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Meridian Water / Ponders End Project

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Mollman

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Come across the ITT today:
https://procontract.due-north.com/Advert?advertId=1408fbe3-0f9e-eb11-810c-005056b64545
Meridian Water is a major £6bn, 25-year London regeneration programme led by Enfield Council, bringing approximately 10,000 homes and thousands of jobs to Enfield, north London. The Council is seeking to appoint a contractor for delivery of the rail infrastructure works to support the development at Meridian Water. The works include: GRIP 5 – 7, design. delivery and hand back of assets to Network Rail for works including approximately 1200 m of track loop at Ponders End Station (WAML), overhead line equipment (OLE); Turnouts and Signalling modifications; Retaining structures to Brimsdown ditch and Bridge modifications. For further information, please refer to 'Memorandum of Information' in the procurement
documents.
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Railwaysceptic

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£6 billion is a lot of money and we don't yet know what commuter passenger levels will be when the Covid 19 dust has settled. The West Anglia Main Line is very busy but additional track has already been laid from the new station at Meridian Water to beyond Coppermill Junction. It's premature to press on with further expansion of capacity.
 
Mikey C

Mikey C

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Railwaysceptic said:
£6 billion is a lot of money and we don't yet know what commuter passenger levels will be when the Covid 19 dust has settled. The West Anglia Main Line is very busy but additional track has already been laid from the new station at Meridian Water to beyond Coppermill Junction. It's premature to press on with further expansion of capacity.
Click to expand...
£6bn is the overall cost of the investment in the area over 25 years, not the railway share of it
 
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Railwaysceptic

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Mikey C said:
£6bn is the overall cost of the investment in the area over 25 years, not the railway share of it
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You're quite right. I didn't read it carefully enough. Apologies all round although my main point is still valid.
 
WesternBiker

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So will the loop at Ponders End be just that - or is the intention, now or later, to join it up with the three-tracked section which currently stops at Meridian Water?
 
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mr_jrt

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Don't know if this sheds any more light on things...
Enfield Council, in consultation with Network Rail have concluded that by installing a
dynamic passing loop on a section of the West Anglia Mainline at Ponders End, it will be
possible in future to permit up to four or even six trains an hour to and from the new
station at Meridian Water to Stratford via Tottenham Hale (where passengers can transfer
for services to London Liverpool Street or interchange with the sub-surface London
Underground station for destinations via the Victoria Line.) Traditionally, passing loops
have been used as a means by which slower freight or passenger trains can in effect, ‘pull
over’ temporarily into a designated ‘siding’ and pause to allow faster (express) or
prioritised services to proceed at the line speed without having to slow down and lose
time. This is achieved by laying a relatively short stretch of rail, but long enough to
accommodate the longest of freight trains, next to an existing set of through tracks, with
signals and points controlling egress and access to the mainline.

Whereas, dynamic passing loops follow the same principle, but typically involves laying a
far longer length of track alongside a mainline railway, which allows speed-restricted
heavy freight or slower passenger trains diverted by the signaller into the loop, to continue
moving throughout the manoeuvre at a reduced speed in the same direction towards the
‘exit’, until the right of way is granted and indicated by the appropriate colour aspect
signal. This solution has the advantage of saving some precious time for diverted train
services, as well as the express services that have overall priority
Click to expand...
 
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alf

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I don’t see any point in this if trains from Stratford that have been kept clear of the busy main line all the way to Meridian Water then have to occupy the main line to get to the “dynamic loop” to Ponders End.

They (who ever they are) propose spending 0.X billion on a scheme that delivers nothing apart from congestion.
But 20% more spent to fill the gap & keep the proposed Ponders End terminators completely segregated from the main line would add extra trains without affecting main line or the terminators’ capacity.
 
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cle

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It seems as bitty as the various wires pieces, especially along the TPE.

Surely extending from the new bay (on the eastern side where there is tons of room up to Ponders End ) would make the most sense. But if these trains are terminating at Meridian Water, then I'm not sure what is enabled or what is passed. Perhaps the new frequencies would extend further north with this, but it's unclear. Also, can Stratford handle these (or is this for the existing Bish services) - or is there possibly a sense of LO.

I would think that having Meridian's new platform as through, and then extending up towards Ponders End, would actually allow some meaningful overtaking - but then loses the layover ability with that. Maybe if the 2tph currently terminating there head on north, not an issue.
 
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mr_jrt

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Does anybody know what the planned end goal currently is? For reference, it was once this: 1633781985049.png

What we currently have appears to be the interim scheme. This loop at Ponders End doesn't appear to be part of the eventual end game, unless the loop is looping around a third line that hasn't been built yet?
 
WesternBiker

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The third line currently ends at Meridian Water (which has replaced Angel Road) and Ponders End is currently double-tracked. See: Meridian Water: Live Train Map.

As far as I can see from the proposal, the dynamic loop at Ponders End won't joint up with the existing line, so it'll just be a separate loop on the two-track section. It would be nice to see a track plan of the proposal!
 
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mr_jrt

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Well yes, but given CR2 isn't looking like it's going to happen anytime soon, I meant more in terms of the non-CR2 end game, i.e. more akin to the more limited plans shown above. I am presuming the plan isn't to build this new loop through Ponders End station as that would probably be the most expensive bit, so that would mean the loop south of the station would get within spitting distance of Meridian Water, so seems strange not to link it to the existing third track, though I guess the crossovers would point the wrong way anyway, so not connecting the loop to the third track saves on a set of points and complexity at Meridian Water that would likely rarely see use.
 
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Bald Rick

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The non CR2 end game is this proposal.

Worth noting that this has been developed by Enfield council, not NR. Will be interesting to see what the timetable proposal is and what the performance implications are.
 
306024

306024

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Bald Rick said:
Worth noting that this has been developed by Enfield council, not NR. Will be interesting to see what the timetable proposal is and what the performance implications are.
Click to expand...

That was my thoughts too. The West Anglia timetable doesn’t all revolve around Ponders End :)
 
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