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Health & Social Care Committee Pandemic response report released

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yorksrob

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Why, when there's ample capacity in Europe?

Or is it just about having "British" stamped on them?

Perhaps you must have missed the contractual tug of war that took place over vaccine procurement at the end of last year.

The ability to produce important products not only provides security of supply to ourselves but can also give us the means to assist our friends overseas, which is useful diplomatically.

Or you could just go to sleep and hope that the international free market will rescue you when you're in a tight spot.
 
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philosopher

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I've got news for you....

We just don't have the capability to produce it in the UK.

Hardly like it's caused any issues with how we've stormed ahead with vaccinations.
Isn’t the point of these exercises to find out issues like this so they can be rectified.

Now with Covid, from what I understand the UK has been able to produce some of it’s own vaccines, however with flu vaccines, which this exercise is based on, this I think is not the case.
 

yorksrob

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Isn’t the point of these exercises to find out issues like this so they can be rectified.

Now with Covid, from what I understand the UK has been able to produce some of it’s own vaccines, however with flu vaccines, which this exercise is based on, this I think is not the case.

That is interesting if the case. Given that flu is seasonal in its various forms, the UK ought to have the ability to produce vaccines for that as well, under licence if need be. The capacity to manufacture one should help the ability to manufacture the other.
 

Cdd89

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I am generally a fan of the global free market, but even I think we should be building domestic mRNA vaccine production facilities (including training staff, supply of glass vials, cold chain equipment, and all the other bottle next we’ve been “lucky” enough to learn about in this example) like crazy.

We know this is the way out of this and future pandemics (including in the event of a highly unlikely mutation), given that “lock down until a vaccine” is now apparently accepted pandemic management, we know that when the chips are down other countries look after their own, and we know that we will stop the economy at a cost of hundreds of billions in the absence thereof. I may be falling victim to the availability heuristic, but in relation to that economic cost alone, it is an incredibly cheap insurance policy even if it cost billions.
 

35B

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You seem to assume that all social contacts are equal in transmission, but what if they are not? What if most transmission takes place in healthcare, care homes & in people's homes? What good would a week or two do if this were the case?
If that were, then your observation would be justified. I'm not aware however of any research that suggests such a bias in transmission; nor given what we understand of the transmission of this virus, do I understand how one could spread effectively in those environments but not others in which people are gathered for significant lengths of time.
 

Typhoon

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I am generally a fan of the global free market, but even I think we should be building domestic mRNA vaccine production facilities (including training staff, supply of glass vials, cold chain equipment, and all the other bottle next we’ve been “lucky” enough to learn about in this example) like crazy.

We know this is the way out of this and future pandemics (including in the event of a highly unlikely mutation), given that “lock down until a vaccine” is now apparently accepted pandemic management, we know that when the chips are down other countries look after their own, and we know that we will stop the economy at a cost of hundreds of billions in the absence thereof. I may be falling victim to the availability heuristic, but in relation to that economic cost alone, it is an incredibly cheap insurance policy even if it cost billions.
For years, long before socialism and nationalisation, we had institutions, publicly owned, which developed and manufactured items for the country's defence in times of war because we needed to be able to rely on them. The enemy is no longer a foreign power, but viruses. As you say, we were lucky that scientists, working in our academic institutions, came up with a vaccine. This was a warning, I agree, we need to be prepared for the next time. I, for one, don't want to go through this again.

Different track:
So much so that it is barely even worth noting that Sajid Javid should, in the morning, launch his “rescue plan” for GPs, of which the main focus is a drive to return to face-to-face appointments and then, at lunchtime, at the very last minute, fail to honour a longstanding face-to-face GP appointment of his own, to address the Royal College of General Practitioners’ annual conference.
There may be reasons, but it looks bad. There has been a critical report, you announce a policy and you don't turn up to a meeting with those affected. I can only assume that he is not interested in gaining the support of GPs.

Quote from:Sajid Javid brings back face-to-face appointments with GPs – then fails to show up to his own (msn.com)
 

Yew

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For years, long before socialism and nationalisation, we had institutions, publicly owned, which developed and manufactured items for the country's defence in times of war because we needed to be able to rely on them. The enemy is no longer a foreign power, but viruses. As you say, we were lucky that scientists, working in our academic institutions, came up with a vaccine. This was a warning, I agree, we need to be prepared for the next time. I, for one, don't want to go through this again.
What sort of time period are you thinking of?
 

