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MML Electrification: progress updates

Killingworth

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Too many red wall seats at stake for it not to happen!

It will be kept quiet for as long as possible, dripping out in stages to give good news stories when contracts are as good as let. Nothing publicly cancelled and delays hidden. Saves all the flak from the likes of us if there are any hitches.

Meanwhile HS2 East will be sinking below the folder for Piccadilly Platforms 15/16. Both could be reactivated if a rabbit was needed - but likely to remain a long way from being built.
 
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Roger B

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It will be kept quiet for as long as possible, dripping out in stages to give good news stories when contracts are as good as let. Nothing publicly cancelled and delays hidden. Saves all the flak from the likes of us if there are any hitches.

Meanwhile HS2 East will be sinking below the folder for Piccadilly Platforms 15/16. Both could be reactivated if a rabbit was needed - but likely to remain a long way from being built.
And there's me thinking that I am just a tad cynical. However, I fear Killingworth's analysis may be absolutely spot on, given the integrity demonstrated by out elected representatives to date!
 

johnnychips

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@Killingworth , what is the ‘Megatron’ under Sheffield station that could cause electrification difficulties?

Post #4527.

I know the Dutch for microwave is ‘magnetron’, so is it something electric or power-related?
 

Killingworth

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@Killingworth , what is the ‘Megatron’ under Sheffield station that could cause electrification difficulties?

Post #4527.

I know the Dutch for microwave is ‘magnetron’, so is it something electric or power-related?
They say Sheffield was built on 7 hills but Sheffield Midland Station was built on an area of lower ground where the River Sheaf met the Porter Brook and flowed into the River Don. The OS 1:1056 map of 1853 shows Ponds and Ponds Dams. This was all reclaimed, part now the Pond Street bus station and the Ponds Forge International Sports Centre.

About this time the railways wanted to get into Sheffield from the south and planned their route down the Sheaf Valley, the meandering Sheaf crisscrossed by the line all the way. When it got to the Ponds there was too much water so they built sturdy brick arches across the valley to support the railway and the station.

The Megatron is the giant storm drain that flows beneath the station. A description is here; https://www.sheffieldguide.blog/202...en-rivers-and-the-megatron-beneath-sheffield/

More at; https://www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/forums/topic/16584-the-history-of-sheffield-megatron/

And another video;
 
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johnnychips

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@Killingworth, I live 300 yards away from the station and I had no idea of all this stuff. Thanks.

On topic, as said, any modifications to Sheffield station itself for electrification or HS2 East is going to be challenging enough, then you still have the difficulties of only two tracks leaving the north of the station; and to the south it seems that three-tracking is the maximum possible without demolishing bits of supermarkets.
 

Killingworth

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@Killingworth, I live 300 yards away from the station and I had no idea of all this stuff. Thanks.

On topic, as said, any modifications to Sheffield station itself for electrification or HS2 East is going to be challenging enough, then you still have the difficulties of only two tracks leaving the north of the station; and to the south it seems that three-tracking is the maximum possible without demolishing bits of supermarkets.

Quite! The Sheaf Valley is challenging enough, but adding extra tracks going north east into the Don Valley is probably not going to happen.

When you see all the brick and stone work beneath Sheffield station you can understand why Bradway Tunnel was completed over a year before the station. A vast hidden liability for Network Rail to maintain and consider before they design any tracks and buildings on top.
 

edwin_m

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The river under Sheffield station was featured on one of the "Architecture the Railways Built" programmes with Tim Dunn, which may still be available on UKTV Play. It has flooded on several occasions - someone on one of the platforms a log is exhibited that was left on the track, illustrating the size of the flood.
 

Senex

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Quite! The Sheaf Valley is challenging enough, but adding extra tracks going north east into the Don Valley is probably not going to happen.

When you see all the brick and stone work beneath Sheffield station you can understand why Bradway Tunnel was completed over a year before the station. A vast hidden liability for Network Rail to maintain and consider before they design any tracks and buildings on top.
The Midland was intending to carry the quadrupling north from the station, with the new work at first on the west side. However, World War One came along, then Grouping, and this was never done. Whereas perhaps it's a good thing that the Bradford scheme was never completed, it's a shame Sheffield didn't get done in time. The way the approach from the south was handled at Sheffield was an excellent example of the way in which planning for good operation had developed towards the end of the C19 and start of the C20—well up to the standards of what was being done in other countries.
 

WestRiding

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The river under Sheffield station was featured on one of the "Architecture the Railways Built" programmes with Tim Dunn, which may still be available on UKTV Play. It has flooded on several occasions - someone on one of the platforms a log is exhibited that was left on the track, illustrating the size of the flood.
Platform 5 near the Station Manager Office
 

snowball

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The October Modern Railways has an item on MML electrification on pp. 50-51. It says track lowering should begin in December at two bridges between Kettering and Market Harborough.

The completion date for wiring to MH is Dec 2023.

As for north of MH to Nottingham and Sheffield, Network Rail's project sponsor is quoted as saying "We're working with the DfT to look at the opportunity and to understand more about the route. We need to work it up so we've got a proposal we can present to the Department for a decision."

That makes it sound as though a decision could be a depressingly long way off.

Upgrading the OLE south of Bedforf for 125mph electric running is being done in stages with no completion date mentioned.
 
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AM9

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... Upgrading the OLE south of Bedforf for 125mph electric running is being done in stages with no completion date mentioned.
The benefit to EMR services of that is negligible south of Luton and not great enough to make it a priority between Luton and Bedford.
 

