cancelled due to strikes, so a subtly positive thing.
  • Only accepting cards onboard - Great, less risk for the staff, less weight for them to carry around, and great to really annoy the people who fuss about the ability to pay with legal tender on here!
  • The seating plan - loads of airline seats, which I much prefer, and which probably positions the service towards couples rather than families
I know I'm in a minority, but I think that this looks rather promising
 

hexagon789

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
15,715
Location
Glasgow
The amount of concern over something as trivial as a simple brand name is bordering on the absurd in this thread :rolleyes:

They haven't even turned a wheel in anger, given people the opportunity to see what they are actually like and already there are scores of negative comments based purely on the use of a little four letter word that may well be not related to railways or trains but does that really matter?

Can we not let them actually operate some services before we mercilessly ridicule them for their efforts...

I know I'm in a minority, but I think that this looks rather promising
I think it has the potential to be if people can just get over the damn' name thing!
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
I think it has the potential to be if people can just get over the damn' name thing!


But but but but but it's not called the "London, Home Counties, Tyneside and Scotland Express Railway Company Limited plc corporation", so it's not "traditional" enough!
 

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
5,038
But but but but but it's not called the "London, Home Counties, Tyneside and Scotland Express Railway Company Limited plc corporation", so it's not "traditional" enough!
They should call it GWR. It's a traditional railway brand with a strong pedigree
 

Glenn1969

Established Member
Joined
22 Jan 2019
Messages
1,983
Location
Halifax, Yorks
They should call it GWR. It's a traditional railway brand with a strong pedigree
Maybe they should have called it something that differentiates it from Lumo the Vape company, Lumo the computer Game, the ex Lumo Energy and lumo.tax?
 

BayPaul

Established Member
Joined
11 Jul 2019
Messages
1,219
They should call it GWR. It's a traditional railway brand with a strong pedigree
I assume you aren't being serious. That doesn't work because a: They don't want a traditional railway brand, b:They are not heading west and c: It is used by a different operator. Other than that...
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
Maybe they should have called it something that differentiates it from Lumo the Vape company, Lumo the computer Game, the ex Lumo Energy and lumo.tax?

Put Lumo into Google and the train company is by far the most prominent result.
 

hexagon789

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
15,715
Location
Glasgow
But but but but but it's not called the "London, Home Counties, Tyneside and Scotland Express Railway Company Limited plc corporation", so it's not "traditional" enough!
;)

As if tradition matters a darn to them...

(And I presume you were being facetious)
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
17,624
Location
Another planet...
It is quite amusing to read the reactions to "Lumo" and their creatively-worded job titles...

One the one hand I'm very sceptical of the value of these fancy labels and brands, and some of the language used in the launch sounded like it had been generated specifically to boost a word-count! On the other hand, if a new operator (even if owned by a longstanding existing group) wants to try a different approach they're welcome to do so. If it works, great... if not, so be it.

Brands trying to "re-invent the wheel" isn't a new thing though... back in the 1980s Ben Elton had a comedy routine where he ranted about the daft brands that the early deregulated bus industry tried out (Hoppa Shoppa etc).
 

hexagon789

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
15,715
Location
Glasgow
It is quite amusing to read the reactions to "Lumo" and their creatively-worded job titles...

One the one hand I'm very sceptical of the value of these fancy labels and brands, and some of the language used in the launch sounded like it had been generated specifically to boost a word-count! On the other hand, if a new operator (even if owned by a longstanding existing group) wants to try a different approach they're welcome to do so. If it works, great... if not, so be it.

Brands trying to "re-invent the wheel" isn't a new thing though... back in the 1980s Ben Elton had a comedy routine where he ranted about the daft brands that the early deregulated bus industry tried out (Hoppa Shoppa etc).
My view is that what they call themselves or their various job titles doesn't matter a damn', no one will care. What concerns people is reliability, fares, comfort, journey time, customer service etc - what they call themselves does not automatically improve or diminish any of those things, its a non-issue on those points.

The passengers won't care if they call themselves Bog Roll Railways for all the if they can get a reasonably priced fare that on a train takes them in relative comfort and speed where they want to go.
 

43074

Established Member
Joined
10 Oct 2012
Messages
2,003
I think it has the potential to be if people can just get over the damn' name thing!
Yes I'd second that. Their paths run at reasonably attractive times and on the whole with journey times at least close to LNER's hourly fast. The fares are reasonable and it's nice to see an operator trying to be different. Sure the name sounds a bit cheap but they've never pretended to be anything else, it's a low cost operation and I hope it succeeds.
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
Yes I'd second that. Their paths run at reasonably attractive times and on the whole with journey times at least close to LNER's hourly fast. The fares are reasonable and it's nice to see an operator trying to be different. Sure the name sounds a bit cheap but they've never pretended to be anything else, it's a low cost operation and I hope it succeeds.

And, as others have pointed out, the name is expandable. Already seen people Tweeting stuff like "Lumo need to come to XXXX Town/City".

;)

As if tradition matters a darn to them...

