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Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

Tractor37

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Also, a rather different question: How long are platforms 7, 13 & 14 at Leeds? Having seen 3 car 170s & 158s on these platforms, it seems like it would be difficult to fit another 23 meter coach in, so that could mean that the local stopping services out of Leeds that will switch over to electric traction post TRU won’t be able to use 331s or 333s, unless they terminate on a through platform.
Platforms 7 and 13 can fit 4x 23m vehicles. Platform 14 can fit 3x 23m vehicles
 
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YorkshireBear

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I think it's also a case that by the time the electrification is done there might be other units available or other procurement going on. I wouldn't assume it'll just be 331s and 333s. Dipping into speculation now though.

Just about to head via Victoria to Piccadilly on an airport service so will update with any changes, particularly looking out for any more signs of steelwork in the compounds which I need to get a better look at really.
 

59CosG95

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Looking at the press release, it says that train services between Manchester Piccadilly and Stalybridge, as well as Manchester Piccadilly and Hadfield will not run on Sunday the 10th & 17th. What is this for?
I don't know in all honesty. I'd wager it has something to do with Guide Bridge itself; there have been track renewals further down towards Hadfield/Glossop recently, so it could just be that. Then again, it could be related to TRU...who knows!
 

InOban

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It's even possible that they've arranged to have several different bits of work at different sites to avoid repeated closures.
 

YorksLad12

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Looking at the press release, it says that train services between Manchester Piccadilly and Stalybridge, as well as Manchester Piccadilly and Hadfield will not run on Sunday the 10th & 17th. What is this for?

Also, a rather different question: How long are platforms 7, 13 & 14 at Leeds? Having seen 3 car 170s & 158s on these platforms, it seems like it would be difficult to fit another 23 meter coach in, so that could mean that the local stopping services out of Leeds that will switch over to electric traction post TRU won’t be able to use 331s or 333s, unless they terminate on a through platform.
From the Sectional Appendix; 101m, 111m and 80m respectively.

There was a suggestion somewhere of closing 14 to provide more platform space on 15, and the plan to merge 13 & 14 which seems to have been ruled out.
 

Llama

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Leeds p7 - 80m, p13 - 111m, p14 - 101m.
Plus p10 is 99m.
Edit - beaten to it.

Platform 12 west end is only 96m though which is a problem for 4x C3 vehicles.
 

61653 HTAFC

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From the Sectional Appendix; 101m, 111m and 80m respectively.

There was a suggestion somewhere of closing 14 to provide more platform space on 15, and the plan to merge 13 & 14 which seems to have been ruled out.
Good news if the plan to merge 13 & 14 is out. 15 and 16 already feel cut off from the rest of the station, and that would just worsen that impression. The two York-facing bays have always been under-used because of the long-standing insistence on linking random places either side of Leeds, be it Selby and Brighouse or Hull and Halifax.
 

43095john

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First Earth wires are up around Bolton Percy, mainly on the structures between Y747-Y757 Signals on the Down Normanton Line
 

59CosG95

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First Earth wires are up around Bolton Percy, mainly on the structures between Y747-Y757 Signals on the Down Normanton Line
Is it just on the Dn Normanton? I know there's a short stretch around the old station at Bolton Percy where both the Up Normanton & the Dn Normanton will have earth wires.
Y757 is up nearer Brumber Hill; if it is definitely between Y747 & Y757, that would imply that the Up Normanton (the outermost track) has been earth-wired.
 

snowball

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The website that's supposed to track the work between Manchester and Stalybridge is still showing no red, yellow or green, still has no update as promised, still claims the work is 10% done. Not a very useful site.

 

LNW-GW Joint

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Very impressive. It's where the real time and money on these projects goes.
The E&D paper does confirm that the funded scope of the present TRU includes wiring Victoria-Stalybridge, and that the wired route will have W12 clearance (largely from the OHL design).
 

snowball

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Anyone know why various proposed features in the Ravensthorpe area have "Baker" in their names, e.g. Baker Viaduct?
 

Bald Rick

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Anyone know why various proposed features in the Ravensthorpe area have "Baker" in their names, e.g. Baker Viaduct?

Whilst I don’t know, it may be as tribute to the late Stuart Baker, of Rail Atlas and Intercity Express Train fame, and proud Yorkshireman.
 

Halish Railway

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The E&D paper does confirm that the funded scope of the present TRU includes wiring Victoria-Stalybridge, and that the wired route will have W12 clearance (largely from the OHL design).
Which creates questions about the remodelling of Stalybridge’s western throat. Until that’s done will the wires terminate just west of Stalybridge’s western throat or could they just wire platform 5 so that not as much de-wiring and re-wiring will have to be done?