Typhoon

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What sort of time period are you thinking of?
For what? If you mean our defence provision, the Royal Arsenal was set up in the seventeenth century and survived until the '70s. The Royal Dockyards were going for longer. True, much of the work was carried out by private companies - British ones, but there were institutions that we could fall back on because they were in public - our - hands. There are also a number of defence institutions, some set up after World War I. My point is that going back in the distant past we considered it essential that we were not dependent on others to provide our defence equipment. Nor should we be now.
 

Bantamzen

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If that were, then your observation would be justified. I'm not aware however of any research that suggests such a bias in transmission; nor given what we understand of the transmission of this virus, do I understand how one could spread effectively in those environments but not others in which people are gathered for significant lengths of time.
Quite honestly it seems fairly obvious where the hotspots will be, indeed there was much discussion at the very start about how crazy it was to be tipping elderly people out of hospitals and into care homes, which proved to be a huge cause of infections in the end. To put it bluntly, it is probably why NHS bosses are so keen to blame pretty much everything else and scare people into believing that last / this winter will be unprecedented in crisis levels for them.
 

HSTEd

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What sort of time period are you thinking of?
Well the Royal Dockyards were still building new vessels right up to the launch of HMS Andromeda in 1967.

Or the Royal Ordnance or the Royal Arsenals etc etc etc
 

brad465

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Quite honestly it seems fairly obvious where the hotspots will be, indeed there was much discussion at the very start about how crazy it was to be tipping elderly people out of hospitals and into care homes, which proved to be a huge cause of infections in the end. To put it bluntly, it is probably why NHS bosses are so keen to blame pretty much everything else and scare people into believing that last / this winter will be unprecedented in crisis levels for them.
NHS bosses should be putting their energy about an unprecedented winter into demanding more staff, decent pay and conditions for those staff to help retention and more hospital capacity in general to manage increased demand, not demanding the imposition of restrictions.
 

Bantamzen

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NHS bosses should be putting their energy about an unprecedented winter into demanding more staff, decent pay and conditions for those staff to help retention and more hospital capacity in general to manage increased demand, not demanding the imposition of restrictions.
But it is easier to blame everyone else.
 

Eyersey468

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I agree with @Typhoon, we need to be prepared for the next pandemic. At some point something really nasty will come along that we are unable to make a vaccine for, and I hate to think what we will do then as the events of the last 18 months don't fill me with confidence.
 

PTR 444

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We could totally withstand another pandemic if we had enough hospitals and nurses to take everyone. Think about it, we initially only locked down to “protect the NHS” to stop it from being overwhelmed, so instead of closing business and putting millions on furlough, let’s make our health capacity larger by pumping billions into reopening the Nightingales, training masses of staff on a wartime scale and removing red tape so those already trained from abroad can join them.
 

Darandio

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We could totally withstand another pandemic if we had enough hospitals and nurses to take everyone. Think about it, we initially only locked down to “protect the NHS” to stop it from being overwhelmed, so instead of closing business and putting millions on furlough, let’s make our health capacity larger by pumping billions into reopening the Nightingales, training masses of staff on a wartime scale and removing red tape so those already trained from abroad can join them.

And when that pandemic doesn't happen in the next 5...10...15 years we end up in the amazing situation of massive NHS capacity and waiting lists reduced to near zero. Then something else happens requiring budget cuts and you can bet your bottom dollar what goes first. The NHS is eroded and a pandemic strikes again, we all know the script from there.
 

35B

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Quite honestly it seems fairly obvious where the hotspots will be, indeed there was much discussion at the very start about how crazy it was to be tipping elderly people out of hospitals and into care homes, which proved to be a huge cause of infections in the end. To put it bluntly, it is probably why NHS bosses are so keen to blame pretty much everything else and scare people into believing that last / this winter will be unprecedented in crisis levels for them.
That's true, but your argument rather assumes that it's only to hotspots that are of concern. And, yes, I do think that the treatment of care homes was a disgrace.
 
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