(And I presume you were being facetious)

You assume correctly.
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
17,624
Location
Another planet...
My view is that what they call themselves or their various job titles doesn't matter a damn', no one will care. What concerns people is reliability, fares, comfort, journey time, customer service etc - what they call themselves does not automatically improve or diminish any of those things, its a non-issue on those points.

The passengers won't care if they call themselves Bog Roll Railways for all the if they can get a reasonably priced fare that on a train takes them in relative comfort and speed where they want to go.
Personally the "weasel words" in the launch press release annoy me more than the name. The reported use of other operators' information on their own website also raises a few red flags, but the average potential customer won't know or care about those things.

Living where I do, I'm unlikely to have the opportunity to try out their offering... but if they're a success then all power to them, as much as their management-speak leaves me cold.

I was similarly sceptical about Transdev's relaunch of Yorkshire Tiger routes, but so far they've not been "all mouth, no trousers" as I expected.
 

hexagon789

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
15,715
Location
Glasgow
Yes I'd second that. Their paths run at reasonably attractive times and on the whole with journey times at least close to LNER's hourly fast. The fares are reasonable and it's nice to see an operator trying to be different. Sure the name sounds a bit cheap but they've never pretended to be anything else, it's a low cost operation and I hope it succeeds.
Well that's kind of it - it's meant to be cheap! (Low-cost maybe sounds better but in this sense its the same).


And, as others have pointed out, the name is expandable. Already seen people Tweeting stuff like "Lumo need to come to XXXX Town/City".
And why not, the railways need some form of change what with the shift to GBR, why shouldn't a low-cost operator offer say 5 return workings on some key routes where demand exists to directly compete with GBR on cost

Personally the "weasel words" in the launch press release annoy me more than the name. The reported use of other operators' information on their own website also raises a few red flags, but the average potential customer won't know or care about those things.

Living where I do, I'm unlikely to have the opportunity to try out their offering... but if they're a success then all power to them, as much as their management-speak leaves me cold.

I was similarly sceptical about Transdev's relaunch of Yorkshire Tiger routes, but so far they've not been "all mouth, no trousers" as I expected.
I don't really care about that anymore than I care about the use of "Lumo" as a brand name. They may well prove to be utter rubbish, but I feel they should have the opportunity to actually run some trains first for a reasonable period before we actually pass judgement as to whether their operations are a success, are a worthwhile contribution, are any actual good to travellers and are sustainable.

All these things cannot be judged until at least a few months after their full timetable is in operation if not more like a year or so.
 

ScotTrains

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2014
Messages
376
Location
Scotland
It will be interesting to see how LNER respond to this new competitor.
Although Lumo seems like a third class option, ie cheap, no frills, loads of seats with very few tables in each coach, I suspect it could be very popular if the price is right.
LNER will be wishing they weren't stuck with Azuma's with those awful seats.
 
Joined
21 Aug 2021
Messages
214
Location
Aylesbury
Does anyone know how customer service works for this new Lumo operation? Like if you email them or phone them or Tweet them where does it go through to? Is it an outsourced agency? Is it a shared service that also deals with other First Group train companies? Is it a dedicated customer service centre for Lumo only? Are they based in the UK or overseas?

Also i was browsing through their website a bit more and i just noticed if you look on their website page for their destinations it shows the wrong station codes:


Where it says London it says LDN which is Llandanwg (the correct code is KGX). Where it says Edinburgh it says EDI which is a non existent code (the correct code is EDB). Lets hope they change this soon. Otherwise i can see people accidentally buying tickets to the wrong destination.
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
Where it says London it says LDN which is Llandanwg (the correct code is KGX). Where it says Edinburgh it says EDI which is a non existent code (the correct code is EDB). Lets hope they change this soon. Otherwise i can see people accidentally buying tickets to the wrong destination.

By that logic, there must be swathes of passengers tuning up at Barnes and confused by the lack Brummie accents in the vicinity.

I suggest a theoretical only problem.
 

New2rail1

Member
Joined
6 Aug 2021
Messages
29
Location
Newcastle
Also i was browsing through their website a bit more and i just noticed if you look on their website page for their destinations it shows the wrong station codes:


Where it says London it says LDN which is Llandanwg (the correct code is KGX). Where it says Edinburgh it says EDI which is a non existent code (the correct code is EDB). Lets hope they change this soon. Otherwise i can see people accidentally buying tickets to the wrong destination.
I think, maybe they're going for Airport codes as they're trying to rival airlines. But LDN isn't a london airport code.

Tbh, the majority of people who aren't enthusiasts won't have a clue what KGX is.
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
I think, maybe they're going for Airport codes as they're trying to rival airlines. But LDN isn't a london airport code.

Tbh, the majority of people who aren't enthusiasts won't have a clue what KGX is.

Yep. Loads of probably think LKX or LKC is the "obvious" abbreviation.
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,533
And why not, the railways need some form of change what with the shift to GBR, why shouldn't a low-cost operator offer say 5 return workings on some key routes where demand exists to directly compete with GBR on cost
Ultimately, the taxpayer ends up paying for the new operator extracting revenue from the GBR operator.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top