Bald Rick

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The benefit to EMR services of that is negligible south of Luton and not great enough to make it a priority between Luton and Bedford.

About 1 minute south of Luton, and 2 minutes Luton - Bedford.

In other news I gather that work is starting at Napsbury and East Hyde in the next month or so.
 

AM9

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About 1 minute south of Luton, and 2 minutes Luton - Bedford.

In other news I gather that work is starting at Napsbury and East Hyde in the next month or so.
Presumably that is about the limit of savings south of Luton given the need maintain headways between EM & TL services?
 

Bald Rick

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Presumably that is about the limit of savings south of Luton given the need maintain headways between EM & TL services?

It’s all that the infrastructure can deliver. Elstree tunnel, the curves around St Albans, and the curves at Luton limit what is possible. There’s only 6 miles of 125mph south of Luton (Elstree-Napsbury) and the trains only manage that for about 4 of those miles.
 

AM9

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It’s all that the infrastructure can deliver. Elstree tunnel, the curves around St Albans, and the curves at Luton limit what is possible. There’s only 6 miles of 125mph south of Luton (Elstree-Napsbury) and the trains only manage that for about 4 of those miles.
It's a shame that there isn't one or two slow pinch points that could be improved enough to gain more time savings than making trains waste energy by accelerating for quite short sprints.
 

Bald Rick

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Is the problem with Elstree tunnel curvature, the size of the tunnels, or both?

I don’t know, but I suspect aerodynamics.

It's a shame that there isn't one or two slow pinch points that could be improved enough to gain more time savings than making trains waste energy by accelerating for quite short sprints.

St Albans was lifted 5 or 10mph (I forget which) a few years ago.
 
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43066

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In other news I gather that work is starting at Napsbury and East Hyde in the next month or so.

Good news on this, and perhaps surprising(?) given that it sounded like the project was firmly “on ice”, with no clear timescales.

Any word on when the Sundon to Bedford upgrade will commence? I suspect this will make the greatest difference to EMR in practice, since most of the GTRs are out of the way once north of Luton.
 

Bald Rick

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Any word on when the Sundon to Bedford upgrade will commence? I suspect this will make the greatest difference to EMR in practice, since most of the GTRs are out of the way once north of Luton.

No idea, and whilst it is correct that the greatest benefit is north of Luton, this is nothing to do with Thameslink services being a rarity on the fasts. It’s because there’s only 6 miles of 125mph south of Luton, but about 15 miles of it between Luton and Bedford.
 

Class 170101

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It’s all that the infrastructure can deliver. Elstree tunnel, the curves around St Albans, and the curves at Luton limit what is possible. There’s only 6 miles of 125mph south of Luton (Elstree-Napsbury) and the trains only manage that for about 4 of those miles.

How much of the line above 100 needs to be re-wired not just the 6 miles at 125mph but how about at 105, 110mph etc?
 

59CosG95

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That I don’t know.
It'll most likely be adjustments, and not necessarily a complete rewire as such. I'll have a look at the SA for a ballpark figure when I'm near a laptop again.

EDIT: The ballpark figure I have (in single-track miles and chains) is 81m 51ch, which roughly equates to 131.383km worth of adjustments, excluding any crossover tracks.
 
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Bald Rick

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It'll most likely be adjustments, and not necessarily a complete rewire as such. I'll have a look at the SA for a ballpark figure when I'm near a laptop again.

Ah, now I have reread the post properly... I don’t think there will be much of any re-wiring, it will be changes to support arrangements and possibly rentensioning.
 

hwl

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It'll most likely be adjustments, and not necessarily a complete rewire as such. I'll have a look at the SA for a ballpark figure when I'm near a laptop again.
There were some estimate quite few pages back when the (rather small) maximum time saving estimates were discussed.
 

MetalMicky

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The October Modern Railways has an item on MML electrification on pp. 50-51. It says track lowering should begin in December at two bridges between Kettering and Market Harborough.

The completion date for wiring to MH is Dec 2023.

As for north of MH to Nottingham and Sheffield, Network Rail's project sponsor is quoted as saying "We're working with the DfT to look at the opportunity and to understand more about the route. We need to work it up so we've got a proposal we can present to the Department for a decision."

That makes it sound as though a decision could be a depressingly long way off.

Upgrading the OLE south of Bedforf for 125mph electric running is being done in stages with no completion date mentioned.
Call me a cynic, but I’ve just got a sneaking suspicion that just before the start of COP26, Grant Shapps will rise to his feet in the House of Commons and say ‘Today I can announce to the House that this Government will commit to funding the electrification of the Midland main line through the heart of our vital East Midlands region to Nottingham, Derby and onwards to the city of Sheffield, thereby reducing the emissions and carbon footprint along this vital railway artery, as part of our levelling up agenda.’ Or something like that anyway! Overlooking that it has been cancelled three times already.
 

Flying Phil

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Slow but steady progress is being made at the Braybrooke supply site. Concrete foundation work is visible.
IMG20211003161039s Braybrooke Oct 2021.jpg
 

cle

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Seeing what seems to be on the cards for the Eastern leg, what would the fastest journey time be for a London> Leicester> Derby> Chesterfield> Sheffield fast service, if all wired and all 125mph electric fixes were made? How about Nottingham? And the Grantham alt route NR/LNER proposed.

Those may well be the end points for the region, unless there is some type of East Midlands Parkway arm from HS2.
 

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