Furthermore, do we even have any idea about when the remodelling work will take place?
 

takno

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Is it just me, or does this TRU seem to be one massive, unorganised botched up farce?
I'd say it's just you. The TRU is an extremely complex multi-stage project scheduled to run for well over 10 years. Sometimes on a project that long the scope and goals of the project will changes, and even if they don't, it's often necessary to do some work which you subsequently end up undoing just because there isn't some perfect order in which everything can be done.
 

snowball

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Which creates questions about the remodelling of Stalybridge’s western throat. Until that’s done will the wires terminate just west of Stalybridge’s western throat or could they just wire platform 5 so that not as much de-wiring and re-wiring will have to be done?
My personal guess remains that for the time being there will be no wires between Stalybridge and the current termination at Bromley Street, half a mile east of Victoria. At present there are no supports, only foundations, in marked contrast to the Barrhead line, to say nothing of Church Fenton.
 
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Brissle Girl

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My personal guess remains that for the time being there will be no wires between Stalybridge and the current termination at Bromley Street, half a mile east of Victoria. At present there are no supports, only foundations, in marked contrast to the Barrhead line, to say nothing of Church Fenton.
But #4696 says wiring is funded? So why would wires not appear in due course. It may just be that until all the foundations are in, work won't start on the metalwork.
 

snowball

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But #4696 says wiring is funded? So why would wires not appear in due course. It may just be that until all the foundations are in, work won't start on the metalwork.
I believe wires will appear in due course, but that contracts awarded to date do not include the wires or stanchions. It would serve no purpose until the layout at Stalybridge is settled.
 

CAF397

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There's a massive works complex appearing between Miles Platting and Baguley Fold box, that is still being populated with materials and buildings. Too late for the remodelling of Miles Platting Jn, and for something more than just piling.

Masts and wires must surely be appearing soon, even if they are unused for a while.
 

Ken H

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There's a massive works complex appearing between Miles Platting and Baguley Fold box, that is still being populated with materials and buildings. Too late for the remodelling of Miles Platting Jn, and for something more than just piling.

Masts and wires must surely be appearing soon, even if they are unused for a while.
They could put em up as far as Ashton U L. At least the bimodes could use them between there and Vic..
 

Nicholas Lewis

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I'd say it's just you. The TRU is an extremely complex multi-stage project scheduled to run for well over 10 years. Sometimes on a project that long the scope and goals of the project will changes, and even if they don't, it's often necessary to do some work which you subsequently end up undoing just because there isn't some perfect order in which everything can be done.
Well given the imminent release of IRP and demise/deferral of HS2 Phase 2b I do hope that TRU is not subject to further changes to what is already being progressed by NR setting the project further back.
 

snowball

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There's a massive works complex appearing between Miles Platting and Baguley Fold box, that is still being populated with materials and buildings. Too late for the remodelling of Miles Platting Jn, and for something more than just piling.

Masts and wires must surely be appearing soon, even if they are unused for a while.
That's very encouraging. I hope my pessimistic view will be proved wrong.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Independent not so positive today

Rail ‘betrayal’ for north and Midlands despite Boris Johnson levelling-up promises

To save money, Rishi Sunak’s Treasury is understood to have blocked demands for an ambitious underground through station in Manchester – an omission that will force trains running across the north to reverse at Piccadilly station, creating a capacity bottleneck for the whole line and adding to journey times.

The government is also expected to rule out including Bradford on the direct route of Northern Powerhouse Rail on cost grounds, despite the city having a population of more than half a million people and being situated between Manchester and Leeds.

Bradford, described by West Yorkshire mayor Tracy Brabin as the “greatest opportunity” for the new route, is an obvious candidate for levelling up of the sort trumpeted by Boris Johnson – the city is the fifth most income-deprived district in England.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Would a reversal in and of itself even be that much of a problem? Reversals will be taking place at Curzon Street, and everyone seems to accept that compromise.

Serving Leeds only via Manchester is much more of a problem than the minutiae of how those trains move within Manchester.
 

snowball

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Would a reversal in and of itself even be that much of a problem? Reversals will be taking place at Curzon Street, and everyone seems to accept that compromise.
Reversals take place at Curzon Street only in the sense that they take place at any terminal station. The delay between arriving and departing is not part of any passenger's journey. At Piccadilly, in the scenario that now seems likely, the time for reversal and pathing delay would be part of every journey between London and Leeds. Even if HS2 NE goes ahead in full, the reversal would be part of every journey between Liverpool and Leeds.
 

Ken H

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Reversals take place at Curzon Street only in the sense that they take place at any terminal station. The delay between arriving and departing is not part of any passenger's journey. At Piccadilly, in the scenario that now seems likely, the time for reversal and pathing delay would be part of every journey between London and Leeds. Even if HS2 NE goes ahead in full, the reversal would be part of every journey between Liverpool and Leeds.
French seem to manage at Marseilles.
 

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